While Chans, IRC and the melting pots of old withered and died or morphed into an unholy union of $current_times, there still remain a few of us, left scattered and isolated in the dying Protocols and haunts of nostalgia. But not for long - many among us that lack Fortitude will pass into the high walls of the deceptively greener gardens of social media. They will thus be afflicted by means of mental manipulation and trickery, turning them into beasts lacking Virtues that made the Internet great. A "normie". A most vile and foolish creature that has naught for Fellow Man; an existence whose raison d'etre is to tilt at the perpetually spinning windmills of Labor for a pittance of vapid mass consumption culture spewed by the Satanic Mills of Mammon. Woe, for we shall all go into the night alone.

I used to be a weeb. Not anymore. I think the last time I watched anime was around 2014ish? I guess I'm just visiting old sites for the sake of nostalgia.

I think I've kind of grown out of weeb shit.

The older people get, the more likely they are to:
-Commit suicide
-Die from other causes
-Have health problems that make them tired
-Have less free time due to work
-Have less free time due to having a family
-Develop different hobbies than the ones they used to have

All in all, that leads to less people spending time on hobbies they had when they were younger.

So things like forums or image boards die off, especially when most people just stick to Facebook/Twitter/Instagram/Reddit.

>>23463
I do wonder now and then where all the older otaku. Where do they hang around? Do they hide in plain sight? They sigh and just join such places like discord and withstand all that putrefaction just so they can share a topic once in a blue moon? I have no idea. If I were to base the answer on myself, then it's much simpler: I see little point in sharing. Each passing year I realize how many people treat anime / manga / games / visual novels like chores they have to complete or things to scratch off a list for the sake of fake worth points or something. I even often encounter people who seem to only watch anime because they feel that's "their thing" like some mindless drone, a different flavour of normal. If I go by that metric, then it's no wonder older otaku keep to themselves, with age this pastime because much more of a personal thing.
>>23464
I don't think normaldry is something that can be acquired.

>>23467
>because they feel that's "their thing" like some mindless drone,

I don't think that's mindless. I think people are naturally competitive. And when someone gets into something, they feel like they're personally invested into it. It reflects who they are, or at least that's what some people think.

Sunk cost fallacy:
https://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/03/25/the-sunk-cost-fallacy/
Basically, "I've put a lot of time/effort/money into it, therefore I can't give it up now." Very common thing.

Additionally, with the advent of social media, where people can show off to each other (or feel bad about seeing how successful other people's lives are), people want to be competitive in their lives, with hobbies or whatever. People don't want to just be some average baseball fan, or some average anime fan. They want to stand out and be special, rather than admit that they're just one insignificant person out of billions of people on a tiny planet in the vastness of space in a pointless universe. People want to feel important and better than average, no matter what it is that they do.

Books on zen and meditation can help with letting you just be more okay with doing nothing, or not thinking, or not comparing yourself to other people. Sometimes it's good to just exist. But it's understandable why people try so hard to be really good at something.

>>23463
You fell through the cracks, OP. No, they didn't killed themselves for the most part. I'm 31 and for about 5 years during the early 2000s I happened to be a forum admin for a reasonably sizeable anime/weeb community. About 200 or so closely knit group of people. From that 200 sample, here's the info I can give you.

Half of them were done with anime before reaching their 20s. They eventually got into relationships, had kids, etc. Moved on with their lives, many of them even before the forum closed down. Their main source of entertainment shifted to video-games (all the shit ones as you can imagine) or even regular sports. The other half still had a passing interest in anime but not enough to provide a reason for bonding over it. They did their bonds when they were 12, 13, 14, 15 years old. When we closed the forum all those people had added each other on msn, facebook, skype by then. Of course they all were using their real names and real pictures and that was about the time I began to fall through the cracks as well. Then smartphones came around and I know many of them have a common chat on whatsapp and continue to be buddies or at least have a way to contact each other. At this point, people my age are pretty much out of reach, so to speak. They are off to their own bubble and inner networking.

Here's the thing with that. This is also a response to >>23467. Most people in their 30s have no clue what an imageboard even is. Back when we were teens, we just used forums. IBs would probably feel like a shitty forum to many of them. Most people my age are locked behind private profiles on current social media vehicle or whatever smartphone chat application nowadays. If they do meet new people online, it's through dating apps. I know many use those.

