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1547 No. 1547 [Edit]
It doesn't matter if you're a beginner or Dennis Ritchie, come here to talk about what you are doing, your favorite language and all that stuff.
I've been learning python because c++ was too hard for me (I'm sorry nenecchi I failed to you), reached OOP and it feels weird compared to the latter one, anyway I never got it completely.
46 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
>> No. 2031 [Edit]
Do you think masturbation could help you in an interview? I have to try that one.
>> No. 2032 [Edit]
I want to hear people's opinions on Rust. Things like ripgrep have piqued my interest.

Yes, there's no better way to assert your dominance.
On the other hand, you could end up as a sex offender.
>> No. 2033 [Edit]
Ripgrep is very nice (in fact all tools by that author are very handy).
There was also a brief discussion of rust in /ot/ (

I think there's a lot of neat ideas there from a PL theory perspective (enforced lifetime tracking) and a practical (succinct, helpful compiler messages). I'd like to see them make their way to c++ as well (llvm community is doing some work on improving static analyzers).
>> No. 2034 [Edit]
I'm not sure any of this can be brought into cpp, the language has so much legacy and so many features so at this point it is nigh impossible to add anything without breaking at least *something*.
And PL theory, sadly, goes against good error messages, well Standard ML and OCaml have lean and mean error messages, while Haskell is just horrendous in this regard, and when you add advanced type level features into the mix. Well, you now can compare errors (at least in kilobytes) to ones you get from templates in cpp.
>> No. 2035 [Edit]
Apparently Rust's type system is formalized via the notion of affine types, where every variable can be used at most once. There are also linear types where a variable can be used exactly once. Wikipedia gives C++'s unique_ptr as an example of a linear type, but to me it seems like an affine type instead since you can always choose to discard it (just let it go out of scope).

It's also not clear to me why they're called linear/affine.
>> No. 2044 [Edit]
They are called so because they came from Linear/Affine branches of logic, where you can use proofs once/at most once.
>> No. 2051 [Edit]
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I made this hashmap for up to 8 characters in c by deferencing the strings.
Probably useless but I think it's pretty funny.
>> No. 2052 [Edit]
Oh I think I understood what's going on there. I was confused at first because you mentioned hashmap, but what it's doing is re-interpreting the sequence of bytes "Cat....." or "Hello..." as an int64, which can be thought of as a pseudo-"hash". It's more like a fixed lookup table, and an interesting way of working around the fact that C doesn't support switch statements on strings.
>> No. 2053 [Edit]
Oh yeah I didn't even map any values.
No matter. I just looked at the assembly and no matter how many cases I add it still ends up being just a series of if statements, so it is completely useless!
>> No. 2054 [Edit]
Did you compile with -O2/-O3? I'm pretty sure that past some point compilers will use binary decision trees for the branching instead of sequential conditionals. But again there's not much point to this as you're better off using a proper hash function anyway.
>> No. 2055 [Edit]
The optimization flags do actually make it work, thanks for that.
Yeah it's pointless, I just think playing with pointers is fun.
>> No. 2063 [Edit]
I decided I wanted to make an elaborated strip poker game where the other players are JCs and JKs. Then I realised the hardest part isn't programming but making the art. Very sad.
>> No. 2069 [Edit]
I'm creating a CLI program that downloads manga chapters from MangaDex. As of right now, one may specify criteria for determining which chapters of manga to download. Qualities such as chapter #, volume #, language (to which the chapter was translated), and groups' names.
One may also provide a template or output mask for the downloaded chapter archive's filename. For example, the default output mask is "{title} - c{chapter} (v{volume}) [{groups}]"; thus, given the first English chapter of Forget-me-not, the resultant filename would be "Forget-me-not - c001 (v01) [Hanashi].cbz". (Currently, zip files are the only supported format.)
Further, one may set the program's user agent and delay between requests. The initial option for the latter is two seconds to ensure that one is not blocked.

