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File 134026708662.gif - (72.22KB , 245x269 , 1339518728487.gif )
2484 No. 2484 [Edit]
There is an opinion I hold, which I am sure many people here support, that illicit drugs are bad. In fact, I would rather not see illicit drugs get mentioned or discussed on TC. Frankly I just find offensive. I also think it sends out a bad message to users on this website most of which are already extremely vulnerable to dangerous thoughts and habits, and considering that drugs are illegal, it breaks the first rule about not discussing anything that breaks the law (although we already do things like share copyrighted stuff). Encouraging suicide is not allowed so encouraging activities with a high risk of causing damage shouldn't be allowed either (almost all hard drug users and long term users of soft drugs experience a bad trip or hurt themselves in some way or another)

However, as the popularity of drug threads suggest, drug taking has pervaded the NEET/otaku community quite strongly. This shouldn't be surprising, drugs is something associated with the trash of society. Drug taking is just a NEETish thing to do and the aim of this site is to provide a refuge for these people.

So should drug discussion be allowed or not?
81 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
>> No. 2636 [Edit]
>>2634
Then don't talk about "majority" if it is just groundless gut feeling. Just because you feel majority doesn't like something, your argument worth of nothing. I thought that much would be obvious.
>> No. 2639 [Edit]
>>2636

And with this we're right back at >>2626.

>Thing is you can't because you have no idea what the exact numbers look like and neither does anybody else.

I'm guessing and you're guessing. My point is banning discussions regarding something should only happen if the majority doesn't like it.
>> No. 2641 [Edit]
>>2639
Actually >>2625 didn't say anything about majority which was my entire point. You are making your own rules if you think forbidding something requires that majority doesn't like it.

This thread PROVES that there are people, who don't want to see drug discussion here. That means >>2625 is making solid argument.

Post edited on 14th Jul 2012, 8:58am
>> No. 2642 [Edit]
>>2641

Hey, if you only need a vocal minority then let's just go ahead and ban everything.

Me, I don't like SHAFT. Neither does Tohno. I don't think their 'pretentious grimdark shit for trash emo faggot hipester paedophiles' and I think it doesn't belong on Tohno-chan.
>> No. 2643 [Edit]
>>2642
Nice straw man. Try again.
>> No. 2644 [Edit]
this is actually still going? if it's so annoying, hide the threads and go lurk in the other irc chan, no ones gonna enforce anything
>> No. 2645 [Edit]
>>2642
Are you poking fun at me?
>> No. 2646 [Edit]
>>2644
But I don't like MOBAs.
>> No. 2648 [Edit]
>>2643

>Nice straw man.

It's funny because both >>2625 and >>2642 are using the exact same argument.
>> No. 2649 [Edit]
>>2648
Yes and nobody said he used different argument. Straw man was when I said majority isn't required and he changed it to "then minority is required". While entire point was it doesn't matter. Because it has never been proven that currently forbidden things are forbidden because majority doesn't like them. He just made that "rule" by himself. If you think majority is required, you should make argument why majority should be required.

If you are saying >>2625 made "bullshit argument" you need to provide why it is bullshit argument. Not just make your own rules. As said in Tohno-chan "somebody doesn't like it" is valid argument because everything what is forbidden is forbidden because somebody just doesn't like it.
>> No. 2650 [Edit]
>>2627
Well, looking at the rules, I would hope the majority of people here are against the stuff in the rules, because that is partly why I've stuck around this whole time.

Really though, I don't care about this whole drug thing. As previously stated, if it doesn't go against the site as a whole(Which stuff like 3D shit, gaia shit, /b/ shit does), people should just take it in stride and learn to ignore it. If you can't ignore something so simple... well, you should probably work on that, friend, or continue trying to sway Tohno.

Either way, just try and enjoy your time here the best you can, alright?
>> No. 2653 [Edit]
It's actually kind of hard to find out what the majority wants or not, since lurkers outnumbers posters.
if there was some way of knowing it for sure, it would make decisions about the site a whole heck of a lot more easy.
but since there isn't, one just has to go with what they think the majority wants... and threads like this can give a decent idea of that in the long run I think.
>> No. 2654 [Edit]
>>2653

You can always start some poll or something. I trust nobody is immature enough to try to rig it.
>> No. 2655 [Edit]
>>2654
yeah that's not a bad idea, I should look into trying to set up something like that.
>> No. 2656 [Edit]
No. Fuck polls. Let the best argument win or decide this on your own, tohno.
>> No. 2657 [Edit]
A poll is a bad idea since you could just spam it through proxies. The best solution is through discourse and debate, which this thread is sufficing quite well.