Then there's me. And you. Old folk that for whatever reason managed to keep finding strange places to hang out like IBs, and for whatever reason stuck with it. I don't feel younger people invaded us however. I feel it's quite the opposite actually. We're the ones trespassing. Our communities died or moved on and we didn't follow the stream. Now, I'm sure you have your own reasons to have that happening to you. I know I have mine.

>>23470
Well that's a depressing read. I guessed as much with the FB thing but could never bring myself to join it. If it makes you feel better this community is run by a wizard who's not likely to close it down any time soon.

>>23468
I don't see how the sunk cost fallacy plays in this regard because the issue isn't that they don't have a choice of entertainment. They can just watch something else instead. It isn't like a videogame where you have a tangible invest you can see and feel. Plus, even if you're right, there are thousands of anime series, movies, OVAs, etc. that you can watch, so why indulge in what you don't enjoy just because you feel pressure to do so for the sake of identity?
>>23470
>They are off to their own bubble and inner networking.
That's a good point, although I don't see why there was any reason to close the forum. Plus, if so many so easily shifted interests, can they really be called otaku?

For me the odd thing is how young most people who watch anime are. I didn't even get into anime until I was 17, and even then it took me until I was 18 or so to actually understand enough about my new passion to know what it was, what thins I liked, etc. It's bizarre for me to imagine watching anime at such a young age, to not even be out of middle school while watching it.

>>23660
I don't see how it's odd at all unless you're seeing it as some sort of silly "higher form of art". For example, I started watching anime in the 90s, before it was even named like that internationally, with Mazinger Z and several Tatsunoko series like Time Bokan and Tondera Hausu no Daibōken, amongst dozens of other shows, alongside tokusatsu series like Kidō Keiji Jiban, Choushinsei Flashman and Choujuu Sentai Liveman. Then Power Rangers appeared from and Saiban's corporately dubbed-anime, which everyone just called cartoons. Until the end of the millennium, with Dragon Ball Z (anime came much later than when it aired originally in Japan, obviously) I didn't know what anime was and it was just known as "Chinese cartoons" with the most respectful of us correcting the plebs and saying "Japanese cartoons", but after that and the appearance or knowledge of otaku culture in general, is when most people seemed to get into anime as its own and specific form, with people making anime clubs, searching for VHS tapes, stalking local "black" markets for imported cheap figures, and so on.

Currently, with the sad and pathetic decline of western animation, anime is seen as more of a distinction, for an animation enthusiast, that divides the people with taste and those without. Point being, watching anime doesn't need to be a "passion" nor a hobby. It can just be an entertaining activity someone partakes in, and that's ok too. Also, a ton of anime is made specifically for children, so it shouldn't feel weird children can get into it.

>>23663
Nah, I don't really see it as a higher form of art, although I certainly do feel it is superior in many ways to other medium. It's more that I can't imagine watching anime at such a young age. I can't imagine being able to appreciate it properly, as I can see happen with most kids who watch anime. They watch it, but they don't really like anime for what it is. They think it looks cool but wish it was something completely different. They like what they think anime should be, that is with more western lines of thought, more than what it actually is. I think someone like that would go insane after trying to watch anime for more than a couple years, or into adulthood at all.

>>23468
Watching anime is supposed to be entertaining. If people want to be competitive about something, they should do so about an actual skill, not about something you're supposed to watch for fun.

>>23695
I agree it's pretty retarded. Take the people who watch anime at 2x speed for example. Sounds like it would take the fun out of everything.

I'm almost 23, so I'm probably one of those younger users you mean. I only saw Death Note and a few episodes of Hellsing when I was 16, and only seriously got into the medium when I was 17.

I used MAL forums for a really short while, and probably since my paranoia aged 18/19 I felt like I was older than the core userbase there, and at least I knew I couldn't fit in at all with people in college (pretty much just bragging about college). I posted a thread about Social Anxiety once and the responses were along the lines of "Get over it, work through it", "So anyone can say they're just depressed and get disability money?", "I __ (something about them achieving an irrelevant task from 'hard work')". I post that to try to show that the anime community isn't any different from normal people. I lost most of my joy in things when I was 18 and I doubt many people who end up on a website like this can relate to people on mainstream forums.

