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File 157747670175.jpg - (164.38KB , 850x1205 , sample_005766acf89a387fc6488b84d665226a.jpg )
33905 No. 33905 [Edit]
What are some things that really bug you?
Things that genuinely piss you off?

I thought it would be nice to have a thread to vent about any little annoyance, no mater how big or small.
Any and all complains about the world around you are welcome here!

Old one reached bumb limit I think.
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>> No. 33906 [Edit]
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33906
I think that guy who complained about Sailor Moon had a bit of a point. So many cunts talk about how they loved Sailor Moon as a kid. They of course mean the Dic dub which everyone already knows the issues of. Even today that thing has repercussions.
>> No. 33907 [Edit]
I can't get into FMA. It just doesn't appeal to me in any way whatsoever
>> No. 33910 [Edit]
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33910
This is fairly specific, but people who complain about garbage collectors when there's, for example, heap (de)allocations in nested loops. And then the ol' "Let's rewrite it in Rust!"
>> No. 33918 [Edit]
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33918
I was rewatching the first episode of Death Note a few days ago. I could recognize a few words here and there, and I realized the subs weren't quite accurate. The most obvious example being when Ryuk ate an apple and said 甘い (sweet), except the subs said "tasty". I can't think of any good reason for this change. I only notcied these little things, but now i'm wondering if way more is being lost in translation.

There's also the matter of tone and characterization. I vaguely remember in another subbed version Ryuk said something like "you'd be the only fucked up person left", but in the one I watched recently it was more "you'd be the only person with a bad personality". Ryuk looks a little different depending on which one you see.
>> No. 33919 [Edit]
>>33918
Yeah, it's annoying. Yesterday I was watching Honzuki no Gekokujo and they had a character in a fantasy setting say 'she's on cloud nine' it makes no sense and there was no reason to do it.

Japanese doesn't actually have a real equivalent to the F word so I would be suspicious of any sub that uses it(unless they are literally saying the F word which does sometimes happen when parodying Americans).
>> No. 33969 [Edit]
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33969
This doesn't annoy me as much as confuse. The term "weeaboo" was a forced meme that spread out of 4chan and took on a life of its own with people sort agreeing to what it means, but ending up using it with little rhyme or reason. Some common criticisms of weeaboo didn't really make sense.

The biggest is "they forsake their own culture and only care about Japanese culture. People should stay in touch with their own culture". This is so bizarre to me. It's nationalistic in a way never so normalized in the west except in this one context. I don't know what they even mean by "culture". What is "American culture"? How many Americans read Hemingway or O.Henrey or Mark Twain? How many listen to Gershwin or Copland? Are most Americans in touch with "their culture"? Do most Germans regularly listen to Bach and go to the opera, are young Brits in love with Handel and Shakespeare? If Marvel movies, Sex in the City, Star Wars, and that kind of stuff is American culture, how does criticizing people for strongly preferring anime make any sense?

Another is "weeaboos disrespect Japanese culture and aren't interested in the 'real stuff'". This one has a liberal tint to it. They're foreign and not white, so white people "disrespecting them" is bad and that kind of thing. Except Japanese people, not the ones that grew up in America and think all Asians are best buddies with each other and act like valley girls, couldn't give less of a fuck. Plus they regularly make fun of westerners in their media without thinking twice about it. Think of every goofy guy with a blonde afro who speaks loud engrish. How many of you guys like Kabuki or Rakugo? Anyone?
>> No. 33970 [Edit]
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33970
>>33969
I find it annoying too but I guess it happens with lots of terms, they get overused until they lose all meaning.
Originally "weaboo" just meant "wapanese", the kind of, teen, obnoxious, anime fan that just got into the hobby and it's going through a phase of liking all japanese and hating all non-japanese while being an annoying piece of shit in the meanwhile. So there was a lot of criticism to make to "weaboos" if they weren't just little more than a joke, but at some point the thing degenerated to "weeb", that basically means doing anything remotely linked to Japan like playing a japanese videogame or watching any anime. Even the japanese product is called "weeb", so you can have "weeb" videogames or movies depending on how strong is the prejudice of the idiot who's using the term.
I blame /v/ for all this shit, I think the hate to anything japanese started in that hideous place.
>> No. 33971 [Edit]
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33971
>>33970
>I think the hate to anything japanese started in that hideous place.
I'm not so sure of that. I think moot also actually word-filtered wapanese to weeaboo.

Post edited on 1st Jan 2020, 10:17am
>> No. 33972 [Edit]
>>33970
>I blame /v/ for all this shit, I think the hate to anything japanese started in that hideous place.
It probably began as "ironic shitposting" or something.
>> No. 33973 [Edit]
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Removed
>>33970
To this day I'm still bewildered by how, in a rather short span of time, "weeb" replaced "otaku". I'd say since franku-chan put up that "WEEABOOS" video. Anyway I suppose it's better to butch a made-up meme word rather than otakuオタク, which actually has a japanese meaning.

>>33969
> I guess it happens with lots of terms, they get overused until they lose all meaning.
One of the biggest offenders imo is 'waifu'. "my waifus"; "my favorite waifu"; "best waifu"; "this show has a lot of waifus"; and you'll now excuse me as I go punch a wall.
Unfortunately this is unavoidable with the immense about of circlejerking and ironic weeaboos out there.
>> No. 33974 [Edit]
>>33971
I was talking about how "weeb" started being referred with particular despise to anything japanese. Before that "weaboo" didn't mean anything bad about japanese or otaku culture but about a certain kind of western fan.
>> No. 33975 [Edit]
>>33973
I think that's what means "dying of success".
I know all had changed when I heard my normalfag flatmate who has barely touched any imageboards in all his life saying "waifu". 4chan has become so mainstream than all normal young people uses and keeps degenerating it's slang.
>> No. 33984 [Edit]
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33984
This is for any product in general, but I've started noticing this on amazon art reviews because it's more obvious. I'm not trying to gate keep, but some people just shouldn't review. A lot of crappy art products get their rating inflated from all the 'OMG THIS IS MY FIRST TABLET and iT's LiKe TOtaLy ThE BesT thING EVer' fanboys who came from their favorite youtuber shilling the supply. Also artist post their work even when it isn't needed. Why does a tablet review need the art you drew with it?
>> No. 33985 [Edit]
>>33984
Amazon reviews are absolute garbage anyway. Filled to the brim with fake review bots.
>> No. 33986 [Edit]
Fuckimation's logo can go to hell. The absolute last thing I want to see when I bring up an episode of an anime is that shitty, bright, overdone, and flat out fucking terrible logo. They can't just have a logo that'd have a simple, cute little animation to it like every other fucking logo on the planet, no. Theirs needs to be a flashy logo that changes itself 3 fucking times, shoves a bunch of bright, clashing shit into your face (god help you if your lights are turned off), and is ultimately a forgettable logo that does nothing to impress upon you. Maybe the logo is a metaphor for the company itself? Either way, fucking terrible. First time I've seen a company fuck up something as basic as the logo.
>> No. 33987 [Edit]
>>33986
I only just realized I typed that as "fuckimation" after I posted it, but I guess that still fits.
>> No. 33988 [Edit]
>>33987
It's a word filter, and yeah I agree. It's obnoxious to say the least.
>> No. 33989 [Edit]
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33989
https://youtu.be/zurpawWKB3E?t=73
How long can you watch the clip for? How does it make you feel?
>> No. 34001 [Edit]
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34001
This is stupid and I don't actually care that much, but I don't like it when people praise yugioh or pokemon for being good strategic games and take them seriously as such. I've never played yugioh, but I know enough about it to see some of its problems. A couple of years ago I used a popular pokemon desktop client and got somewhere within the top ten of its "uber tier" ranking, so I know something about it.