After I add support for different packaging, packaging by volume, finalizing the CLI, and providing helpful end-user documentation, I plan to refactor and rewrite a good portion of the code. One module is needlessly complex and template-heavy, and other files need better documentation. If anybody would like to try using it, please let me know! As you can infer, the software is still in development, but I've used it a few times for my own archival needs.
>> No. 2070 [Edit]
I also need to determine how the program responds to overly long filenames on Windows. Considering that a manga's (or chapter's) title will be the usual culprit, I believe that shortening that and adding ellipsis would be a decent solution. (One may specify a setting in the group policy or the registry to remove the path limitation, but that seems burdensome for the end user.)
>> No. 2071 [Edit]
> needlessly complex and template-heavy
By template-heavy you don't mean C++ templates, do you? As much as I hate to be the one suggesting languages, this seems like a place where python would shine given the ease with which you can parse webpages in it.
>> No. 2072 [Edit]
Why would that be necessary? You can hover your mouse over any file name and see the full thing in a box that appears.

Post edited on 19th Oct 2020, 6:35am
>> No. 2073 [Edit]
>By template-heavy you don't mean C++ templates, do you?
I'm using D whose templates are actually programmer-friendly, and it's only template-heavy because I wanted to test some ideas.

>this seems like a place where python would shine given the ease with which you can parse webpages in it.
Python would probably be a fine alternative, but I'm directly calling MangaDex's APIs; only JSON must be parsed, and D has that capability in the stdlib. Even if I must deal with HTML, there is an awesome D library that implements much of the JavaScript DOM library and interface.

>Why would that be necessary? You can hover your mouse over any file name and see the full thing in a box that appears.
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, from my experience, if a file's path (i.e. filename + the folder hierarchy in which it's nested) is too long, you may not meaningfully interact with it. A few times in a past, I had to boot my PC into a Linux environment so that I may rename, move, or delete the offending files.

Post edited on 19th Oct 2020, 7:36am
>> No. 2074 [Edit]
Ah neat, I've played around with D and it seemed quite nice – although I haven't been able to find a personal niche for it in my own work. I also didn't know mangadex had an api!

With regard to the path limits, I recall reading somewhere that even if you don't flip the registry flag to enable long paths globally, there's a way to call into win32 apis directly and force use of long paths via some suffix. I have done zero win32 development though so I can't comment much further on that though. If it's a significant enough issue maybe you could just target linux and use WSL to run it on windows?
>> No. 2075 [Edit]
>Ah neat, I've played around with D and it seemed quite nice – although I haven't been able to find a personal niche for it in my own work.
Yeah, I feel its general-purpose nature is both a blessing and a curse. Its meta-programming capabilities is pretty nice, though.

>I also didn't know mangadex had an api!
As did I. My initial client implementation parsed the webpages, but after a cursory glance in my web console, I discovered its existence. I do wonder how long it's existed.

>With regard to the path limits, I recall reading somewhere that even if you don't flip the registry flag to enable long paths globally, there's a way to call into win32 apis directly and force use of long paths via some suffix.
You are correct: one prefixes the filename with a sequence of characters to bypass the limitations. However, if I read the docs correctly, there's some quirks with it. It'll take some experimentation.

>If it's a significant enough issue maybe you could just target linux and use WSL to run it on windows?
I don't think it'll come to that. Abbreviating the filename or applying the filename-prefix should be suitable. Plus, Windows is my main driver, and I'd like to have this program run natively.
>> No. 2082 [Edit]
I've been trying to conjure a design by which structs (i.e. aggregate value types) may be dealt with like classes and interfaces. An obvious answer is structural typing via meta-programming. However, tunnel vision is quite potent.
>> No. 2085 [Edit]
> structural typing via meta-programming
Can you explain what you mean by this? For simulating OO in C via structs, the solution I've usually seen involves including the base class as the member of the derived classes so you can manually cast back and forth, and then essentially manually implementing the vtable to get the polymorphism.
>> No. 2087 [Edit]
What I mean is that, given a function that has a parameter of type T, only operate on a subset of members specified by T; as long as a struct defines those members, then from the viewpoint of the function, it's considered equivalent to other types that do the same. (In the light of this description, I retract my solution's description: it's closer to duck typing than structural typing.)
>> No. 2088 [Edit]
Yeah ok that makes sense. It's annoying in C though because you also need the same layout of the structs, which is why as I mentioned most people just include the base struct as the first member.
>> No. 2089 [Edit]
I assume you're referring to something like this, right? (Sans encapsulating the parent's fields.)

