>>43318
The only good reason I've seen for adopting rust is that it eliminates the need for cmake. But I agree with you, the "rust community" is absolutely atrocious and, at least in the past, they would go on crusades and try and get people to "convert" to rust, which obviously would never happen since they're both obnoxious and people don't wanna learn another language. While C++ isn't ideal by any strech of the imagination, there is never going to be a complete overhaul of the current software world like the people who parade around these new languages seem to think unless something comes out that can be very easily picked up by someone who somewhat knows C++ and existing projects can easily integrate with it.

>>43366
I like C (and maybe C++ in small doses) precisely because packaging is "hard" so it forces projects to be selective about their dependencies. Every time I install a rust project it installs a gazillion dependencies, just like any node project. That's technically not a fault of the language, but the community sure doesn't seem to care about minimizing "bloat".

>>43366
I don't think the "C++ community" is anything to write home about. If you write something in Rust, you'll find a lot more supportive and helpful people, whereas with C++ it's mostly aging, indifferent drones who only use it for work.
>unless something comes out that can be very easily picked up by someone who somewhat knows C++
What about everybody under 30 who doesn't know C++? C++ is harder to pick up than Rust.

>>43367
C only makes sense when you have no other options. If you want to be a snob about languages, at least use a Lisp.

>>43367
I'm much more partial to C myself over anything else, aside from maybe HTML/CSS just due to how easy it is use it though I don't particularly enjoy web development that much, but that is mainly because C is the first language I learned.
I think the issue is that many modern projects assume that you are working in an optimal environment without any major restrictions along with the latest processor, SBC, or whatnot, and as such bloat isn't even anything they consider because they have as much space as they would need so installing a hundred different dependencies doesn't matter.
I think another issue is that it "just werks" at that very moment, no thought given to what will happen 3 or 4 years later when all those packages inevitablty have updates or start to become deprecated, then you are stuck in dependency hell and have to create a new environment downloading the exact versions they used, which then puts a limit on the actual usefulness of the code as you won't be able to use it should there by any major update to any of the core packages used.

Didn't mean to make 2 seperate posts.
>>43369
>anything to write home about
C++ is used in most projects. I'd say there really isn't a "C++ community" the same way there is a Rust community since C++ is so ubiquitous, but I do agree that you would have to seek out someone who had a similar problem as you had and is willing to help if you happen to encounter a problem in C++ that can't be solved by AI or a copypasted answer with a snarky sarcastic comment accompanying it.
>What about everybody under 30 who doesn't know C++
C++, from my knowledge, is used in pretty much every single university for classes like DSA. While it may be true that many people aren't proficient in C++, although this can probably be extended to programming in general, C++ isn't some dying language that is maintained by a bunch of middle aged programmers as you seem to think. Most projects these days will use C++ in some capacity and all major tech companies use C++.
>C++ easier to learn than Rust
I haven't tried to learn Rust so I can't say that C++ is easier or harder to learn than Rust, but if you go through univesrity to get a Comp Sci degree, which is a requirement to get a programming job these days, you are going to be taught in C++ for a good portion of your classes, so most people will have more exposure and be more familiar with C++ than they will be with Rust. This doesn't really answer the question, but I do think it is worth taking into account that there is little chance for people to be exposed to Rust unless they seek it out, as it isn't as widespread as C++ is.
>C only makes sense when you have no other options
C is much simpler and easier to use than C++, in my opinion at least. While you are correct that in the field of sotware it isn't likely to be used, it is used a lot in embedded systems.

>>43370
>modern projects assume that you are working in an optimal environment without any major restrictions along with the latest processor, SBC, or whatnot
You don't have to use libraries. Just write everything yourself like you would with C. Except you'll at least have stuff as basic as hashmaps built-in, you wont have to deal with null-terminated strings, and you wont have to do manual memory management. None of these restrictions are necessary for computers younger than 35. And if you're really, really constrained on resources for some reason, might as well use assembly at that point.

>>43370
> working in an optimal environment without any major restrictions
Oh yeah that's a good point. Both Go and Rust aggressively drop support for older platforms, and good luck using it with "non-standard" architectures.

