I came across this video about art that gave me a lot of food for thought, as someone who's made a few failed attempts over the years to "get into" art. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMynlk7KhXs To summarize: • Commonly repeated learning techniques in the west, e.g. thinking about everything in terms of geometric shapes or scaffolds, are actually debilitating(in general, but especially for otaku art). These are maliciously propagated as a form of ladder kicking; art instructors will draw half-appealing examples, ostensibly because of these techniques, as a way of fooling people into thinking they're useful. "Western art is essentially: how good can we be, while insidiously fucking things up"? • Saito Naoki is a good source of information. • Most westerns who attempt to learn "anime-style" drawing, will fail because of all this misdirection and discouragement, which are institutionalized. At best their style will be a "hybrid" of the two. Elements of otaku art may be present, but not the technique. Many of them compensate for this failure by convincing themselves their style is actually superior, or that they weren't "meant" to make the kind of art that inspired them to draw in the first place. This is exacerbated by all the people who validate these delusions. • The two most important methods for learning how to actually draw otaku art, are meticulously and mindfully copying animation settei, and gesture studies • When copying settei, do it on a line-by-line basis with the goal of accuracy. As you do it, think about why the lines "work" together, and why the mistakes you make don't. Don't do any rough sketching, because the purpose is to understand and observe the drawing, not imitating the process used to create it in the first place. The spacing between eyes is especially important. "You're trying to memorize all of the key shapes and... You're trying to figure out exactly how and why they work". "Seeking accuracy will inevitably lead to understanding how and why these shapes work". • Pursuing originality is counter-productive. You will inevitably create an original style just by virtue of you being different from anyone else. It's not a replacement for learning how to do things the right way. All pursuing originality in style does, is remove a standard by which to compare yourself to, and creating the illusion of progress. • All of the weird rituals some people swear by, like not using the lasso tool, eraser or layers, or listening to music, are nonsense. • https://www.youtube.com/@hidechannel2/videos is a good source of information on gesture. Proportion isn't too important in a gesture study. The direction of things in relation to each other, is the most important aspect. • Do original drawings too, and keep in mind the "essentials" you learned from copying. This will solidify your knowledge and provide you with questions to ask while studying others' art. Now what do I think of all this? It's a bit conspiratorial, but I can't deny any of it. On top of that, trying to copy things(albeit from real-life), was how I first attempted to draw in elementary school. It make some sense that the best way to learn is based on observation and training intuition based on patterns gleamed from it, rather than strange, tortured abstractions, and exercises divorced from what you're trying to accomplish.
>>3575 >>3574 >>3576 I've found small, decent youtube channels dedicated to anime that suffer from the same problem. They certainly care about the medium and the content is informative but their style, as you pointed out, prevents me from recommending them. Most of them are young but I don't believe it has much to do with age; Ego problems are common among otaku, and the type to start a youtube channel to gain recognition is more likely to suffer from them. Eccentric or not, it is off putting.
>>3577 >he decries the fall of the western otaku My impression is that he feels there was never western otaku(groups of amateurs creating otaku media). There were inklings of that, but never anything substantial, so there was no "fall". He makes videos about art and writing(most of which are paywalled), and is working on a game, to try and kindle a western otaku movement. I think it's pretty unfair to equate Howard with guys like Gigguk, with their "anime is trash and so am I" mantra, because his sense of humor aligns with 4chan's too closely.Post edited on 29th May 2024, 11:57pm
>>3578 I wish more people went back to blogging. There's only one otaku blog I've found [if you know any others, please let me know] that's still active (Infinite Mirai blog) and it's really a delight to read the perspectives there in terms of thematic analysis and emotional nuances I may have missed. But being a blogger over a youtuber isn't as glamorous (or profitable).