Also the mainstream forums seem to be centered around 'meme' culture kind of, where people act purposely obnoxious/edgy just to get a response. It's cool to be embarrassing kind of thing.

I would say you'd have more luck looking at smaller, older anime communities though. I've seen quite a lot of 30+ and some even 40+ on smaller websites. I would say they're relatively normal but the amount of posts about depression are higher than usual on forums like that (I guess 'normal' people would already have friends to watch and discuss anime with at that age?).

It really tires me out interacting with energetic people so I haven't looked at forums for a few years (I don't even use tohnochan regularly). I know lots of people feel depressed over comparing themselves to people so tend to avoid things (I used to feel this way watching slice of life anime where they'd have friends even). I really wish I found anime when I was 13 or so, since I'd appreciate it in terms of joy a lot more than now and some of the acquaintances I had in High School liked anime back then but because I'm retarded I rejected to watch it since I was and still am paranoid to express myself in front of my family.

There seem to be also a lot of autistic people into anime still as adults, but I don't really consider them comparable at all. If they're high functioning and have aspergers it's fine, but there are those loud obnoxious ones that I'd feel uncomfortable around. I assume you are also a regular person in a bad situation.

Oh yeah and my interactions with older anime watchers have only convinced me they're mostly weirdos. A 26 yo guy who had ecchi wallscrolls on his room used to ONLY talk about his friend with benefits and porn/hentai. That made me wary of speaking to people like that (people from here/wizchan I found have usually just been depressed). I don't know if this is true but some of those users on forums might be older than you'd think they just act like they're still 15.

Post edited on 17th Aug 2018, 5:03am

It's hard as fuck to stay active in your hobbies when you've got a full time job. Working 40+ hours a week just doesn't leave much time for anything else. Eventually everyone sucks up their pride and becomes a wage slave sooner or latter. It's even worse if you get a family. Those people are lucky to find a few minutes to unwind.

>>23702
Ever since 4shit got popular after the "messing with football" bullcrap, which was in late 2006 (Kanon was airing and I was watching it in 320p on realplayer) all of the same posers who infect any other field of enthusiasm showed up to the internet anime club with their desire for personal attention and feigned interest or outright disinterest in the topic at hand.
Social networking sites like MAL exacerbated the problem.

>>23793
Thanks for posting that image. I was looking for it and couldn't find it.

God damn normals did it to videogames, and now they're doing it to anime. All that's left is for anime to be completely butchered and warped to the tastes of those last two types of members and it's what the likes of CR and netflix are currently trying to make happen.

>>23794
It's a shame to think we're living through the period in which we will see the complete decline in not just anime, but hobbies that were typically associated with outcasts. I can't help but wonder if this normalisation process is deliberate...

>>23795
I feel like that decline is part of why retro stuff is starting to make a huge comeback, because there's still a sizeable portion of people who want the non-normalized version but no one wants to make that anymore so they re-release stuff that was already made

>>23796
I think a lot of that has to do with industries being creatively bankrupt while also not wanting to take risks. Old stuff that was once popular is a safe investment to them which takes minimal effort compared to something they have to make from the ground up.

I post on a few /jp/ spin-offs and the average age is about 25 or more. They are quite slow however.

>>23872
Really? I am surprised as /jp/ spinoffs seem to be quite young in age. The whole teenbro thing has some basis in reality.

>>23874
It depends on the spin-off but even the ones that actually have teenbros tend to not actually be teenbros but just attention seeking schizos, I don't post on these any more. New and young people don't generally find out about the spin-offs.

>>23875
I don't even know of any, I dropped off the map of everywhere for years online not interacting with much of anyone. Stumbled across 8chan and I really didn't like it. I remembered /jp/ and revisited but it's pretty dead to me. I remembered here and returned, I'm happy there's at least something still going on.

>>23794
If they get tired of anime and leave it alone, will it be possible to heal anime back to it's original state?

>anime back to it's original state?

You mean Studio Disney from the 30s and 40s? I would love that, Snow White really is one of the best movies ever made.

>>23884
nah, clearly he mean the likes of Astro Boy and Gigantor

>>23884
No, I mean anime going back to being good quality.

>>23886
I know right?

>>23887
No, I mean like right now.

Look, anon. You're getting the wrong idea. If anime becomes trash, it will be trash in terms of plot quality. My question is, will it be possible to regenerate that trashy plot back to a better one?

