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1547 No. 1547 [Edit]
It doesn't matter if you're a beginner or Dennis Ritchie, come here to talk about what you are doing, your favorite language and all that stuff.
I've been learning python because c++ was too hard for me (I'm sorry nenecchi I failed to you), reached OOP and it feels weird compared to the latter one, anyway I never got it completely.
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>> No. 1549 [Edit]
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1549
I have this irrational perception that I don't want to learn any programming language because I fear it will become obsolete or superseded in the next 5 years. Is there any that almost invariably won't, maybe one in the C family or maybe even Rust?
>> No. 1551 [Edit]
>>1549
C and C++ will practically never be obsolete.
>> No. 1552 [Edit]
>>1549
Try a few and go with the one you like. This "if it gets obsolete then I wasted my time and will have to start from zero" is an unhealthy thinking.
>> No. 1612 [Edit]
>>1549
First of all, a mainstream language won't be obsolete in just 5 years. At worst, it'll take a decade or two, maybe three, before one of these becomes obsolete. And even among niche ones, some will just never die.

Secondly, the time you spent learning a language is never lost. Most language come with a paradigms, idioms, etc. If you can program with one language, then you can pickup a similar one in less than a week (unless you want to be an expert ofc).

Finally, learning a language you might never use isn't a waste of time. Some languages are just really interesting to learn for the sake of it. They change the way you think about programming, teach you to solve problems in a (better) different way, etc.

Most programmers (and every good programmer) know more than one language anyway.
>> No. 1614 [Edit]
>>1612
So, which are the mainstream languages that will take 10-30 years to become obsolete?
>> No. 1615 [Edit]
>>1614
I don't understand why you'd want a language that will die in 30 years when you can pick C and C++ and be set for multiple lifetimes
>> No. 1628 [Edit]
>>1615
Could you please elaborate what you meant? I'm technologically handicapped.
>> No. 1630 [Edit]
>>1628
He means that C and C++ will basically never become obsolete and you should learn those two if you're worried about learning a language that will become obsolete.
>> No. 1631 [Edit]
>>1630
>C and C++ will basically never become obsolete
I understood that, but not as to why. Why won't they become obsolete? Why won't there ever (within realistic expectations) a language that makes them obsolete?
>> No. 1632 [Edit]
>>1631
Because they are so prolific. They have been used for years and years as the base of software. That, and from what limited knowledge I have, they are more basic languages than things like Java or C# or whatever else which are like additions built with C/C++ as the foundation.
>> No. 1638 [Edit]
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1638
I really want to get into an application development language, whether it's Java, C, or C++.

I've almost solely worked with web development languages; HTML, CSS, JS(and jQuery).

I have a tough time deciding which on my own however and I'm out of touch with the best place to start, I'm not even sure what I'd program, beyond very simple games, or desktop applications to automate the bizarre needs I occasionally have.
It's not fair to say I'm completely new to Java, or C++. I did a semester of each in high school and I understand data-types and program-flow, since I've also tried many web-related languages in addition to Javascript.

>>1549
I find it funny how large of a concern this is to new programmers, given how similar high-level languages are to each-other. It's a question born of ignorance. Taken at face level, if you really wanted a language that will never go obsolete try Assembly, or even better, binary.
C, and C++ have atleast another 30 years left in them. No other languages provide a closer to the metal approach and unparalleled performance in addition to a mountain of software libraries accumulated over the years.
Rust still seems like fanboy vaporware to me at this point. There's a lot of hype, but I've yet to download any software using it, and even the most competent Rust guy I know says it's not ready for serious deployment. It's the new Haskell / LISP.

That being said, it's surprising how fast web-based languages and libraries die a quick and morbid death, only to be replaced by something nearly identical, almost immediately after.
>> No. 1640 [Edit]
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1640
>>1638
>I find it funny how large of a concern this is to new programmers
Oh, I'm not a programmer at all. I used to dabble in web design when css was just emerging, and I recall hating having to stick with formatting. After a while, I stopped practicing, since I disliked the moving from html to css and whatever knowledge I had of anything faded away. I'm just someone who would like to find a solution to the eternal problem of having to leave the house to work, and seems like learning programming can alleviate that.
>It's a question born of ignorance.
Indeed.
>try Assembly, or even better, binary.
>C, and C++ have atleast another 30 years left in them.
What I also meant by the frustration of language-learning and the possibility of becoming obsolete is personal intellegence boundaries. I'm not that smart, and math itself was never my forte. I'm skilled in organization and finding things in a sea of other things but that doesn't mean I can just throw myself in learning binary and achive whatever goals I can with it.