One of the biggest problems with both as "serious strategic games" is the money/collectathon aspect. You can't play yugioh without the cards, you can't play pokemon without the pokemon. How good you are at using your pieces, isn't as important as whether you got them legitimately on not. Nevermind that yugioh cards are literally just expensive pieces of cardboard, if it didn't come from the right factory, and the right people didn't get their money, it doesn't count. You can't even use Japanese cards in a tournament, and it's not because of translation. They'd prevent people from reselling cards if they could. With pokemon, besides having to buy the console and game, you have to spend time collecting pokemon and training them in the right way and breeding them correctly. You're not just tested on skill level, you're tested on your willingness to do tedious shit, which is why I used an unofficial online client instead.

Another issue is that the "metagame" constantly changes because new shit to buy is consistently released. If you take a break for a couple of years, and want to get back into it, get ready to do a whole lot of research. Yes, common strategies in games like Chess also change with time, but the fundamental game is still the exact same. Pokemon, and probably yugioh too, regularly introduces both tons of new pieces and new mechanics. I don't know about yugioh, but with pokemon, 80% of the "strategy" comes from building your team. Preplanning, matching things up, keeping the "common threats" in mind, types, abilities, items. Here's the thing though, no matter how good you plan and build, you wont be able to cover everything. There will be at least one thing that consistently fucks you up. If you try and patch it, another hole will appear, or more. You can't handle blissey, so you switch a team member with a fighting type, but then "xeneras" usually beats you. Yeah, there's in battle tactics, but that only goes so far and basically amounts to poker-like bluffing.

Luck is an ingrained part of Pokemon. "Serious player organizations" like smogon will try to circumvent this and pretend it doesn't exist, but that's very artificial. In the highest smogon "tiers" this is less noticeable. With lower tiers, there's some value because pokemon nobody would ever use otherwise get usage. The "overused tier" however, is the worst. It is the bread and butter of most people who care about smogon tiers. It's where people who want to think of themselves as "serious players" go, but where everything they think is "broken" gets banned.

Pokemon has some fun to it. It's fun to use serene grace and wobbuffett and ditto. My go to strategy was to draw things out and annoy my opponent as much as possible. I've had many people against me leave the game and let their timer run out. Sore losers and kids are abundant. With chess or shogi or go, there's none of this(except sore losers). Nobody cares what your pieces are made out of or who you bought them from. There's is no such thing as counterfeit chess pieces. Both players start out with the same material and the material has been the same for hundreds of years. These games are objectively better at testing people's skill against each other. These are real strategy games. If you go to a yugioh tournament in Harlem or the Bronx(I know they love that shit), and you leave your cards unattended, some gorilla with a goku backpack, naruto headband and fake grills will steal them.

Post edited on 10th Jan 2020, 8:34am
>> No. 34002 [Edit]
>>34001
>I don't like it when people praise yugioh or pokemon for being good strategic games
When people say that, I think they're only talking about TCGs and not games in general. You can't really compare chess and YGO. The first is a very old and polished board game whereas the last is a card game with a huge focus on deck building and a changing metagame. Like you said, luck also plays a big part. But I understand why you find some TCG players annoying.
>> No. 34003 [Edit]
>>34002
>I think they're only talking about TCGs and not games in general.
Maybe, I wasn't talking about the pokemon card game though. People say the video game's battle system is "suprisingly complex". The only reason it's so complex in a competitive setting is because there's so much shit to memorize and keep track of. I don't know anything about card games, but there's a standard 52 deck which I'm sure some really great strategy games have been made for that are probably more cerebral than yugioh. I guess I don't like the entire conept of TCGs.

Plus, yugioh could have been a really cool story if the manga author never introduced the card game.

Post edited on 10th Jan 2020, 9:41am
>> No. 34004 [Edit]
>>33986
Did they make their opening shit even worse recently? I recall it being the obnoxious "you should be watching" thing but this season (maybe before that) it manages to be even worse, 7 seconds of over-the-top swirls and colors. I wouldn't be surprised if they start adding explosions next iteration.
>> No. 34005 [Edit]
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34005
>>34003
Never cared for any trading card games outside of Pokémon and YGO because they're never-ending with new shit added constantly and in the end it's pay-to-win. Expensive pieces of cardboard like you said. I'd rather play something with a set amount of pieces or cards that you buy once and you have everything you need to play.

However I did like the Pokémon TCG back when it was new, mostly just because it was Pokémon and the pictures were cool. And also you only had three series of cards to keep track of. Tried building decks with the cards I had to play against myself, and that's the only experience I have with playing a TCG, if you don't count the Pokémon and YGO TCG Game Boy games.

>You're not just tested on skill level, you're tested on your willingness to do tedious shit
Never cared for the IV, EV, nature and breeding stuff, or shiny hunting for that matter, because it was tedious and boring. Gen 2 was perfect for me. Used to hang out on a pokémon forum back in the day, it was amusing to see how the gen 3-4 smartass kids lambasted anyone playing the games the "wrong way" (being dumb and ignoring the "deep" mechanics) or anyone liking the previous generations (which lacked depth) more than the latest.