From what I judge, it's split between those who don't care and those who do care. Nonetheless, since drug is so rare on this site, I don't think it warrants a new rule. Rather, if and when it's brought up, it should be kept within the context of modesty, maturity and first and foremost, relevance.

For example:

(a): hey everyone i got real drunk and pissed myself! - Such discussion is irrelevant to this site, even in "off topic" boards like /ot/.

(b): Hi, I'd like to discuss the effects certain psychoactive drugs have on ones depression and anxiety levels. - Put forth that way, it can give rise to a proper discussion that many can relate to.

We need better arguments against drug discussion (on the contrary, the ones in acceptance of it are rather sound). So far, the only points made have been "well I subjectively perceive them as being something Ford Drivers do" - which is a very juvenile and empty point.
>> No. 2658 [Edit]
.)
>> No. 2659 [Edit]
>>2657
>"well I subjectively perceive them as being something Ford Drivers do"
The same exact thing can be said for alcohol, yet many here who use that argument still drink.
>> No. 2660 [Edit]
Yeah okay, screw it, I'll allow drug discussion.
>> No. 2661 [Edit]
>>2660

I hope this turns out okay.
>> No. 2662 [Edit]
>>2660
And what about drug political discussion (should drugs be legal etc.)?
>> No. 2663 [Edit]
>>2662
Don't push it.
>> No. 2664 [Edit]
>>2661
To be honest, I don't really get why people are bothered so much by political discussion.
I understand that it's something that doesn't really effect us directly as it's part of the real world, and that it's it's kinda pointless since nothing will ever change, but I don't really get why someone would be offended or upset by it.

Post edited on 21st Jul 2012, 1:32pm
>> No. 2665 [Edit]
political discussion leads to arguing (about 3D things no less) and arguing leads to shit threads
>> No. 2666 [Edit]
>>2665
yeah I guess that's true.
>> No. 2667 [Edit]
>>2665
after all, they say the best way to remain friendly with people is to never discuss 3 things: religion, politics, or money. aside from money I think that's a pretty good guide for internet interaction as well, unless you are on a site specifically for those things
>> No. 2676 [Edit]
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2676
I wonder if the people who say it's not true that the consumption of alcohol is encouraged, are seriously or not.
>> No. 2677 [Edit]
>>2676

This image has me convinced.
>> No. 2844 [Edit]
Drugs are for rockstars. All normal fags desperately want to be rockstars.

The drug users are trying to peer pressure us into taking drugs, just like the normal fags did at school.

The media is constantly trying to convince us to take drugs eg "Drug Experiment Live: Presented by Jon Snow".

The escapism argument is invalid. We use digital virtual worlds for escapism, not drugs.

Deep down, the drug user desperatley wants to be cool. Admit it!

Taking drugs involves TAKING RISKS. and being open minded to new experiences. This is like the complete opposite of the risk averse person averse to new experiences, averse to leaving the house.

The phrase "Sex, drugs, rock and roll" should be sufficient enough to put drugs into the Ford Driver category.

Drugs come with prison risk. Prison is full of people. Prison = social contact. Therefore drugs come with risk of social contact. Doesn't matter if it's a 0.01% risk of prison, that risk is still too high for a hiki.

Drug use is linked to peer pressure.

I'm sick of drug users trying to peer pressure me into their lifestyle. It's like being back at school.
>> No. 2845 [Edit]
>>2844
> The drug users are trying to peer pressure us into taking drugs, just like the normal fags did at school.
I talk about doing drugs here sometimes in the way some people talk about cutting themselves or trying to kill themselves. This doesn't mean I want you to use drugs or that those people want you to kill themselves. If I said to you on the IRC, "take drugs or everyone will hate you" or something, I could see how that'd be "peer pressure," but just because I share some things that happen in my life doesn't mean that I want you to copy me.

> The media is constantly trying to convince us to take drugs eg "Drug Experiment Live: Presented by Jon Snow".
Some people are shown using drugs in a positive light in the media (haha dude i smoked SO MUCH WEED xD), but the harmful effects of drugs are shown much much more often, in dramas, news, and commercials, with all of the anti-drug legislation and all that going on. The media may depict people using drugs, but in general, I would argue that it does not promote drug use.