With regard to dependencies & updates, I think the above results in an implicit assumption that devs will always use the "latest" version of things. So there is never any effort made to ensure compatibility with different platforms, or even backwards compatibility between API versions. This is technically not a language limitation, but newer languages clearly have a "golden path" they want you to stick to.

>>43371
>C++, from my knowledge, is used in pretty much every single university for classes like DSA.
>if you go through university to get a Comp Sci degree... you are going to be taught in C++ for a good portion of your classes
I graduated from Rutgers last year with a comp sci degree and NONE of my classes used C++. The intro course and data structures used Java. Computer Architecture used C. Algorithms had no programming and was just theory/pseudo-code. The electives I took either used python or java, or just let us choose what to use(Go in my case).

https://kevinmunger.substack.com/p/in-the-belly-of-the-mrbeast

Note that I haven't watched even one of those videos, but there was a paragraph there that really piqued my interest:

>we have to accept that younger generations—precisely the people who have been raised on quantified audience feedback for their every creative gesture—have an unrecognizable conception of "authenticity" [quotes mine].
>The ideal [YouTube] creator has no distance between themselves and their persona. They have been interpellated by audience metrics; their subjective experience already takes audience reactions into account.
>Or more simply, YouTubers are not “Creators” but Creations. Audiences, rationalized by the platform, and the vloggers who upload the videos those audiences consume are not separable either theoretically or empirically.

In a sense, the artist himself is now becoming shaped by the audience's expectations of what the art should be. I'm vividly reminded of Mayonaka Punch here, how Masaki's expectations of what the audience wants refracts back and shapes her own personality. When she makes those videos, she's not putting on a "facade" that can be taken off later, she genuinely loses a piece herself like a ship of theseus built by A/B testing.

>>43411
Not just art, pretty much everything. That's the crowd for you. Massive crowds stomp everything into ground, so if you give them voice in what they get, it's over. They will level everything to their own level. There's nothing that can be done, either.

>>43412
What you're saying has always been true: people catering to expectations. But I think it's only with youtubing/vtubing whatnot that the artist becomes the art piece himself. And when this happens, the artist actually no longer has any agency whatsoever: they aren't just "catering" to the crowd, but they're being puppeted by it. The metaphor of "selling your soul" is no longer just a metaphor.

>>43411
>I'm vividly reminded of Mayonaka Punch here
I also watched that. Can't recall there being much exploration of how the characters act differently in the videos compared to normally. The vampires just seem to not care and act no differently from usual. Masaki opted to not appear on camera for most of the series. Whether she put up a facade, or her personality actually changed before the story's beginning, wasn't clear to me. The overall message though seemed to be "don't let worries about how you're perceived ruin the things you enjoy".

The unheard of popularity of MrBe*** is a complete enigma to me. He seems like an incredibly generic, slightly creepy man; so I don't understand why even gen alpha would like him. Everyone I've spoke to in real life about him agrees. I suspect most of his audience is either Indians or bots, and he's an industry plant who's artificially given every advantage. Like an inorganic replacement for pewdiepie or something.

I saw just one of his vidoes. He was running a fast food drive way, and giving every customer a bunch of money. Why billions of people would find that unfunny and slightly vulgar concept interesting, is baffling, and its not his personality, or sense of humor they're coming for. It's like an alien's idea of what people would find entertaining. They like money, right? So here's a video of some man giving random people lots of it. Human viewers will vicariously experience the joy of obtaining large sums of money for minimal effort.

Post edited on 15th Jan 2025, 5:59pm

>>43414
>act differently in the videos compared to normally
Are you the same person who wrote the brief review of it in /an/? To me the whole crux of the show was an exploration of the way content, creators, and audience intertwine. The vampires don't care because they're not really the creator. Masaki not appearing on camera doesn't matter, because it's not an exploration of facades, it goes one level deeper at the exploration of how the _audience_ shapes the creator if that makes sense.

If you wanted to do an exploration of facades, I'd maybe point at WataYuri, and the interplay between the facades they put on and their own personalities. But in this case, there's no facade being put on. Put it this way, that article has a quote "Social media does not create powerful Influencers but rather powerless marionettes, dancing jerkily to quantified audience tugs." That describes Masakichi to a tee. This isn't some "work" facet of personality that can be easily separated from her "normal" life. "NewTubing" _defines_ Masaki's personality, and she suffers for it.