#include "stdio.h"
#include "string.h"

struct Widget
int id;

struct FooWidget
int id;
char* text;

void process(struct Widget *widget)
printf("%d\n", (*widget).id);

int main(void)
struct FooWidget foo;
memset(&foo, 0, sizeof(foo));
process((struct Widget*)&foo);

>> No. 2090 [Edit]
Yeah exactly that's the idea. Although in the approach I mentioned you would do

struct FooWidget
struct Widget base;
char* text;

so that way you don't have to repeat all of the parent's members (and it also avoids issues regarding struct packing/alignment). A lot of codebases I've seen will in particular do this for logging, where all of the "inherited" classes will share the same first member and then the "logId()" macro or whatever can just case to that shared "base" that is the first member and extract out the id.

You can also go further and implement function polymorphism, not just member sharing, by manually passing around vtables like in the below example (since there's just one function I don't have a separate vtable member – I just put the function inline).

struct BaseWidget {
int id;
void (*dump)(struct BaseWidget *self);

struct ExtendedWidget {
struct BaseWidget base;
char* extra;

void dumpBase(struct BaseWidget *self) {
printf("BASE: %d\n", self->id);

void dumpExtended(struct BaseWidget *self) {
printf("DERIVED: %s", ((struct ExtendedWidget*) self)->extra);

void dump(struct BaseWidget *widget) {

int main(int argc, char *argv[]) {
struct BaseWidget base = {.id = 3, .dump = dumpBase};

struct ExtendedWidget derived; = 4;
derived.base.dump = dumpExtended;
derived.extra = "foobar";

struct BaseWidget *baseThatIsExtended = (struct BaseWidget *) &derived;


>> No. 2091 [Edit]
Neat. But Haruhi damn, I hate C's syntax for function pointers.
>> No. 2092 [Edit]
This is why nobody pays me to program.

struct MaskContext(string name, Placeholders...)
if(Placeholders.length > 0 && allSatisfy!(isPlaceholder, Placeholders))
alias RequiredPlaceholders = Filter!(isPlaceholderRequired, Placeholders);
alias RequiredParams = staticMap!(PlaceholderType, RequiredPlaceholders);
alias AllParams = staticMap!(PlaceholderType, Placeholders);

/// Constructor for all placeholder fields.
this(AllParams params)
static foreach (i, P; Placeholders)
__traits(getMember, placeholders, P.identifier) = params[i];

static if (RequiredPlaceholders.length > 0)
/// Constructor for only required placeholder fields.
this(RequiredParams params)
static foreach (i, P; RequiredPlaceholders)
__traits(getMember, placeholders, P.identifier) = params[i];

// ヽ( ̄~ ̄ )ノ

And yet, it works!
>> No. 2093 [Edit]
Due to circumstances, I've returned to C++ after many, many years, and I must say that I have no idea what the fucking I'm doing. Groking its template metaprogramming is difficult after enjoying D's relative simplicity; no universal implicit initialization, move semantics, and ugly syntax are a thorn in my side; and no modules (for GCC, anyway) kills the soul. And yet, I'm having fun (with valgrind by my side). Plus, I get to re-enjoy Scott Meyers' talks and writings--always a good time.
>> No. 2094 [Edit]
No built-in unittesting is saddening, too.
>> No. 2095 [Edit]
There is now "concepts" with C++20, it helps with templates a lot.
>> No. 2096 [Edit]
Indeed. Template constraints are a great feature in D, and it seems concepts might be more powerful. However, as usual, C++'s take seems rather ugly.
>> No. 2097 [Edit]
I wish SFINAE (and the hell that is has enabled) would never have existed.
>> No. 2098 [Edit]
It's certainly antiquated now, it seems.

Also, consider this:

template<typename... Args, typename LastArg, typename = void>
void foo(LastArg arg)
// ...
foo<int, float>("Hello, world!");

I'm glad type inference with variadic template parameters is possible, but it's so odd. Cursory searches haven't revealed much about "typename = void", and cppreference (from where I learned this) doesn't go into detail.