>>3579 (Hopefully this is all not too off topic, OP if you feel the thread is being derailed we could continue on /tat/.) > there was never western otaku(groups of amateurs creating otaku media) I suppose if you define otaku narrowly in this sense of content creator then it might be true. But this seems a really restrictive definition, by those standards even most "Japanese otaku" wouldn't be true otaku unless they were arists/writers. >to try and kindle a western otaku movement. Isn't this just a matter of critical mass though? My perspective is that western otaku have always existed in small numbers, it's just that as anime has become increasingly popular overall they become an increasingly smaller proportion. The majority of people today who might consider themselves "anime fans" probably don't even care about the underlying aspects and just watch anime to pass the time, so I don't think it's realstic to believe they would ever become inspired to create similar doujin groups. And conversely for the western otaku that do exist, the barriers to creating things seem mostly a lack of skill and not enough people to sustain things (there's plenty of programmers, but not enough artists). Perhaps this new game if successful might inspire a new wave of similar indie content, I don't know. But overall the larger barrier seems to be that people in the west just don't care deeply about things (seen in e.g. the success of things like DDLC), nor do they _want_ to care about such things.
Copy attempt of https://img3.gelbooru.com/images/82/14/82144166bdc3476848462478ad595403.png There's all sort of inaccuracies I only notice after uploading it and comparing to the original side-by-side. Also, because I'm looking down at the paper while drawing, that perspective distorts my perception some. More reason to get a tablet.
>>3581 (addendum: does he mention anything about Katawa Shoujo? That seems like some precedent here in terms of otaku-media created in the west).
>>3583 Yes, he's talked about it on stream a few times and sees it as a one-off that unfortunately didn't snowball into anything.Post edited on 30th May 2024, 12:39am
>>3584 Doesn't that lend credence to my hypothesis though that the blocker to such content being created in the west is mainly one of getting people with the right skillset together? It happened in 2007-2010 because at that time most people on forums/imageboards likely still deep otaku interests, so there was a high enough concentration of people with the right skillset to get things done. If places today on the internet for people to get together and genuinely _discuss_ otaku content are sparse, I don't see how you could expect to have a concentration of people to create it.
>>3585 I don't expect anything, but I don't see the point in being defeatist either. I've become encouraged to give art another chance, which is enough for me. If you want a more direct response, you should ask him yourself.Post edited on 30th May 2024, 7:45am
>>3580 I really like the sakugabooru blog https://blog.sakugabooru.com/
From https://img3.gelbooru.com/images/c5/3b/c53b3829a0ba2c9370c63dfbf6765999.png
>>3589 Your skill is good.
An attempt at an original. This marks a month of drawing, although I could have been more diligent. Should have done more original stuff, but I was pretty nervous about it.
>>3591 Need wider waist. Nevermind face, drawing faces is like voluntarily hell.
In highschool, I tried learning to draw by copying photos of netsuke, and that's all I did. I re-did one of those for fun and to compare myself from back then. old: https://uboachan.net/o/res/4623.html#4756
>>3556 I did this one again. The head to body ratio is messed up, but otherwise it's an improvement.
Still at it. This is a somewhat different type of practice, where I try to draw everything(except hair) with straight lines. The point is to focus on direction and angles rather than precise details. This one still took me a long time cause the subject matter is complicated.
Another redo. old: https://uboachan.net/o/res/4623.html#4778
quickie copyPost edited on 17th Jun 2024, 9:04pm
another, not that quick
from keijo's settei
I got a drawing tablet, an intuous pro medium. Didn't get the large because my desk wouldn't fit it. Despite being "used" and sold for less than half off new, it's pretty much in mint condition. Directly from Wacom. Anyway, there is a learning curve. It's hard to connect lines together without it looking "sketchy", and even holding the pen is taking getting used to. My hand kinda hurts actually from tensing up. Someone gave me the tip of readjusting the mapping, to make the full tablet size correspond to the on-screen canvas. Hopefully that'll help.
>>3600 ms paint doodle
Tried drawing with my elbow/shoulder instead of wrist. Digital sure is tough to get used to.
Another digital copy.
>>3604 ooh, bonus points for drawing kisara. i love her!
>>3605 Never watched Engage Kiss. It looks interesting.
>>3606 Fair warning: if you can't tolerate love triangles, do not watch.
These notes are a goldmine: https://files.catbox.moe/r4lxyx.zip Taken from: https://kemono.su/fanbox/user/57217664
>>3608 I enjoyed reading those even though I don't know anything about drawing.
>>3609 Well, you know something now.
Rusty copy.
trying hard
>>3614 Nice pose.
>>3614 Looks like a very soft and cuddly body...