Considering even non-amateur programmers go for "easier?" options rather than C or C++ (what happened to C+?) I assume you need to have certain dispositions or certain levels of intelligence many don't have.

So, I guess I could rephrase my original question into: If I were to start today, with what language could I end up achieving from-house working in X amount of time, with average intelligence? X being whatever it takes to be proficient enough to get jobs with it.
>> No. 1644 [Edit]
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1644
Hikikomori here i'm trying to find a way to make money from home without going outside what programming language do you guys recommend for beginners??.
>> No. 1648 [Edit]
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1648
>>1644

start from the beginning, learn LISP with SICP.

you will be competing with freelancers from the 3rd world, who are incapable of thinking critically. You need to learn how to code, not how to write in a language. You'll have to learn the language, yes, but that is secondary to what is most important.

Being able to speak fluent english gives you a bit of an advantage, and make sure to get a github account up and going (and contributing at a REGULAR AND CONSISTENT RATE).
>> No. 1657 [Edit]
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1657
>>1648
>You need to learn how to code, not how to write in a language.
Does this apply to the suggestion an anon made about learning Assembly? Or this that a brainlet filter?
>and contributing at a REGULAR AND CONSISTENT RATE
Not really that acquainted with github. Do you mean commitments (updates) or actually engaging with other people and their projects there?
>> No. 1665 [Edit]
>>1657
Abelson (or is that Sussman?) begins the MIT course on computer science by saying that 'computer science' is a terrible name for the subject.
Firstly it's not a science, it's more close to engineering or art. Second it's not really about computers, because the computer is but a tool for you.
Then he contrasts computer science to math by showing an equation for what a square root is, and notes that though the equation is correct it doesn't really tell you how to find one. He then shows a program that can find a square root of a number.
What programming really is about is giving precise instructions so that an abstract system can execute or compute them. The system is called a computer, but here that term defines a use for it, not the box you usually think of when encountering the word.
And understanding this fundamental idea of giving instructions is more important than any language or hardware that implements an environment where you're going to put the ideas into use.

I can't expand on Anon's suggestions about github, but it sounds like good advice. Your github page can be treated like a resume, so gather proof of your experience there. Git is also almost necessary for working on actual projects.
One thing you could also do is bounty hunting. People place bounties on software features they want to see. And then you can try to make a successful startup and sell out or something
>> No. 1666 [Edit]
>>1665
Thanks for the reply, I loved the way you explained it. What would you call Computer Science if you were given the power and authority to change it forever?
>> No. 1672 [Edit]
>>1631
Because money. COBOL is probably the most hated language of history. And it still exists, not only in the form of legacy code bases that nobody has the money, time or skill to replace, but some people just can't let it die (I'm looking at you IBM).

Languages such as C and C++ have been very, very, very popular. And it'd be impossible to replace all the software, libraries, etc. written in them in just 3 decades. They are also very robust, which makes them even harder to replace since they still werk.

But that's not the only reason. Nearly all mainstream languages are from what we call the "C-family", they all are heavily inspired from C and look very close to each other (if you don't have any experience with languages of other families you might not see what I mean, as you probably think that C and python are totally opposite that have little to nothing in common). Therefore learning one lets you pick up others of the C-family fairly quickly. Just for the sake of teaching, they will never really disappear. C is a really really simple language, the syntax can be learned very very quickly, and you get to learn a lot of core concepts of programming without having to worry about lots of boilerplate that means nothing to you (yet). C/++ will stay relevant for at least another 50years. Probably 100, because you'd also have to wait until all the stubborn programmers of these languages die out...
>> No. 1680 [Edit]
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1680
Pick one.
>> No. 1681 [Edit]
>>1680
C
>> No. 1682 [Edit]
>>1680
A toss-up between C++ or VB, the latter because she's cutest and looks lonely, and the former because it's a langauge I actually use.

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