Meanwhile, in D:

template foo(Args...)
void foo(LastArg)(LastArg arg)
// ...
foo!(int, float)("Hello, world!");

Readability at the cost of two template instantiations (unless this can be optimized), but I prefer it.
>> No. 2099 [Edit]
At first I was excited about constexpr, but it's stupidly limited: only "literal types" are supported, and "if constexpr" must be placed in function scope. So if you want a compile-time std::string (Working with char{*|[]} kills the soul.) or a replacement for the pre-processor, you're out of luck. Instead, I have to conjure up some tricks to workaround these issues, and even that's not satisfactory. And here I thought C++ was catching up to D.
>> No. 2107 [Edit]
With C++20 most of the limitations with constexpr are fixed. (std::string and std::vector work now too.) There is also "constinit" and other new features. Read through them.
>> No. 2108 [Edit]
>LISP is slow
I hate this stigma that Lisp is somehow "slow" when it's absolutely not. SBCL can already produce images that are as fast, if not faster, than GCC if you can be clever enough. Now I will say writing Lisp to be as fast as C is a major pain, if you want to write fast code you should use Chicken (which lets you drop down into C at anytime) or just use C.
I think this idea of Lisp being slow comes from it being a LISt Processor where everything is a "linked" list, and that these lists have an O(n) access time. Honestly with today's machines (2000s and on), I would think that they're fast enough to compensate for this, not to mention that most dialects allow you to use vectors for when you're dealing with a truly large amount of data.
One more think I would like to add, that really gives Lisp the edge over most languages, is that programs are treated the same as regular data; that is programs can be manipulated just as regular data can. Long story short, Lisp machines, and Lisp instruction sets/architectures are near trivial to design and give the programmer, and user, some major benefits (not just speed). If you want to read more on this, I would suggest Guy Steele's paper "Design of LISP-based Processors".
>> No. 2109 [Edit]
SBCL is pretty amazing. You can see this quantitatively in [1] where Lisp is within an order of magnitude of C's performance. In fact a lot of people's ideas about "fast" languages are out of date. I've heard people call Java a "slow" language, but it's really quite performant (thanks to a lot of effort put into hotspot jit).

>> No. 2110 [Edit]
Thanks for the information. I had assumed that my toolchain was limited to C++17, but it seems GCC 10 is supported. Pretty excited to see how much of the pre-processor I can replace. The dream, however, is to convert the platform's system headers to D modules, and get GDC working. Don't know if I have the knowledge for the latter, though.
>> No. 2111 [Edit]
What do you guys think about a function that reads command-line options into a struct? The following is its documentation:

Parses command-line arguments that match the given `CLIOption`s into a struct and returns it.

- Options = A sequence of `CLIOption` instantiations.
- args = The command-line arguments passed into the program.

Returns: A struct composed of two fields: `values` and `helpWanted`. The former is another struct whose fields' identifiers and values are derived from the passed `CLIOption` instantiations. The latter signals whether -h|--help were specified--just like with `std.getopt`.

P.S. I wish we had a code tag, e.g.

Post edited on 25th Nov 2020, 6:32pm
>> No. 2112 [Edit]
I'm not sure if I fully understand what you're going for. Can you dynamically create fields in a struct? And what would be the advantage over returning a dictionary(/map)?

Incidentally I wish that all languages had something like Python's argparse. That's always been a pleasure to use and it handles all the common use-cases (required flags, optional flags, lists, etc.)
>> No. 2113 [Edit]
>Can you dynamically create fields in a struct?
Fields are "mixed in" at compile-time. So the type is fully defined at runtime.

>And what would be the advantage over returning a dictionary(/map)
Since I'm programming D, and D is statically typed, the value type of a dictionary would have to be a variant--which would introduce some friction. I could also hack together a solution with `TypeInfo`, but I'm not too keen on that.

>Incidentally I wish that all languages had something like Python's argparse.
Never used it as I rarely program in Python, but it does seem nice after reading the docs. I'll have to borrow some of its ideas.

My `parseArgs` function is built upon D's std.getopt, as the latter doesn't promote structure, in my opinion.

Usage: calc numbers [options]

Takes a list of numbers separated by whitespace, performs a mathematical operation on them, and prints the result.
The default operation is addition.