> The escapism argument is invalid. We use digital virtual worlds for escapism, not drugs.
Drugs help a person escape his environment even further by altering sensory perception. And he can even play video games while on them.

> Deep down, the drug user desperatley wants to be cool. Admit it!
No, I'm a loser and I know it. That's part of why I use drugs.

> Taking drugs involves TAKING RISKS. and being open minded to new experiences. This is like the complete opposite of the risk averse person averse to new experiences, averse to leaving the house.
I think this really depends on the type of drug. If I drink coffee or smoke a cigarette, I'm not exactly putting my life on the line. Same goes for smoking marijuana or taking a few little pills I buy from someone online. Some drugs have more of a risk factor involved with taking them (like heroin, crack cocaine, or methamphetamine) and some really do make you experience new things (I'd say psychedelic mushrooms or other hallucinogens would do that a bit), but one reason why drugs are so powerful is because they let you experience alterations of your reality within your own home. But just because something has some risk involved or is exciting doesn't mean a a NEET can't do it! You shouldn't force your severe severe anxiety on everyone else as the "proper" image of a NEET.

> The phrase "Sex, drugs, rock and roll" should be sufficient enough to put drugs into the Ford Driver category.
alright, let's get rid of the music and lewd boards too, pal

> Drugs come with prison risk. Prison is full of people. Prison = social contact. Therefore drugs come with risk of social contact. Doesn't matter if it's a 0.01% risk of prison, that risk is still too high for a hiki.
Buying and selling large amounts of certain drugs comes with a moderately high prison risk. Buying a little baggy of cannabis to relax or a bump of speed from someone trustworthy? Make that a 0% risk. And you know, pirating music or games comes with a small risk of legal repercussions... that doesn't mean people here won't do it.

> Drug use is linked to peer pressure.
In high school or middle school, if you had shitty friends, definitely. But here on Tohno-chan, no one's telling you to use drugs to fit in.

> I'm sick of drug users trying to peer pressure me into their lifestyle. It's like being back at school.
I'm a drug user and let me give you my thoughts: There's nothing wrong with trying out a drug once or twice, if you're interested, just to see how it affects you. If anything, it'll make you appreciate being sober more. And if one helps you with your anxiety or depression or can help you feel better about being you, what's wrong with using it every now and then? But don't worry, you don't have to use drugs to be my friend, I promise.
>> No. 2846 [Edit]
>>2845

Discussions about suicide were banned in the board before, because it might have encouraged people to actually do it.
>> No. 2847 [Edit]
File 134886048817.jpg - (332.27KB , 1280x720 , [GotWoot]_Moyashimon_Returns_-_09_[10bit][734B3A8F.jpg )
2847
>>2844
>I'm sick of drug users trying to peer pressure me into their lifestyle. It's like being back at school.
I feel the same way about drinking, which peers and the media are much more blatant with their pressure. including japanese media.

>All normal fags desperately want to be rockstars.
hehe, so true, from all the garage bands to the well selling guitar training video games. it's like every teenager in north America owns a guitar.
>> No. 2849 [Edit]
File 134886084619.jpg - (20.44KB , 400x300 , nge_20.jpg )
2849
>>2847
>let's get shitfaced!!
>> No. 2851 [Edit]
>>2845
Just go away or stop forcing your normality here. If you are using drugs, you just idolize normals who do it too. Yes you might be loser, I don't care, but you are also loser in eyes of true /tc/ers.

If you people had even a little be responsibility, you wouldn't talk drugs, specially in here, in community which you love. Anything which is harmful, illegal, immoral and normalshit shouldn't be discussed here. Yes you whatever you want with your body, but keep it away from here. We just don't care, we don't want to know. Whole point of tc in my opinion is to be place where we can be free of this forced normal bullcrap.
>> No. 2852 [Edit]
>>2844

Some people who watch anime are Ford Drivers, therefore anime is for Ford Drivers and you are a Ford Driver if you watch anime. My argument is infallible.
>> No. 2853 [Edit]
>>2852
Do people die when they are killed?
>> No. 2855 [Edit]
File 134886588145.jpg - (113.40KB , 680x680 , 578531.jpg )
2855
How I feel when I see this thread and anyone replying to it.
>> No. 2858 [Edit]
>>2855
me too
>> No. 2859 [Edit]
>>2852
God can you stop pretending to be retard? Yes, some normals watch anime, but that doesn't make it normalshit. Just like drugs aren't normalshit just because some normals use drugs.