>Plus, yugioh could have been a really cool story if the manga author never introduced the card game.
The first seven volumes of the manga were by far the best, both in story and art style. Still liked it through the whole first series, but making the card game the sole focus was a mistake. So were most sequels.


>>33905
>What are some things that really bug you? Things that genuinely piss you off?
Seeing
"Nobody:
Person in the video: Statement"
under every single youtube video no matter the content.
>> No. 34006 [Edit]
>>34004
With the magic of video recording, you too can watch as their logo turns from a simplistic one to the one that sears your eyes every time you want to watch new shows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPnwz31Z2J0
>> No. 34007 [Edit]
>>34005
You really ought to block comments if you still use youtube. I know ublock can filter out the comments element, and there are probably a bunch of other plugins that can also work. Getting such a massive dose of human stupidity each time you watch a video is probably as bad as eating lead paint.
>> No. 34008 [Edit]
>>34005
>Seeing
"Nobody:

God I hate that so much. It looks and sounds moronic and doesn't make any sense as a meme. What the fuck is funny about that? It's just people typing out their thoughts in a poorly formated way that doesn't even make any sense half the time. I mean what the fuck is the point in pointing out no one said nothing as your opening statement like that?

I wish people could just communicate normally without meme. I fucking hate what became of meme. They used to primarily be jokes making fun of stupid things people did and said (and who uaualy deserved mockery), then normalfags turned them into a highly restrictive template for expressing one's thoughts and opinions in an easily consumable and sharable format, then more retards came along and turned meme into a catchall term for any online joke or funny image. These people need to all anhero.
>> No. 34011 [Edit]
>>34008
>I mean what the fuck is the point
It's pretty simple, anon the point is: HUR DURR LOOK AT ME XD IM SO QUIRKY LOOK AT ME I CANT FEEL ANYTHING GENUINELY SO I EXPRESS MYSELF THROUGH ROUNDABOUT GENERIC TEMPLATES OTHER PEOPLE THOUGHT OF LOOK AT MEXDXDXD
Like that. That's the translation.
>> No. 34012 [Edit]
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34012
>>34005
>it was amusing to see how the gen 3-4 smartass kids lambasted anyone playing the games the "wrong way" (being dumb and ignoring the "deep" mechanics) or anyone liking the previous generations (which lacked depth) more than the latest
That's funny when you consider how the Japanese versions of the game don't have kanji. Nearly everything is written in hiragana. The option to read things with kanji was only put in recently. That shows more than anything else who the actual target demographic for these games are. It's always been a "low level" game.
>> No. 34031 [Edit]
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Removed
This may be an unpopular opinion, but a shit ton of people rush into sterilization way to fast. I sound like some 'you'll change your mind honey' dude because I am. Back then people had to debate over it, talk to people to get info, and really think about the choice. If they got sterilized they were really serious. Now they find /r/childfree circlejerk about how 'doctors are totes wrong', 'they're all wrong about how you'll regret it!', and so on. Even worse the sites average user base is teens so kids are being convinced to make a bad decision by age 18.
Yes pic related regrets it
>> No. 34032 [Edit]
>>34031
Do you really want these people to breed, anon? The less people, the better.
>> No. 34033 [Edit]
>>34031
You're right, this is an unpopular normie opinion and I suggest you leave.
>> No. 34036 [Edit]
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34036
People seem to hate walking around here. I just found that I have work colleagues that would drive 2km by road than walk 300m to get to the shops. FFS.
>> No. 34070 [Edit]
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34070
Cars and driving. Driving is boring and tedious as hell. Cars themselves aren't interesting either. I'll never get how people think they can express their individuality through big, cookie cutter scraps of metal on wheels. In a parking lot they all blend together. A van or a sedan? Who cares? They're just slightly different shapes of metal. Car designs are restricted by practicality. If you like a more boxy look, too bad, that's not as fuel-efficient, so every new one is sleek and well curved.

They're just tools, but they're dangerous too. Crossing a road without a light is like walking through a shooting range. I don't like having a gun pointed at me any more than a car in front of me. I hate having to trust the another person to slow down and not move. What if they just feel like killing somebody that day? People are fucking crazy.

Post edited on 9th Feb 2020, 2:34pm
>> No. 34071 [Edit]
>>34070
>Crossing a road without a light is like walking through a shooting range
Funny enough, I had this thought crossing the street. Even though I wait at the light, cars are still turning from the other direction, and they just hang over me as I'm trying to walk. It feels horrible, especially if they're impatient enough to keep inching forward.
>> No. 34076 [Edit]
>>34071
I always make sure to make eye contact with people in the cars as I walk in front of them. If they don't look at me, I don't go in front of the car. Of course, that doesn't do anything about the assholes making left turns into the road you're crossing, and I've almost been hit multiple times. I think Americans genuinely don't believe that pedestrians should be allowed to cross the road. I also hate dumb fucking road rage with a passion. Why is it more important than your life to get to your destination half a second sooner? Just let the guy pass.
>> No. 34077 [Edit]
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34077
Justice is dead in this day and age, with enough money you can bypass almost every law, and it boils my blood greatly.
>> No. 34078 [Edit]
>>34077
I'm pretty sure it's always been like that.
>> No. 34079 [Edit]
>>34078
Yeah, but if anything, things have gotten better in this respect.
>> No. 34083 [Edit]
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34083
I don't really know how best to describe this, but there's a certain special arrogance to Americans online that even other hyper-nationalist countries don't have. It's not just a belief that they should be considered the best, if you ever post something in the context of liking another countries food, culture, military, politics, etc, they will pretty much destroy any chance of a discussion by spending the entire thread railing on it while posting pictures of "superior" American things. I guess they think they're defending their countries honor in some weird way or something? But I wouldn't even be thinking about America if it weren't for their inevitable spamming of pretty much any thread with the tiniest hint of discussion of anything regarding nations. Hell, there's ever websites where the entire userbase considers any posting of non-american hardware as spamming. It's an insane level of egotism combined with defensiveness that is off the charts and beyond anything anyone else has ever done. I don't WANT to argue about which country is better in the first place, I just want to be able to say "hey this food from X country is pretty nice" without Americans screaming in to tell me why I should feel bad for liking something that isn't American. God damn it, I don't ever want to be THINKING about them right now either but they make their presence known everywhere and anywhere that they feel a lack of American values.
>> No. 34088 [Edit]
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34088
>>34083
As a hyper-nazi I agree that such behaviour is tiresome. Liberals and the modern left of course worship everything foreign, but I think even the most ultra-nationalist Europeans are more positive and accepting of foreign culture than the same kind of Americans (as long as everyone stays in their own countries), one reason may be because of how stigmatised traditional and conservative values and anything relating to nationalism has become the past 10-20 years, more so in western Europe than anywhere else.