// Usually a bad idea like `using namespace std;`
import std;

// Default Value | long and short names | Optional argument that specifies the option's description in the help text.
alias OperationOpt = CLIOption!("add", "operation|o", CLIOptionDesc("The operation to perform on input (add|sub)"));
// Same as above except we specify a type instead of a value. The option's default value will resolve to its type's initial value, which would be `false` in D.
alias VerboseOpt = CLIOption!(bool, "verbose|v", CLIOptionDesc("Prints diagnostics"));

// -h|--help are automatically dealt with
auto result = parseArgs!(OperationOpt, VerboseOpt)(args);
if (result.helpWanted) { result.writeHelp; return; }
auto nums = args[1..$]; // Let's just assume that the user actually entered in at least one number.

// An option's long name is the identifier in `values`. The implication is that long names must be also be D identifiers. However, I've ensured that common option names like `long-name` are resolved to `longname`. However, more bespoke option names will trigger a compiler error with a helpful message. This would not be a problem if `values` were an associative array whose keys are strings.
switch (result.values.operation)
// Assume the variadic functions, `add` and `sub`, are defined.
case "add": add(nums).writeln; break;
case "sub": sub(nums).writeln; break;
default: writefln!"Operation '%s' is not supported"(result.values.operation); result.writeHelp;

Three problems with my function and its associated templates:
1. I'd like `CLIOption` to take functions as a type. `std.getopt` can do this, but I've had issues creating a higher-level interface with this in mind. This is mostly due with how I designed things.
2. `parseArgs` should handle more than options, like `argparse`. After all, if it doesn't, mine should merely be called `parseOpts`.
3. I suck at programming.
>> No. 2114 [Edit]
Ah neat that makes sense. Having not used D before, I was only vaguely aware of mixins. (It seems the definition of "mixin" being used here is slightly different than the conventional definition used in object-oriented languages? I've seen mixins in e.g. python/scala and there it's more akin to interfaces with default methods. But in D it seems it's a bit broader and more like templates, with support for compile-time preprocessing?)

>the value type of a dictionary would have to be a variant
Yeah most of the argument parsers I've seen in C++ deal with this by requiring you to manually cast any values that you access into the proper type. (There's also the gflags/abseil style argument libraries where you declare the variable you want to place the result into upfront. That works around the above issue, but on the flipside it's ugly and overkill for small projects). Creating a properly typed struct at compile-time would be a lot cleaner and safer.
>> No. 2115 [Edit]
D has two types of mixins: string and template. The former embeds a string containing valid D statements and/or expressions into the code: `mixin("int foo = ", 42, ";");` -> `int foo = 42;`. This must be done at compile-time, and any variables passed into the `mixin` statement must be readable at compile-time.
Then there's template mixins; these are more like traditional mixins found in OOP languages, except, as you've mentioned, they may be parameterized with types, symbols, and values. They are "mixed in" with the `mixin` statement: `mixin SomeDefinitions!42;` If `SomeDefinitions` had a definition, `int foo = value`, where `value` is a template parameter, then said definition will be accessible from the scope in which the template was mixed, and `value` is substituted for `42`. This is in contrast to a normal D template where its definitions, after instantiation, reside in their own scope accessible through a symbol.
These given examples are rather trivial, and don't do these features justice. For command-line argument parsing library, I use string mixins to generate new structs at compile-time, and utilize mixin templates to factor out common definitions and compile-time processing. Further, there are D CGI libraries that expose template mixins that do all the setup drudgery, e.g. provide a `main()` and environment variable processing.

As an aside, D allows you to defines strings with `q{}`, where the strings' contents are placed between the curly braces. This indicates to a text editor, IDE, or whatever to treat the strings' contents as if it were D code (or any code, I suppose): highlight it, provide code inspection capabilities, etc. These are helpful with string mixins.