>don't let worries about how you're perceived ruin the things you enjoy
I personally don't feel this is quite the right theme. I'd say this for YoruKura, but not quite for this show. Because "NewTubing" is fundamentally audience-centered. Masaki doesn't film things _she_ enjoys, but what the audience enjoys. After her catharsis, she doesn't just opt to spend relax and spend time with her friends, but she vows to double down on NewTubing. Rather to me, in that cathartic moment Masaki realized that she ultimately was but a marionette, and all that drama and flaming of the audience is simply "part of the play" that she chose to partake in. My evidence for this is when Masaki accidentally meets in real-life that person who wrote flaming comments, and it turns out that she was a follower of Masaki. This is the turning point for Masaki, upon which she reflects and realizes that everything, even the drama with Harikiri sisters, is ultimately dispassionately "manufactured" fodder, not targeted betrayal.

And if it feels tragic, I think it's supposed to be. It's a stark reflection of attention-bait dominated society. No one would want friends like the Harakiri sisters who'd throw you under the bus. And yet in real-life that's already playing out, "youtube drama" spills over into all places. How much of that is "real", how much of that is "manufactured", and is there even a difference between the two, if youtubers themselves have become the audience's puppets. If they're putting on a "facade" 24x7, with no separation between "work" and "personal life", is there even a meaningful "personal life"?

>>43415
>Are you the same person who wrote the brief review of it in /an/?
Nope. That was someone else. I heard about it from tc though.
>"NewTubing" _defines_ Masaki's personality, and she suffers for it.
I thought it was odd how the context of Masaki's life was never touched upon. Like how she and the Harikiri sisters, whose channel isn't that big, made enough money to afford renting a whole house in Tokyo without having "real" jobs. Or how her family reacted to her not pursuing higher education and instead trying to become an internet celebrity.
>all that drama and flaming of the audience is simply "part of the play" that she chose to partake in
But why does she do it? In real life, I assume the motivation is just money, or attention-seeking, but neither of those seemed to motivate Masaki. The way it was presented, was like there's something inherent to the act of making youtube videos that she enjoys.

Post edited on 15th Jan 2025, 11:29pm

>>43416
>But why does she do it?
Yeah that's a good question, which the show leaves a bit ambiguous. I don't think it's obvious that she "enjoys" it in the same way one "enjoys" watching anime. She clearly suffers most of the show, no one would call that "enjoyment. Rather she has some compulsion and "need" to be NewTuber. I think in the show there was some hint that she derives part of her self-worth from knowing that she is watched: seeing the number go up is proof of her value in the world and justifies her existence.

Even in real-life, why people bother YouTubing has always been a mystery: outside of the 1%, most vloggers probably don't get that rich, especially considering it's essentially a 24x7 job. I think it's similar there: people voluntarily make themselves into this puppet because being puppeted ironically makes them feel "alive", and it gives them purpose in life. Being with the audience makes them feel "wanted" in some sense, and there's a certain quantitativeness to it where you can measure your value in likes and subscribes. It's a tragic existence being a dancing monkey, but I guess it is one way to quell existential angst.

>>43374
It's strange we have such different experiences. I did not get a computer science degree myself, although I am nearly finished getting an Engineering degree, there was a bit of an overlap between the core CS classes and Engineering since the school allowed you to take some CS courses to fufill requirements, and in the case of computer engineering you were taking the core classes as a part of your degree. All of the DSA, SysNet, and Discrete Structure classes were taught in C++, and the electives might use python or something of the sort, but python wasn't really used for the most part.
Even in the Electrical Engineering side, you were far more likely to use something like Matlab (which I know isn't a programming language), than you were to use python. The only ones that used it were electives as far as I am aware. I was in a state school in the South, but from what I have heard it is fairly common to have most of your core CS classes in C++.
I understand using C for computer architecture, but using things like Java for core classes sounds really stupid. I could understand using Python as well for electives, because it makes things like computer vision and anything involving AI much easier to deal with (at the cost of efficiency of course). Not to mention it makes it something that can be somewhat difficult, especially for undergraduate students, into a topic that can be picked up as well as taught in the span of 3-4 months, but otherwise it seems like using things like Java, or not having standardized languages for classes, is just setting the students up for failure as they will have to do a ton of learning on their own of fudamental concepts instead of having it taught to them.
I suppose my school was quite odd as well in that the main CS teacher was a strong proponent of AI and strongly encouraged people to use GPT sites to help them learn, not that he brushed off helping people but he just really likes that stuff.