And here, especially in Scandinavia, Germany, and the UK, the opposite is more common. Say "hey this food from my country is pretty nice" and you'll get some retard telling you that you should feel bad for liking anything native to your country and that it's not even native because it's copied from Turkey or some place. No matter the topic, it ends with politics, feelings and the need to shut it down for being problematic and offensive. This week we reached peak retardation with Scandinavian Airlines new ad campaign where they ask "What is truly Scandinavian?" and the answer is absolutely nothing, everything is copied and Scandinavians don't exist. It was widely disliked, but you still got the usuals defending and agreeing with it, as well as the media lecturing the people for being evil racists and blaming "Russians" for the dislike ratio. Tiresome yes.

Sorry for borderline /tat/ posting, but it still fits the thread theme.
>> No. 34089 [Edit]
>>34088
I could understand being ashamed of your country if it's kinda shit but being ashamed of your country when mostly all works and it could be in the top 10 of world countries to live doesn't make too much sense.
>> No. 34090 [Edit]
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34090
I'm sick of the way that people translate manga online, it's so stupid and western with things like swearing and American slang that are completely unsuitable and far from what the characters have actually said. It happens in anime to a degree(although actually less now that HS and everyone else just rip subs from Crunchyrole) but at least then you have the original Japanese to go along with it.

'Well learn Japanese then' I know and I am but that doesn't help me right now.
>> No. 34091 [Edit]
>>34089
It might seem that way but just because a country functions and is comfortable to live in doesn't mean it is good and that you should not be ashamed of it. Of course it means that it's comfortable but the culture of that country could still be completely opposed to your own values and could mean that even though its comfortable to live in you feel isolated and hate everybody there and hate the country in general.
>> No. 34092 [Edit]
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34092
>>34088
You can't be a "hyper-nazi", or regular one, and an otaku at the same time without massive amounts of double think, hypocrisy, or being a fake in one or both. A nation with their state mandated version of "wholesomeness", would not be an otaku paradise.
>>34091
That depends on how you define "works well". If people aren't allowed to express themselves or lack other essential freedoms, it doesn't work well. You might as well live in the woods then. If your values aren't condusive to societal progress and strength, keeping in mind what makes society worth-it, your values are shit.

Post edited on 15th Feb 2020, 6:15am
>> No. 34093 [Edit]
>>34092
We're not in the 30's anymore so having one ideology or another, extreme or not, doesn't have too much impact in how anyone lives. You could say that's the true triumph of capitalism, the death of ideologies or whatever. It's a matter of identity, how do you present yourself to others or how do you feel about things more than anything practical.
>> No. 34094 [Edit]
>>34092
>It's a matter of identity
So people form their "identity" around shallow symbols and iconography that's disconnected from their actions. That's sounds like being a fake to me. Isn't that normalfag shit? Identity should be practical.
>> No. 34095 [Edit]
>>34094
I'm not talking about how it should be, but about how it is. But in the other hand, any dangerous ideology becomes quite inoffensive.
>> No. 34096 [Edit]
>>34092
That was mostly meant as a joke since the post above mine mentioned hyper-nationalist countries and I live in the opposite of that.
>A nation with their state mandated version of "wholesomeness"
>If people aren't allowed to express themselves or lack other essential freedoms, it doesn't work well.
Sounds pretty much like here, "freedom" exists as long as you walk in line with state and media.

>>34090
We had some official translations like that here with slang expressions and references to domestic occurrences and celebrities any Asian would never had heard of.
>> No. 34098 [Edit]
>>34090
It's even worse in games. It's the whole reason I started learning Japanese.
>> No. 34099 [Edit]
>>34098
Yeah, I've seen translators brag about how they're allowed to manipulate the game's stories and "fix" things they personally don't like. It's infuriating.
>> No. 34101 [Edit]
>>34098
I've noticed that too, I think it's often because a game will have a dub and the original Japanese but the subs are for the dub.
>> No. 34102 [Edit]
>>34092
>A nation with their state mandated version of "wholesomeness", would not be an otaku paradise.

How so?
>> No. 34103 [Edit]
>>34102
Not him but otaku have a tendency to be shameless perverts who sexualize anything and everything around them.

Post edited on 15th Feb 2020, 5:23pm
>> No. 34104 [Edit]
>>34103
Well they are in good company then, going by certain heads of the Luftwaffe.

But also, there are different kinds of Otaku, not all of that kind would bring that into public anyway and of course, no society of that era would appreciate that anyway really, even now they wouldn't.
>> No. 34105 [Edit]
File 158181163090.jpg - (241.78KB , 850x1203 , __drawn_by_tsukioka_kirio__sample-0c724e1a14a81750.jpg )
34105
>>34102
You really need to ask. Realllllly? Nazist outlook on media is similar to bible-belt conservatives. They're obsessive about the family unit, being "family friendly", protecting the precious childrens as much as possible, and reinforcing "healthy thinking". It's based on protestant "stoic" culture. Anything they deem "degenerate" gets purged. They were book burners. They only see media as tolerable fluff, ideological, or subversive. It must be "realist". 99% of otaku media would either be entirely unacceptable or need extreme changes to fit their standards. If you don't love and embrace "degeneracy", you're not an otaku.

Harem shows? Disgusting, a proper relationship has one man and woman. Anti-war message? Defeatist, unpatriotic. Moster Girls? Degenerate, give them a prison scentence and rededucation. Horror? Decadent trash. CGDCT? Peodphilic and juvenile. Mecha? Must only have burly men fighting for the good of the state. Loli??? At best chemical castration, at worst execution.
>> No. 34106 [Edit]
>>34104
>no society of that era would appreciate that anyway
Why do you think things changed? Otaku media thrives when the majority populace and government is apathetic towards it. Even if it's not endorsed, is must be tolerated to thrive. In the states we just siphon off of Japan. The tolerance here is enough for that at least. A Nazi state would have tons of internet firewalls, or a seperate network altogether. The populace would never got the chance to learn about otaku medai either.
>> No. 34107 [Edit]
>>34105
>They're obsessive about the family unit, being "family friendly", protecting the precious childrens as much as possible, and reinforcing "healthy thinking". It's based on protestant "stoic" culture. Anything they deem "degenerate" gets purged.