>(There's also the gflags/abseil style argument libraries where you declare the variable you want to place the result into upfront. That works around the above issue, but on the flipside it's ugly and overkill for small projects).
I looked at them. I feel a little sick.
>> No. 2116 [Edit]
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Alright, so I'm re-working that argument parsing thing, and funnily enough, template mixins have been a big help in refactoring. Combine that with better and more succinct solutions to previous problems, the design is a lot cleaner. Documentation is better, too. With that said, I'm not sure the best way to handle options' "optional" metadata:

alias VerboseOpt = Option!("verbose|v", false, OptionDesc("Garrulous logging") /* etc... */);

`OptionDesc` is one such piece of metadata. Right now, the `Option` template will pass the given variable-length list of metadata to a mixin template that will then define the appropriate fields. Thus, in the given example, a field of type `string`, whose identifier is `desc`, and with a value of "Garrulous logging" will have been defined in this instantiation of `Option`, i.e. `VerboseOpt`. The problem is that `parseArgs` will have to do some compile-time inspection on every `Option` instantiation to determine whether it has a description, i.e. a `desc` field; using the data therein or providing default values in the field's absence. This is not ideal for compilation times and for the code's clarity as this also extends to other pieces of metadata like `OptionCategory` or `OptionRequired`. It's not terrible, but again, not ideal. I have a better solution in mind, but a clean implementation of it is difficult for my moronic mind.
>> No. 2117 [Edit]
File 160705909858.jpg - (185.24KB , 1280x720 , !.jpg )
Continuing my work on my command-line argument processing library (Now called "tsuruya" because naming is hard.), I have realized happiness through the digital world instead of just the 2D one.
Here's an example:

auto args = ["./test", "1", "2", "3"];
auto result = args.parseArgs!(Parameter!("integers", int[]));
assert(result.parameters.integers == [1, 2, 3]);
assert(result.usageText == "Usage: test <integers>");

`parseArgs` is instantiated with a `Parameter` struct template whose name, both in the generated programming interface and command-line interface, is "integers". By specifying the type of the parameter's value as a dynamic array of integers, `parseArgs` will read all non-option command-line arguments; convert them to `int`; and then add them to the parameter's array. (As an aside, if one were to specify a static array, `parseArgs` will only read k-number of non-option command-line arguments, where k is the static array's length.) A usage string is also generated based on what parameters and options (collectively known as "command-line interface objects") were given to `parseArgs`.
`Parameter` may also take a callable object, e.g. function, instead of a type, and the value it expects will be that of the callable object's return type. Further, one may pass optional metadata to `Parameter` just like one may do with `Option`, e.g. CLIODesc and CLIORequired. The former defines a description for a command-line interface object that may be used in `parseArgs`'s generated help text. The latter specifies whether the parameter or option is, well, required to be in the command-line arguments.
>> No. 2118 [Edit]
>(collectively known as "command-line interface objects")
I scrapped this stupidity and renamed the `Parameter` templates to `Operand`, since that's what they actually represent. After all, a parameter would include options too and thus confusion. Anyway, on to error handling and all that fun that entails.
>> No. 2119 [Edit]
Oh how I wish for mutability during compile-time. The amount of recursive templates upon which I'm relying is making me sweat a bit.
>> No. 2193 [Edit]
I was trying to get a program I always use to do something for python 2.7 and it wasn't supported anymore. Looking up the changelog discussions, I saw a poster say "We shouldn't support such ancient distros". Christ... it's really bizarre to me just how much the attitude among programmers is now. Granted, decade old software tends to be forgotten, but I have a hard time thinking of 2010 as "ancient", even as far as tech goes. Guess this is just me griping, but damn. I thought python 3.3 and 2.7 were still being used on the same systems.
>> No. 2194 [Edit]
What a mess the python 2->3 transition was. Whose boneheaded idea was it to make things non-backwards compatible.
>> No. 2195 [Edit]
>Whose boneheaded idea was it to make things non-backwards compatible.
I don't know, but there's a growing philosophy that old digital technologies should be forcefully cut out from any currently updated projects. Windows 10 for example has some serious fundamental flaws that make windows 7 look comparatively like a masterpiece, yet it's being prioritized so heavily that now people are cutting windows 7 support from their projects. This in particular is infuriating, to especially because when I'm not on a linux machine I want to use windows 7. In my brief stint with windows 10 I discovered some horrific design flaws regarding path variables, registries, and worst of all administrator permissions. As it turns out it is relatively easy on windows 10 for a file to revoke absolutely and forever any access to any users including the system user itself. This is, particularly, unpleasant when said file is malware.
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