If anime becomes trash (in terms of storyline and plot), will it be possible to regenerate that back to a better one? Animation isn't the concern here, the story is.
To: >>23887
From: >>23888

>>23889
How are you going to gauge the quality of writing in the whole medium in the first place?

>>23890
Japanese culture is very prevalent in anime. But if the West had to kill anime, anime wouldn't be Japanese anymore. If I had to resurrect anime back to it's original state (like it is today and was back then), I would need to eliminate Western themes and ideologies.

My question is, if anime had to get completely destroyed by the West, like completely overtaken, would it be possible to undo that? I don't just mean anime having some western ideas, I mean like the entire medium being completely and utterly polluted with Western ideologies and society.

Would it be possible to undo that, if it ever happens?

>>23892
The Japs are killing anime themselves, without the West. Look at all the isekai and ecchi shite being made, and how it's becoming more prevalent in manga and anime.

>>23894
They've noticed this too. From what I've heard (not sure how true this is), most manga publishers have a soft ban on new isekai stories due to the market being over saturated and creators often having no long term plans for the stories. Ecchi shit meanwhile is shit sure, but it's shit that's always been around and always will be. I'd say that's something which can easily be ignored. I don't think it really hurts anything.

>>23895
The problem with ecchi is that it's lapped up by the ironic weeb types, which is another nail in the coffin. Even if a soft ban is in place, they'll still have plenty of contracts lined up for the next few years, so it won't have much effect.

>>23894
Ecchi's prevalence is a western myth. Fanservice is drying up compared to 10 years ago.

>>23897
>Fanservice is drying up
It really isn't. While it may have declined since 10 years ago, it's still fairly prevalent. I don't know how much the Japanese like it, but the ironic weebs in the West love it.

>>23898
The fact that it exists at all doesn't mean it's "prevalent" compared to the heydays of eroge adaptations. There isn't a single anime this season I'd qualify as ecchi, for instance. In my experience, westerners despise erotic fanservice and they see it as a barrier to "serious storytelling", so your interpretation of it feels strange to me.

>>23899
Actually, since writing this I remembered that ImoImo exists and I forgot about it completely. I stand by the point that these kinds series are few and far between, and this one in particular is too low quality to satisfy those who seek this kind of content.

>>23897
Yeah, seems like that was super common in the early 2000s and late 90s, but I haven't noticed much of it lately.

Its naïve to blame the decline of fan service over the past decade on intrusion by western influences. shitanro ishihara and the japan restoration party have been the ones pushing for increased censorship, its not church ladies in wisconsin that are at fault.

>>23470 again.
Today I came by to see how this thread was going and unfortunately it's steering away from its original intent. I thought there would be more ancient weebs finding this thread but apparently not. Oh well.

I just read OP again and his major complaint is that he feels like he doesn't belong. That youngsters just talk about college and life prospects. That can be alienating. But then, is it really different when you have people around your age to hang out with? About 2 years ago I moved back to my parents house and lived there for 6 months. They live in a fairly small town and everybody knows everybody. Sure enough, I was out for groceries one evening and a couple of people I went to highschool with happened to be on the same store as well. Met them on the liquor isle (I don't even drink, I was just looking at all the pretty bottles they have there. Wouldn't be cool to have pretty bottles for soda as well? Why isn't that a thing, seriously. Someone need to make it happen). Anyway we ended up talking for a while outside. A fourth guy we went to hs with just happened to be walking that same street and stopped by as well (telling ya, small town). So here we, four 30yo in front of a store, ready to talk about all the cool stuff. What they talk about? Making money. 90+ minutes talking about making money, every scheme, job opportunity, investment tricks, inside information, business venture. No subject was left unexamined on how to make money. I have no idea how to make money, that's why I can't even pay rent! I'm not going to say it was an agonizing experience, it wasn't honestly. I don't think I even care to be out of tune with people. And these guys are not chads btw, they were the geek boys, the ones that played Ultima Online and Magic The Gathering. Pretty sure if it were the chads we would be dividing the conversation between women and making money, making it positively awful. Anyway, that was the first real, long, proper conversation I had with someone my age since I left school basically. And there it was, still sucked ass.