So a lot like the rest of the world at the time then? I wouldn't go comparing 1930s Germany to the modern west while forgetting what the west itself was like at the time.

>If you don't love and embrace "degeneracy", you're not an otaku.

There are many different kinds of Otaku culture, you can't go around making such bold and idiotic claims as that.

>Harem shows? Disgusting, a proper relationship has one man and woman. Anti-war message? Defeatist, unpatriotic. Moster Girls? Degenerate, give them a prison scentence and rededucation. Horror? Decadent trash. CGDCT? Peodphilic and juvenile. Mecha? Must only have burly men fighting for the good of the state. Loli??? At best chemical castration, at worst execution.

Again, you really seem to be forgetting what the rest of the world was like at the time. Britain wasn't likely to be accommodating of loli either. But funnily enough, Nazi Germany actually would be more likely to accommodate that and mosnster girls because of the culture of mythological revisionism and love for art and the esoteric in general.
>> No. 34108 [Edit]
>>34107
>So a lot like the rest of the world at the time then?
No. They were more extreme. Their book burning was far more extensive than anyone else's. Again, why do you think things changed?
>There are many different kinds of Otaku culture
Not in the western usage of the word. "Otaku", as in someone who loves that subection of Japanese pop-culture, embraces it.
>love for art and the esoteric
They burned 20,000 books from their Institute of Sex Research. Here's some of their list of burning criteria. Ask yourself how much otaku media fits the bill.
>Pacifist literature
>All historical writings whose purpose is to denigrate the origin, the spirit and the culture of the German Volk, or to dissolve the racial and structural order of the Volk, or that denies the force and importance of leading historical figures in favor of egalitarianism and the masses, and which seeks to drag them through the mud
>Writings on sexuality and sexual education which serve the egocentric pleasure of the individual and thus, completely destroy the principles of race and Volk
>Popular entertainment literature that depicts life and life's goals in a superficial, unrealistic and sickly sweet manner
>> No. 34109 [Edit]
>>34107
Also, why are we comparing?
>So a lot like the rest of the world at the time then?
Not the point. Nazism's standards were state mandated while in the states it was more cultural. There never was a legal standing for fiction censorsihip in the states after the constitution was written. That doesn't matter though. A super conservative, bible thumping, born again Chistian, or somebody who agrees with all EU and UN policies and inclinations 100% also can't be an otaku without massive amounts of double think, hypocrisy, or being a fake in one or both.

Post edited on 15th Feb 2020, 5:01pm
>> No. 34110 [Edit]
>>34108
They were a reactionary movement who hated the Jewish, of course they would act in that way.

>Not in the western usage of the word. "Otaku", as in someone who loves that subection of Japanese pop-culture, embraces it.

I don't particularly care for that but even within the western usage it's not true, you can love Japanese media and not be a degenerate, you can hate it and be a degenerate.

>They burned 20,000 books from their Institute of Sex Research. Here's some of their list of burning criteria. Ask yourself how much otaku media fits the bill.

Again, not all Otaku culture is what you think it to be, but also, you have to understand what Germany was prior to the Nazi's taking power. Much of it was quite degenerate, the Nazi party was in large part a reaction to that. Britain and many other places had laws in place that would have prevented such books being published in the first place.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obscene_Publications_Act_1857
>> No. 34111 [Edit]
>>34109
>There never was a legal standing for fiction censorsihip in the states after the constitution was written.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_obscenity_law

>A super conservative, bible thumping, born again Chistian, or somebody who agrees with all EU and UN policies and inclinations 100% also can't be an otaku without massive amounts of double think, hypocrisy, or being a fake in one or both.

Again, why?
>> No. 34112 [Edit]
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34112
>>34110
>>34111
>degenerate
Is a word for normalfags, and making jokes. It is defined by normalfags. It's shorthand for an entire concept, something which strongly goes against societal taboos and norms. To some, candle wax bdsm is degenerate, to others it's not. The entire concept is something which I believe a real otaku has to transcend. Embrace what other people find "degenerate" because you don't care what they think. Otaku don't share their nonsensical values. Instead they prioritize the artist/creator and their unlimited freedom. I'm not aroused by guro, I don't seek it out, but I love it. I love it for existing. I love where it's coming from. I'll never dislike something because it is "degenerate".

This mindset is impossible for nazis, or christians or libtards, or secular conservatives, or traditionalists, or luddites, or any of that other bullshit. You can't "modernize" Nazism without castrating it and watering it down, like Christianity. Nazism would be harder though it it's state mandated. Thankfully the States wasn't made into a theocracy.

>United_States_obscenity_law
Unconstitutional. Yeah it existed, but it was a grievous violation.
I believe a real Otaku cannot be a normalfag.

Post edited on 15th Feb 2020, 5:33pm
>> No. 34113 [Edit]
>>34112
Normalfag is a word for normalfags.

Again, your personal view of Otaku is different from what Otaku actually is, you can hate some aspects of it and still be an Otaku. It's not some hippy freedom movement.

>Unconstitutional. Yeah it existed, but it was a grievous violation.

Whether it's constitutional or not is irrelevant, it existed and it was enforced.
>> No. 34114 [Edit]
>>34113
>some hippy freedom movement
That has nothing to do with 2-d. Nothing. You don't understand anything. I wonder why you're not on /a/ or something complaining about moe or whatever it is that you hate.
>it was enforced
By idiot judges before being ruled unconstitutional state by state. A "Nazi constitution" would fully support it.

Post edited on 15th Feb 2020, 5:57pm
>> No. 34115 [Edit]
>>34114
I like moe though? But I could hate it and still be an Otaku.

It's you that doesn't understand anything, you are turning something into a political movement that was never one to begin with, it's just media made to suit varying taste in a country that allows that kind of thing. To think that all Otaku must like all media within that spectrum is absurd.

Most obscenity laws were removed eventually, such is the passage of time. But I don't think this law actually has been removed, just applied less and less.
>> No. 34116 [Edit]
>>34115
>in a country that allows that kind of thing
>all Otaku must like all media
It's not about like or dislike. It's not about personal enjoyment. It's about acceptance. You have to accept everything in that spectrum of 2-d media. You can't have a moral crusade against any part of it and be an otaku. You're saying the same thing without realizing it. What do you mean by "allows"? What do you think "allows" looks like? What is different about the states and how it "allows" things? Why does the states not produce anything like it in such bulk?