Ford Driver is person who idolizes everything normal. No, normals don't idolize anime. Normals idolize rockstars, motorbiker gangster, MTV, big brother, clubbing and other things which are related to drugs, drinking and acting like retard without using your own brains because it is "fun", "cool" and "extreme". Therefore using drugs is for normals and people who idolize normality.

Anime is big part of otaku culture, even tho there are some normals who watch it too. Therefore comparing drugs and anime is totally retarded and I seriously hope you aren't being serious or can't you make real argumentts instead stupid straw man fallacies?

Also otakus don't do drugs. If you do, you aren't real otaku:
>Since we covered sex and rock 'n' roll you might also want to know about drugs. Answer: none. Otaku are anti-somatic. Information is their only drug, but that they preferably take intravenously.
http://www.cjas.org/~leng/otaku-e.htm
>> No. 2861 [Edit]
>>2844

>The drug users are trying to peer pressure us into taking drugs, just like the normal fags did at school.

This is like saying 'oh, it looks like show [x] is discussed a lot of /an/, they are trying to peer pressure me into watching it!'.

>The escapism argument is invalid. I use digital virtual worlds for escapism, not drugs and any person who does not do as I do is a Ford Driver and therefore doesn't belong here

Shoving your opinions down somebody's throat like that is the epitome of being a Ford Driver.

>>2851

>true /tc/ers.

A true /tc/er appeared!

You DO have a Gold Account, right?

>If you people had even a little be responsibility, you wouldn't talk drugs, specially in here, in community which you love.

If we had even a little sense of responsibility we certainly wouldn't be floorshitting NEETs, either.

The only post which actually matters ITT is >>2660.
>> No. 2862 [Edit]
>>2849

Great, now every time I will see you post I will have that image in my mind.
>> No. 2863 [Edit]
Why not quarantine drug chats to this thread ---> http://tohno-chan.com/txt/res/66.html ? That way, people on the more active boards don't have to see it.

>>2851
> Just go away or stop forcing your normality here.
Your decision to present to me -- "go away" OR "stop forcing normality" -- makes the false assumption that I'm forcing anything at all. This is a discussion on whether or not discussion of drugs and their usage should be tolerated on tohno-chan, and I'm merely defending my perspective.

> If you are using drugs, you just idolize normals who do it too.
Let's look at your logic again -- it seems to me that you are implying that IF "someone uses drugs" THEN "they idolize normals". But I'm not sure I understand your reasoning here; are you saying that I, for example, use drugs because I want to be like a rockstar or something? Your argument seems to be more of a generalization rather than one addressing me specifically, so I won't bother with denying your claim. But let me raise some generalized counterpoints in response: if someone drinks tea, is it because he's emulating the Queen of England? If someone takes Adderall because he has ADHD, is it because he wants to be like those cool meth heads you'll see crawling all over the streets in shitty towns? (Amphetamines are very similar to methamphetamine, as you may or may not be aware; and the Queen is often depicted drinking tea in various forms of media.)

> Anything which is harmful, illegal, immoral and normalshit shouldn't be discussed here.
Drugs are only harmful in excess. Only certain kinds of drugs are illegal, and the politics leading to their legislation and regulation are complex and a topic of heated debate. What is it that makes a drug immoral? In pre-Christian societies, drug use was necessary for the shaman's establishment as leader, giving form and birth to our morals today; I recommend Joseph Campbell's "Primitive Mythology" as an excellent introduction to the topic of shamanism. And seeing as plenty of people on Tohno-chan use drugs, including a site administrator, the claim that "drugs are normalshit" is dubious at best.

> Yes you whatever you want with your body, but keep it away from here. We just don't care, we don't want to know. Whole point of tc in my opinion is to be place where we can be free of this forced normal bullcrap.
Hey man, I make an effort to spoiler drug use in the daily activities thread when I discuss it as I recognize the adverse reactions some users have to the discussion of drugs. But that doesn't mean that I think that it should be a rule that any topic that irritates one or two people here should be censored, because I also see Tohno-Chan as being a place for freedom.