>>43423
My guess as to this difference, is that either in the 90s and 2000s, there was big transition away from C++ in the largest universities, that may not have occurred in smaller institutions. Or, it's just a Rutgers quirk.

I agree that Java is a poor choice, but it's still very much in use within the professional world. More-so than C++ based on the job listings I've seen, which I think I've already wrote. There's really no perfect middle ground in terms of modernness, industry-adoption, performance, learning curve, and paradigm neutrality(you can comfortably write procedural, OOP and functional code).

Very interesting interview with Deepseek CEO: https://www.chinatalk.media/p/deepseek-ceo-interview-with-chinas

I like their swagger. There's two interesting points of note: their compute restrictions likely force innovation on architecture, whereas western BigCo can just keep buying more nvidia gpus. I likely suspect that there's a geopolitical angle at play though. If China wants to actually become some sort of soft-power, then it makes sense to do what they're doing.

>>43429
I'm rooting for them. Too bad Japan doesn't seem to be doing anything of note.

>>43430
It seems they're (Softbank) more content to just watch from afar and fund the US
https://openai.com/index/announcing-the-stargate-project/

I think the above is an implicit admission of defeat that they're out of clever ideas and are just banking on compute scaling to take them the rest of the way there.

>>43431
>>43430
Japan isn't completely sleeping on AI.
>Japan mulls 65 bln USD in public support for AI, chips
https://english.news.cn/asiapacific/20241112/9e9f532a6c564d5ca2c20552989dd7bb/c.html
I am cautiously optimistic given Deepseek's success with the orders of magnitude smaller funding/compute.
With that said, screw softbank. They are one of the japanese companies with the capital to fund a japanese AI effort and they choose to kneel to america instead.

>>43432
>and they choose to kneel to america instead
As if they have much choice. It's easier to never get owned by another state than to get free of them.

>>43432
> Deepseek's success with the orders of magnitude smaller funding/compute.
It's not purely a matter of funding though, the reason why Deepseek is relatively successful has two other factors:

* Drawing and cultivating existing local talent. China has always been a "dabbler" in ML research, especially in implementing or productionizing existing research, but up until now they've never really been innovators on the theory side. And yet they have a good pool of people with sufficient raw math skill, so this is a ripe situation.

My vague impression is that Japan culturally really doesn't have any similar existing "interest" in the ML space. E.g. China has been a hotbed of ML accelerator startups, which can now synergize with what deepseek is doing. Japan certainly has the raw pool of capable students, but I haven't yet seen much presence in research or practice.

* Excellent execution: as also seen in ByteDance or Temu or whatever, they're already got their silicon valley equivalents, and have been pretty good in terms of execution and scaling, maybe even better than western BigCo. By contrast my impression was that Japan never really cultivated an ecosystem for software engineering despite being excellent at hardware and material engineering. I read once that software was looked as "lower" than hardware, so perhaps that might be related.

>>43429
This is causing quite a stir now. Seems like the perfect time to buy Nvidia. People are freaking out and selling, but on the 30th, the 50 series is coming out, so it'll probably go way up.

Post edited on 27th Jan 2025, 6:43am

Meanwhile linuxoids cozily use intel igpus and amd!

>>43437
>the 50 series is coming out, so it'll probably go way up.
It's likely already priced in, and consumer gpus are no longer the primary revenue stream

>>43439
The market isn't rational. Even this down-swing is a knee-jerk reaction. In that very interview, it said DeepSeek is funded by a HedgeFund which uses Nvidia's Hopper GPUs. There's also no good reason for ARM and Broadcom to be down, but they are.

Post edited on 27th Jan 2025, 2:11pm

>>43441
>for ARM and Broadcom to be down
If I had to give some post-hoc rationalization maybe it's just the usual geopolitic scare that "the Chinese" can actually innovate, so western companies don't have as much of a "moat" on ingenuity and technical acumen as they previously believed. Also I think DeepSeek mentioned somewhere that they're doing _something_ (either training or inference) with Huwawei ascend chips(?).