What i'm trying to do is define these things. Nazism doesn't fit.
>> No. 34117 [Edit]
>>34116
>It's not about like or dislike.

It is.

>You have to accept everything in that spectrum of 2-d media.

No, you don't.

>You can't have a moral crusade against any part of it and be an otaku.

You can.

Otaku are not all the same, they have varying interests, beliefs and morals. It is not a movement.
>> No. 34118 [Edit]
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34118
>>34117
Otaku media started as a cottage industry. Otaku were the producers, they were the creators and artists. To a large extent, they still are. They still produce so much. They do it in harmony with minimum conflict. So productive and free compared to everyone else. Why? How was it possible? Because of what i'm talking about. Because of the mindset I described. Nazis, christians, anybody like them, could never do the same. Never. They would never come together and form a similar enviroment that makes comparable content because they don't have the otaku mindset.

Post edited on 15th Feb 2020, 6:21pm
>> No. 34119 [Edit]
>>34118
That's because they work with like-minded people and because of the culture of Japan. The Japanese tend to keep to themselves and not be that aggressive towards one one another even when they oppose the other's values. They rarely say what they think if it will lead to conflict.

>Nazis, christians, anybody like them, could never do the same. Never.

Yet there are Christians that create Otaku culture.

>They would never come together and form a similar enviroment that makes comparable content because they don't have the otaku mindset.

I have said it before and I will say it again, it is NOT a movement. They do NOT come together. Like you said yourself, it's a cottage industry. It's a bunch of small groups or even individuals creating separate things in separate places for often separate audiences. Zun isn't going to work on a guro hentai VN with someone, he has even said that he doesn't like characters to be sexualised, so is he not an Otaku? He is making a completely separate piece of media.
>> No. 34120 [Edit]
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34120
>>34119
>The Japanese tend to keep to themselves and not be that aggressive towards one one another even when they oppose the other's values
I consider that acceptance.
>Yet there are Christians that create Otaku culture.
Examples please.
>he has even said that he doesn't like characters to be sexualised
Does he ever actively try to stop people from sexualizing characters? Does he ever say people who do it are evil or degenerate or should be ashamed? If no, that's acceptance.

Not being accepting is essnetial to being a real Nazi or Christian. They can't be otaku, without massive amounts of double think, hypocrisy, or being a fake in one or both. This acceptance essential to being an otaku. I consider it a movement. Making groups, doujins circles, producing whatever you feel like and not getting in each others' way. That's a movement to me, and I like it.
>> No. 34121 [Edit]
>>34120

I can't think of any Christian ones off the top of my head, but I know there were some, I'm not going to waste time looking form them.

>Does he ever actively try to stop people from sexualizing characters?

How could he? He asked for people not to but he can't do more than that. It's not possible and even if it was it would not make him many friends.

>Does he ever say people who do it are evil or degenerate or should be ashamed?

I don't remember but I would doubt it, few people would to begin with, let alone in Japan. Again, it would not make him friends.


>If no, that's acceptance.

No it's not. You don't have to go out of your way to do something like that to not accept something.

Again, your idea of Otaku culture is skewed. Acceptance and Otaku have nothing to do with each other.


>Making groups, doujins circles, producing whatever you feel like and not getting in each others' way. That's a movement to me, and I like it.

That's basically how all societies work. It doesn't mean that these groups approve of each other.
>> No. 34122 [Edit]
>>34121
>How could he?
Suing people. Causing a media ruckus. Complaining to people with authority, Getting other people to complain about it. Start a whole compaign against 2-d pornography. People find many ways in the west.
>few people would to begin with
There's tons of people in the west who do.
>That's basically how all societies work
No. Where's the doujin circles? Where's the constant stream of loli doujin? Where's our proper comiket? Why does the media get into a hoopla about anything offensive? Why are there so many western "otaku" crusading against things?
>You don't have to go out of your way to do something like that to not accept something.
>Accept: to endure without protest or reaction

It doesn't matter whether they say it. It's what I see. Acceptance and otaku have everything to do with each other. Those supposed "Christians" you're talking about, probably have massive amounts of double think, hypocrisy, or are fake in one or both. Waving your hands and calling it inexplicable cultural magic is just refusing to take a closer look and do some analysis, make connections and conclusions.
>> No. 34123 [Edit]
>>34122
You can;t sue people for drawing your characters being lewd... All he can do is prevent people from using his franchise to make money which he does. As for the rest, it's just dumb. He is a content creator, he is not going to want to do something that angers so many of the people that consume his content, and as I said, the Japanese tend not to do that in the first place.

>There's tons of people in the west who do.

Not many content creators. Unless they think it can get them views and popularity(such as with supporting gays ans the like).

>No. Where's the doujin circles? Where's the constant stream of loli doujin? Where's our proper comiket?

What you are speaking of is the degree and kind, the fact that people are forming groups to create things is not a novel concept or unique to Japan. The Doujin culture is based on other factors unrelated to loli laws and the like, many doujin creators don't even create Loli and there are still many western 'artists' that do. We still have anime festivals and the like, they are just bad, but that has nothing to do with any of the factors you mention.

>Why are there so many western "otaku" crusading against things?

Because they can and because that is what westerners do. As I said the Japanese don;t like creating conflict. Just look at this thread, what have we been doing? Crusading and creating conflict. So are you not an Otaku by your very own logic?>>34122

>Accept: to endure without protest or reaction

>protest
>a statement or action expressing disapproval of or objection to something.

Like what ZUN did?

You are delusional and I don't feel like continuing this. But I will leave you with this. You can't just go around manipulating Otaku culture into a box to fit into whatever political ideology you happen to have, you are no better that the Nazis and Christians that you claim are hypocrites and have double think. You think it's just them constricting Otaku culture and turning it into things it isn't, you think it's you that is championing it's freedom, but it's you that is restraining it and moulding it to political ideologies in the process, you are the same as them. The People that make and consume Otaku culture are all humans, they all have different ideas, beliefs and Values, some will align with your own, some won't.
>> No. 34124 [Edit]
>>34122
>accept
Tolerate is another word for it. The last thing I think when I think Nazi is tolerant.
>> No. 34125 [Edit]
I don't know how much I agree with the whole argument about the meaning of otaku, aside from the fact that I think anyone who crusades against an aspect of 2D media is a big homo. But I don't know how anyone could think that otaku media would ever be legal in a society along the lines of nazi germany, let alone accepted. I admire Nazi Germany, but I could never live there.