I don't think had they talked about video-games or anime it would be any different honestly. Some people are just out of tune no matter what. I suspect OP might be one such case. They actually added me to whatsapp later that day and 3 months later I just left. It's just 6 people sharing porn and cracking ridiculous jokes at one another. There was nothing in there for me really. You know what I think it is? It's just some people, and I include myself in this category, are smart enough to have no fun with stupid jokes and sexual innuendos but not smart enough to have anything interesting to say, so real smart people don't want to have anything to do with you either. You get stuck on a limbo between apes and geniuses with no where to go. I remember being out of tune since early childhood days. I don't know exactly wtf is. So yeah I think OP is not really focusing on the main problem. I don't think it's about age. Maybe I'm completely wrong though, maybe he has a bunch of friends his age and it feels awesome for him. Somehow though, if he did find imageboards and one as obscure as Tohno, I don't think it's the case.

>>23471
Thanks. Depressing read really? I mean yeah, in a way, seing small forums and communities vanishing to become part of huge social media conglomerate. But remember, of all those people, I was the only one who had trouble jumping in, everybody else was fine with it, so I guess it's what they wanted? Truth is it doesn't really matter to most where they get to talk about the stuff they like. Just whatever, it's free and easy to use? Sign me up.

>>23502
>That's a good point, although I don't see why there was any reason to close the forum.

The reason is there was no one left that cared. We had like a post once in a blue moon and then the guy paying for everything shut it down to "re-design it, make it cool again" and it just never went back up again. Not that anyone cared really. Nobody cared. They had the FB group anyway. That was it. Now with smartphones people are not even on their computers anymore. You can find them on instagram now.

>>23879
I visit Kakashi-Nenpo and Merorin. Merorin has kind of skewed from being a /jp/ spinoff though...

>>23906
Not him but I went to Merorin a couple of times and it seemed mostly people talking about their lives, nothing to do with otaku culture so I left. Will check out nenpo though.

>>23906
>>23907
Merorin is more like /b/ than /jp/, I don't know how you could actually browse and post there. Kakashi-Nenpo is decent though.

>>23905
It's not just you, there's a small handful of people who didn't jump to social media and are just floating around on old, dead websites, talking about the old days. There's still a handful of active anime websites, but like you said most people seem to still be in their 20s while older people grew out of it.
Maybe it just is stunted growth.

WRT OP:
31 here.
Started e-anime consumption on dial up. Digi Charat (muh first) took about 2 months to get. This for a start highlights something we've lost. The community was *necessary* because you couldn't consume otherwise. Now, when the entire process from subject searching, downloading, and scheduling can be automated if you want it to be, anime is effectively a secondary utility you have piped into your house - not a treasured find.

The secondary value of anime before, say 2008 (Specifically when Haruhi made bank), meant not only anticipation & satisfaction, but a wealth of surrounding topics to really enjoy with like minded people. "The best subs, the best sites, the deeper meaning behind the translations" - none of which you can't today get with either google translate or one of the many content aggregators - or even aggregator aggregators.

So now, anime/the utility has to stand, i'd suggest, solely on its content - not the adventure and anticipation of finding something special or the pleasant sense of guiding someone else to moments of delight.

To make it to 30, you can probably put a cash value on your time, having sold enough of it to realise how little it's actually worth. Taking, say 3 hours to watch a mediocre story targeted at teenagers which reminds you of the "youth" and "vigor" you don't have any more loses pretty much all its appeal when you can calculate the opportunity cost without thinking too hard. If you've actually paid for it, then you've effectively got to justify "I have spent 2 days of my life (daily net income + viewing time) to watch a 10 year old girl fuss over nothing very much" - try rephrasing this to whatever you watched recently and were non-plussed about, see how enthusiastic you are about doing it again.

If you're particularly smart, you'll spend time researching either better alternatives through the myriad of services established, or shift genres to sample something else in hopes of finding something better to your taste. You may even find an overlooked genre that will provide a year or so of fleeting fulfillment before the cycle starts again (i.e. for the 12th time in your life).

But the first thought won't be to ask anyone - we've got web applications for that.

The question then really is, what is an anime community for? And does a 30+ y/o need that?

The modern answer, as the OP suggests is 'to be seen', like the edge-lord teenager's version of Opera Season.

And a 30+ year old survivor doesn't need that.