Just because I disagree with your arguments doesn't mean that I dislike you, by the way. I'm not judging you, but I do think that your reasoning could be improved on, just a bit.
>> No. 2864 [Edit]
>>2863
I don't like drug discussion on Tohno-chan, whether its 'normal' or not, I simply find it nasty and I'd rather not see it. There are other sites where you can discuss it and they're better equipped to do so. On this site its a controversial topic, and it also sends out a poor message to other brohnos, many of which are very vulnerable. I know, free will blahblahblah but I think its better to be ignorant in certain things.
>> No. 2865 [Edit]
>>2861
>If we had even a little sense of responsibility we certainly wouldn't be floorshitting NEETs, either.
Explain. How being neet makes someone irresponsible? Also you seem to miss my point. My point was, talking about drugs(speically in positive light) will make more people interested in them and because drugs are dangerous, because of your drug talk someone might be in dangerous situtation.

>>2863
>makes the false assumption that I'm forcing anything at all
You were talking about your drug experiences -> forcing it.

>if someone drinks tea, is it because he's emulating the Queen of England?
Idolizing normality doesn't mean idolizing one person. People who use drugs use them because it looks fun when normals do it. So they want to have similar fun. Therefore they are idolizing normality.

>What is it that makes a drug immoral?
In society which works together, doing harmful things for yourself should be considered as immoral, because it will increase burden of others who need to take care of the one who does harmful things.

>In pre-Christian societies, drug use was necessary for the shaman's establishment as leader, giving form and birth to our morals today;
Such immoral cultures have died. It's called culture evolution.

>And seeing as plenty of people on Tohno-chan use drugs
My experiences disagree. Only very minority of tc users do drugs.

>because I also see Tohno-Chan as being a place for freedom.
I love tc because this place isn't place for freedom. If it would be, we would have stupid trolling 4chanmemes and clubbers and other normal things everywhere. Strict rules make this place good.
>> No. 2867 [Edit]
File 13489300575.jpg - (301.69KB , 863x1466 , mod.jpg )
2867
>>2865

>How being neet makes someone irresponsible?

I think a good chunk of us NEETs ended up where we are because we are lazy an irresponsible (among others), I don't really know how one should go about trying to explain this.

>because of your drug talk

Just for the record, I have never even been anywhere near drugs and I certainly have absolutely no plans to take an in the future. It's just that I'm not a 'I don't like it = it doesn't belong here' type of person, either.

>Strict rules make this place good.

Didn't expect to see you say something like that since the rules say drug discussion is allowed as long as it's kept to one thread, it's just that you seem to have an exceptionally hard time abiding by the rules.
>> No. 2868 [Edit]
>>2865
> People who use drugs use them because it looks fun when normals do it. So they want to have similar fun. Therefore they are idolizing normality.


I don't even use drugs but it makes me cringe reading this. Please stop talking out of your ass.
>> No. 2869 [Edit]
>>2865
>Such immoral cultures have died. It's called culture evolution.
Are you claiming that our current culture is moral and good? You seem to be idolizing normality, if we are to argue in your fashion.
>> No. 2870 [Edit]
>>2867
>I think a good chunk of us NEETs ended up where we are because we are lazy an irresponsible (among others), I don't really know how one should go about trying to explain this.
Yes that's what you THINK.

>Didn't expect to see you say something like that since the rules say drug discussion is allowed as long as it's kept to one thread, it's just that you seem to have an exceptionally hard time abiding by the rules.
We've already had multiple threads that mentions drugs here. Also where rules say so?

And I didn't mean you were using drugs. Just hypothetical situation: if you talk about drugs, more people will have interest in them, which could lead more trouble.
>> No. 2871 [Edit]
>>2870

>Yes that's what you THINK.

Well it's certainly true for me and other NEETs I talked with through IRC and whatnot. And really, if you look through some /so/ threads like that 'are you a piece of shit, too?' one we had not so long ago I think saying that it's not just me and those 5-6 guys I talked with isn't too far fetched.

Actually I'm inclined to say that it's another case of 'well it's not true for me so it shouldn't be true for anyone else around here' on your side.

And really, what kind of NEET is responsible? I have a hard time imagining such a person. Many of us are so deep down the path of procrastination that we have trouble forcing ourselves to watch anime and play games and you expect us to be resonsible?

>Also where rules say so?

>>2660 This should be more than enough, really. Just because the rules weren't updated doesn't mean Tohno didn't say what he thinks about the whole deal.
>> No. 2872 [Edit]
>>2660
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