Post edited on 15th Feb 2020, 8:29pm
>> No. 34126 [Edit]
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34126
>>34123
>which he does
How so? People sell porn based on his characters all the time, for money. It is dumb, but here we are with games not being sold because it would offend some.
>that has nothing to do with any of the factors you mention
It does. If the mindset I'm talking about was very common in the west, I think the west would be producing far more of that type of content.
>the japanese tend
>Because they can and because that is what westerners do.
It's not magic. "That's just what they do" is not an explanation. People do things because of their mindset. You can't seperate actions from mindset. You can tell what a person's mindset is from their actions. I'm explaining the mindset. You're pretending it doesn't exist. They don't have to be a hivemind to have a similar mindset.
>You can't just go around manipulating Otaku culture into a box to fit into whatever political ideology you happen to have
What is my political ideology exactly? Your initial question was stupid and the answer is obvious to anybody who makes similar connections to what I do, even if it's implicitly, like >>34125. 1930's culture changed and melted down because the ideology supporting it, protestant Christianity, also weakened. Legally, Christianity didn't have enough standing to strongly endure, not in the most influential countries(US). Nazism has all of that shit embedded into it and would be very strongly supported in a Nation carrying it. It would be taught in every school. That "1930's mindset" would endure in a Nazi state. That mindset is obviously incompatible with the tolerance necessary for a thriving otaku culture.

Post edited on 16th Feb 2020, 10:35am
>> No. 34127 [Edit]
>>34126
>How so? People sell porn based on his characters all the time, for money.

This is hilarious, you had no idea about the Doujin culture all along, even after bringing it up all the time. No publisher targets that, they would be mad too. I doubt it would even be worth the effort it would take either. Not to mention the huge shock-waves that would have and the resulting back lash to him it would cause. he would be public enemy number 1. Use your head man.
>> No. 34128 [Edit]
>>34127
>All he can do is prevent people from using his franchise to make money which he does
>which he does
How so? Answer the question.
>they would be mad too
>public enemy number 1
And yet that kind of control has been imposed on people in the west for decades. Only the internet has given people more freedom in this area. I am mad about it, and yet it still happens. There still isn't as much freedom. Look at what steam does. Nearly every analogous platform for user content has many restrictions in the west. Nobody is raising their pitch forks. We're supposed to be the confrontational ones. If they're as passive as you say, what would they do, huh?

Post edited on 16th Feb 2020, 6:17pm
>> No. 34129 [Edit]
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34129
Oh jesus christ, I just said I didn't like American attitudes towards other countries cultures and this is what happens? People are so fucking eager to jump into arguments all the fucking time. Why? My original vent was about how some people have to make everything political and turn it into a culture war. I want to read what other people had to say, take it to fucking /tat/ or fuck off.
>> No. 34200 [Edit]
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34200
I miss cel animation. Those thick lines and dark shadows and loud colors. That feeling it gives you. And orchestral soundtracks. I wish those were more common. Trumpets and violins blaring.

Post edited on 2nd Mar 2020, 6:19pm
>> No. 34201 [Edit]
>>34200
yea cel animation was the peak.In a strange way the availability and ease of use of technolohy later on lowered the quality of the artists work.older manga too have that particular feel that i cant find anymore.
>> No. 34204 [Edit]
>>34200
>cel animation
Funny, I was thinking about making a thread for it.
>> No. 34207 [Edit]
File 158324340215.jpg - (65.93KB , 605x497 , __belldandy_aa_megami_sama__9a3774d08a684d014b0fbb.jpg )
34207
>>34204
Please do. I like it, but I know very little on it.

Post edited on 3rd Mar 2020, 5:50am
>> No. 34208 [Edit]
>>34200
I love cel animation. I prefer it much for than the digital animation we have now. I also love the type of shading done back then and the darker colors. I'm not going to go about nu-anime vs old-anime but I really felt like anime back then was more organic and pleasing to the eyes.
>> No. 34209 [Edit]
 
>>34200
There's been some great orchestral soundtracks every so often.
>> No. 34210 [Edit]
>>34209
My browser doesn't support flash.
>> No. 34211 [Edit]
>>34210
I didn't think you needed flash for that, but there's this if you prefer. It's from G-Reco.
https://files.catbox.moe/5sda20.flac
https://files.catbox.moe/yjr5t5.flac

Post edited on 3rd Mar 2020, 9:26pm
>> No. 34223 [Edit]
File 158381091596.png - (901.98KB , 640x480 , __dejiko_di_gi_charat__8c60a5856d1f76b50869bf43b18.png )
34223
Probably mentioned dozens of times, but I hate being around normalfags in any of my hobbies. I usually steer far away from normalfag spaces, roaming around obscure fourms where only the most autistic hang around, smaller imageboards & textboards, and other niche places. However, I have been seeing quite the number of posts that exhibit normalfag behavior. For example, I recently saw a post on one smaller imageboard talking about there being so many cute "waifus". Another post was bashing others, calling anime other than entry level garbage 'creepy' and 'pedophilic'.

While I am not really concerned over this, it really gets annoying to see these kind of people intriflate spaces where they do not belong. I don't understand why normals come onto sites where they do not belong. There are so many places for normals to congregate and still be 'edgy and hardcore'. Places like 4um, reddit, discord, and various other places are where most of them are and where they should stay. Places like those are where vernacular is bastardized and where nobody respects culture.

Remember to always report and bully people who dont respect otaku culture or outs themselves as a newfag. Allowing them to come in to our communities will only attract more of them.
>> No. 34224 [Edit]
>>34223
The internet is just too accessible. Whenever there is a low concentration of normalfags, they will eventually, in their random travels, end up, places they don't belong. And they'll stay unless kicked out. How do you feel about the current state of tohno-chan? Good bad? I'm only curious and have no intention of turning this into a meta-discussion.
>> No. 34225 [Edit]
I began watching Age of Empires II matches on youtube after the definitive edition came out because, unbeknownst to my clueless self, there's a sizeable community and tournaments. It's really enjoyable, but I've also had to experience the Twitch userbase: it's awful. The users parrot, spam "memes" and phrases, and engage in banal behavior that's tedious. E-motes are obnoxious, and the faggotry is nearly deadly. I try to focus purely on the match and the, surprisingly good, commentary (where applicable), but the chatbox is a dynamic component so I will, unfortunately, take a glance at it from time to time. I don't know how anybody can enjoy that garbage.
P.S. I am very happy that AoE2 is still going strong. I dumped so many hours into it in my formative years. I just wish III was a bit more popular.