I think a lot of the stock growth was additionally based on an assumption of compute scaling being the only way forward. I.e. so long as "AI" companies keep getting funded (which doesn't seem to be slowing down), all that money will eventually end up in the hands of Nvidia. Which is obviously ludicrous, but when you have a money printer it's the easiest path to forward progress, and when it's what everyone thinks everyone else is doing, then you wouldn't want to bet in the other direction.

Not like I can afford anything anyway though. Maybe one day they'll make things optimized enough to the point that I can run it on a toaster.

For what it's worth: The only reason the China AI enslavement system is running faster than the American one is the fact that it's written mostly in C and machine code. There is nothing stopping American companies from writing theirs that way instead of doing it in Python.

>>43443
Out of all the hot takes I've seen around this, this takes the cake. At least make it sound like you know what you're talking about by claiming they hand-coded their entire pipeline in PTX or something.

>>43444
I thought it was really funny.

>>43444
I just hate python man

>>43445
If it was meant as humor, it's too blunt and crude for my tastes. It needs to be almost believable (which is why I suggested rewriting the take to mention PTX instead, both since it has a nugget of truth in there and it seems more impressive than it is at first glance)

>>43447
>It needs to be almost believable
I've seen enough similar sentiments elsewhere to make his post very believable.

>>43443
>>43444
Was this supposed to be a joke? I read it at face value and found it insightful.

Since when does python run fast?

>>43450
>>43449
Ok at this point I really can't tell if >>43443 was supposed to be a joke mocking the misunderstanding of normalfags suddenly learning about DeepSeek for the first time while knowing nothing about the field of ML, or if it's just actual cluelessness.

The R1, V3, and DeepSeekMath papers are very well written and approachable (compared to the usual impenetrable academia stuff). For your own sake just skim the source materials and stop listening to what people say online.

>>43443
>>43442
I think on a more holistic note, the reason why the West is scared about DeepSeek is because it's a model they can't control. Yes it's true that their team is very clever given their constraints, but if it was solely just a matter of losing marketshare DeepSeek would have already been crushed (after all, the bitter pill is that "gpus go brr", i.e. all of the cleverness can just be made up for with more compute). The fact that they haven't even released their O3 model publicly shows that they probably don't care about revenue or marketshare in any way, the only real threat is lack of control.

In the west "AI safety/alignment" is just a thin euphemism for propaganda/censorship. There's no way that they're spending all this effort on guardrails just to prevent people from writing smut, most likely they realized that by using erotica as a test-case, they can have horny anons serve as a motivated and free red team.

https://near.blog/personality-basins/

>>43532
I read this, and while the author does have an interesting concept, it feels like a "dude, just go outside and you won't be sad" sort of article but with a scientific twist.
That's probably just my resentment towards mentally healthy people seeping through and clouding my judgement though.

I don't use the word Orwellian that often but this is certainly Orwellian.
https://ai.meta.com/research/publications/brain-to-text-decoding-a-non-invasive-approach-via-typing/

>>43562
oh fuck. that just reminds me to keep a knife on the pulse and be ready to open my veins any minute. cyberpunk was supposed to be fun but uhh i guess it's just gonna fuck us recluses

>>43562
I don't get why this bothers you. Do you not want paralyzed people to be able to communicate?

>>43564
The positives are good, yes. Think of how else such technology could be used.

>>43564
Like >>43565 said, you have to think about all the ways tech can be used. Indeed, this will help paralyzed people, at the cost of making the existence of something worse than Thinkpol feasible.

Why do I have to live in these times? Was there at least a single period in human history when you could live without expecting to be fucked any day?

>>43567
Being a serf was pretty cashmoney.

>>43568
Factually, we're still serfs, more or less. You could appeal to medicine and better overall sanitary but that's only so we can live longer thus produce more goods for the demigods.

But in case it gets too stuffy maybe /tat/ is a better place to discuss this particular flavor of shit

>>43569
Most of us aren't working in the fields, and I think that is a necessary qualifier for something to be considered serfdom or whatever term you prefer.