>>24122
In the case you’re describing the anime “community” is for the discussion of seasonal airings because as you’ve said all the other reasons that it used to be for are pretty much obsolete

I'm rather young so I can't fully relate to this thread and it kind of makes me sad. I got really into anime when I was 14 and around this time it was still niche so you could talk to actual nerds about it and have meaningful conversations. It wasn't until I turned 18 that westerners began to unironically enjoy and talk about anime, at least on a surface level.
The current state of the anime community is something that I have never seen in any other hobby community I was a part of. All I have seen outside of this website and a few others, are Stacies cosplaying and Chads/Tyrones wearing t shirts with Kanji on it. What pisses me off more than anything about this, is that they will go out of their way to bully and pick on genuine anime fans or literal weeaboos. I used to want anime to get more popular in the west, but now I have to watch anime turn into the new "cool kid thing" and it feels like a slap in the face.

The point I am trying to make is that, I wish I was just a bit older so I could fully experience the old anime community before it became trendy to claim to like anime. God, I hate normalfags with an undying passion!

>>24122
>anime is effectively a secondary utility you have piped into your house - not a treasured find.
Just something I'd like to point out: With the death of old nyaa and the closing of bakabt to the public, finding certain series can indeed be more difficult to find reliably. Sure for most common things it's easy, but not for more specific genres or simply just older stuff that people don't pay much attention to anymore. You can still expect to find some things that will take months to fully download just from the fact of flaky seeders if you're lucky, or possibly do some deeper digging.

>>24174
Don't a group of people ruin a medium you enjoy for you. While much of the perspective being represented in this thread is that of people barging in and hijacking the hobby, your point of view is different as someone taking to it more recently. Really, I'm probably not that much older than you, and have been watching anime and consuming other Japanese media since maybe 2011/12. If you're recently getting into anime and are taking the fact that these people exist over your enjoyment that sounds like it would seriously blow. Especially starting off, there are a lot of things you need to watch to get a feel for the different genres, their stereotypes, and developing preferences. Back when I first got into the stuff there was a big "grind" period where I watched a crap load, and I really did enjoy that. Just because it's trendy to some people, doesn't discount it all. Those same people would drop the hobby like hot coals the moment something new comes across.

Post edited on 18th Mar 2019, 5:03pm

>>24122
>The question then really is, what is an anime community for? And does a 30+ y/o need that?

The community is for sharing jokes about the anime and for sharing your original art based on the girls in the anime with penises drawn on them. If nobody else in the community is contributing to the fun then it ends up being pretty boring and you get sick of it and go looking for better companionship elsewhere. We live in an expanding universe so you can't expect everything to stay the same forever, learning when to move on if your community gets invaded by posers and turns to trash is an important skill, but just because one community stopped being fun doesn't mean that something similar can't happen again some other time, somewhere else, if we're lucky

The Touhou community is still good. One of the last "weeb" communities that hasn't been overrun by shallow teenagers.

>>24312
It probably depends what community. The Majority of Touhou posters on imageboards are secondaries. I recently did a test where I made a meaningless thread with a Touhou character and then I made a thread about the new game, only I didn't post A Touhou image in the op nor did I mention it was Touhou, I just used the title of the game. The first thread got loads of replies and the second not a single one.

>>24312
It’s probably due to the skill required and how much media there is to get through a lot of it. It’s also a shadow of what it used to be and there’s a lot of discussion over how the games aren’t as great as they used to be. While >>24314 has a valid point, being a secondary isn’t that prevalent compared to how it was in, say, 2012 when it’s cultural relevance peaked. It might also be because of how infamously dumb and passive-aggressive the communities around it were once upon a time that a lot of people don’t even bother with them. I don’t really blame them, even.

It’s kind of funny that people are upset with young people are the majority in a community around the media based overwhelmingly aimed at young people. I’m not even saying there is anything wrong with that, it’s just amusing.

>>24320
>It’s kind of funny that people are upset with young people are the majority in a community around the media based overwhelmingly aimed at young people
When I first got into anime, I remember the community being full of preteens and that never really bothered me. I think the problem a lot of people have is that the mindest of the community has shifted from a bunch of nerds cracking jokes and spamming japanese emoticons, to obnoxious teenagers using "hip" lingo and only having a shallow interest in anime. That's the way I see it at least.
This whole "Nerd culture" thing that has dominated this decade is on it's way out anyways so I'm sure these kinds of people will leave this community when something trendier comes along.