>>34224
>The internet is just too accessible.
Time to move to a different protocol? I wonder if Gopher would be viable.
>> No. 34226 [Edit]
>>34225
>Time to move to a different protocol?
I'm optimistic about safenet, but I can understand why others would be less so.
https://safenetforum.org/t/so-you-want-to-make-a-safe-website

Post edited on 10th Mar 2020, 6:17am
>> No. 34227 [Edit]
>>34225
>Age of Empires
I remember playing it for the first time back in ~99.To be honest i never liked it.I found it really tedious and boring.After some point it gers so repetitive that its mindbogling.Most of its appeal is that it was the "first".And they are still milking it-that just goes to show how creatively bunkrupt they are.
Stronghold on the other hand-now that game is fucking amazing.Levels of /comfy/ never seen before.
and the walls are actual walls
>> No. 34228 [Edit]
>>34227
I mean at stronghold you have to use strategy.No matter what huge army you throw at the enemy castle,you are gonna lose if you just rush them.On aoe if you just spam the strongest units you win-no strategy no tactics-nothing.not even moats.The first time i took an enemy castle by moving cleverly and finding an opening in the defences i was ecstatic.That kind of feel is missing from aoe.Even the battle for Weskek is more strategic than aoe.Checkers is more strategic than aoe.Going to the bathroom requires more strategy than playing aoe.
I dont mean to insult you but i can see why normals still like it.
>> No. 34229 [Edit]
>>34227
>>34228
Not the other person but I think it's precisely because of that that it is not as popular online as AOE2 is now. It doesn't have the meta and strategy just gets in the way, look at LoL, it's immensely popular but it's basically AoE but only controlling one unit. it's incredibly simple mechanically and that's why people like it.
>> No. 34231 [Edit]
>>34229
Yeah i agree i was just ranting about how i dont like it.Stronghold lost its online popularity because it had some pretty serious problems in its multiplayer mechanics that were abused and made the game tragically bad.If you look at multiplayer games you ll see that literally everyone is doing exactly the same thing.That got old pretty fast.Personally im not a huge fan of online multiplayer but there are some games that are/were popular and had an element of strategy in them maybe Total Annihilation/Planetary Annihilation and Starcraft.But as far as castle siege/mediaval warfare goes i think that aoe is pretty bad.I think that i will go as far as saying that it is worse than Empire Earth 2. I mean at EE at least you had hilarious situations were you were fighting archers with tanks.Then of course i discovered that Japan made games,too and i never looked backed.
And since i brought japan up,have they made any interesting strategy games?
>> No. 34232 [Edit]
>>34223
>Another post was bashing others, calling anime other than entry level garbage 'creepy' and 'pedophilic'.
For some reason I've wanted to get into an argument with someone who thinks like this lately. Sometimes my idle thoughts imagine this argument and come up with things I'd want to yell at them with. It would probably be a waste of time, though.
>> No. 34233 [Edit]
>>34232
They are people that think internet is serious business and they dont want you there because you are making them look bad.They cant be discussing the latest social issues in a place with anime pics!Hence the whole anti-anime crusade in the imageboards in the past few years.And if you pay close attention you ll see that they are the same people that flooded in and took over-with the blessings of the mods.Dont even bother,they are not interested in discussing anything they want to drive you out plain and simple.
Lately,in the past year, in a small-ish imageboard i used to visit, they made their appearencce.When i saw people bashing others because they used anime pictures in their posts,my blood pressure rose so high that i thought i was gonna have a stroke.Yet another place gone...and it was a fkng anime themed imageboard ffs.
>> No. 34235 [Edit]
>>34226
I cannot imagine showing that to the common user--even an imageboard user--and getting a good response. Which is why, even though I suggested it in the first place, moving to an alternative web is a dream.

>>34227
>>34228
You're wrong, friend. I'll even go as far to say that you're ignorant of AoE2. Having the strongest units doesn't win you the game. If that were the case, units like elephants would be dominant, but they aren't. They're expensive and slow. Pikemen, who cost no gold--a very precious resource, can be easily massed and destroy elephants. Indeed, even the mighty paladin isn't always a wise choice because, once again, pikemen are an effective counter. And then there's monks! But here's a great thing: that's not always the case. If you have knights fight un-upgraded pikemen/spearmen, their natural counter is ineffective. Further, you're assuming a player can even tech into strong units. Getting high-tier knights or elephants is an expensive process, and it takes time too: time and resources that could be spent on producing units or researching other technologies. Hell, one strong unit for a faction might be unattainable or is weak in another. I've only been elaborating about this one misconception, but it perfectly illustrates why you're incorrect and very ignorant: this concept alone shows a lot of depth that you're overlooking. If you think I'm lying or don't know that I'm talking about, I recommend researching this stuff. It's interesting.
With respect to Stronghold, it's a fun game, but it's not something that scratches the RTS itch for me. It doesn't even have unit formations! Comparing the two games is not a good idea because one is a traditional RTS first-and-foremost that uses the medieval period as its base, and the other is castle management and a different kind of RTS.
>I dont mean to insult you
I don't see the point in saying this when you very much did intend to do that; otherwise you wouldn't have typed the things you did.
>> No. 34236 [Edit]
>>34235
No anon you are incorrect,when im talking about strategy im talking about how you have to position your troops in order to attack a castle and avoid the defences and find an opening.In that respect aoe is trash.
Its a fun game but its not a strategy game.The walls are a joke and there are no defences.I might have oversimplified things a little regarding the units but it doesnt change a thing.Even in pokemon you must know what types can attack other types,does that mean that pokemon is a good strategy game?There are units that are extremely buffed and if you rush them you can btfo anybody.I have actually played and seen other people play.On the formation that you say is missing, what are you gonna form on aoe?your 50 units?Let me laugh.At least on stronghold you can have up to thousands of units.
Its a fun game and you can like it all you want,my rant was that its not a strategy game.
ALso when i said i didnt want to insult you i meant i didnt want to bundle you with normals.
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