>>3553 I've somehow found that video myself a while ago already so it's curious to see it being shared. I've wanted to "get into" art for a while, but I failed or got demotivated in the few attempts I made. Currently I'm feeling a bit inspired so I want to ask some questions. 1. Should I use Clip Studio Paint, or is it fine to use Krita or another program (I prefer to not use closed source software)? Are there any specific brushes I should use, etc? 2. I have what some would call "a small Osu pad". Is it fine enough for now or should I buy a bigger tablet ASAP? 3. If the lines I draw come out squiggly (especially horizontal), should I use a brush smoother (and how much?), or should I practice on being able to draw neat lines (and how?)? 4. This may all sound weird or dumb, but is using a desk non-negotiable? In my current situation I don't really have a desk and I have to use my computer on the floor. Should I not bother with drawing at all before I am able to use a desk? (The drawing squiggly lines thing mentioned in 3 was not caused by this, as I used a desk back then)
>>3620 > If the lines I draw come out squiggly not an artist but this seems like a bad digitizer or bad software? Can you draw straight lines on paper?
>>3620 Motivation is the hardest part, as you can tell from me going months without posting anything. 1. Krita is fine. This guys uses it https://www.pixiv.net/en/users/60562229 This is a pay-walled video, but it should give you a good idea if you want access to the others. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHLCEr_dcts 2. Larger is better. Your technique and health will benefit from it. Howard uses a Cintiq Pro, but HUION stuff is good enough. I personally think a screen-less model is better since you wont be looking downward all the time, which is better for your neck. 3. I would say not to use compensation and just practice a lot. You can ask Howard directly on his discord or while he streams. 4. I don't really know how to answer this. You can practice without a desk, but at some point I'd recommend getting one.
>>3620 1.1. Whatever you please. 1.2. Nothing specific, but familiarising yourself with brush manipulation and finding what works best for you is good. 2. Better to spend time with what you have than to spend money ASAP. 3. Both. I personally view that smoothing is mostly to compensate for the hand-eye disconnect of drawing digitally, aswell as things like surface texture difference of a tablet and real life materials like paper and et cetera. 4. Shouldn't matter much.
>>3622 >discord Anon...
>>3624 Yeah, I know. I've learned to live with it. Even Tohno uses discord.
>>3625 Yeah and it's a constant source of frustration, misery, and disappointment in the human race. I've bounced around countless "servers" looking for signs of life in that hell scape, only to be met with floods of stupid emoji and looped animations of ugly cats. It's jam packed with brain rotten children who struggle to with even basic communication. The typical conversation there is people spamming greetings and having no idea what to say when the other person says hello in return. It's a platform where users are literally scared by sentences longer than three words. I've had better conversations with chat bots than the average brain rotten discord user I keep beating my head against that wall because I've done my share of channel hopping on IRC and outside of our own channel I've found it's pretty much all dead. The only remotely decent discord servers are going to be private ones that are hard to get into. I'll admit I did find one I really liked full of refugees from old yuri and aikatsu threads on 4chan, I found myself extremely greatful to be able to talk to like minded older otaku who didn't just have entry level tastes and could actually communicate like real humans, but even that got annoying with it's constant Filipino propaganda and selfies with cars or cosplayers, then I noticed people were blocking me so I stopped participating and went to find other servers only to be reminded just how terrible they all are. I tried making my own and aiming it towards older more legitimate otaku, thinking surely there must be some lost souls out there searching for a place to call home and not knowing where else to look, but that mostly just attracted idiots too.
>>3626 Probably should be branched to /so/ or something, but I don't think any like-minded otaku would join discord servers, since they probably tried it once and saw the same thing you did. Plus discord is just not a good platform, very unfriendly to anyone privacy minded since they require phone number to register, and have their bloated website.
>>3622 >>3623 Thanks. Now, what are the best websites for getting settei (for free)? And generally what percentage of anime can you find settei of online? There's a bit of a paradox of choice, so are there any particular anime that you would recommend to do first? I think Howard said in the video that you should copy stuff from the last several years, so that should be kept in mind.
>>3628 Here are some good pages. No idea about percentage available. https://setteidreams.net/settei/vividred-operation/ https://setteidreams.net/settei/harukana-receive/ http://setteidreams.net/settei/keijo/index.php https://setteidreams.net/artbooks/saenai-animation-works/ Particular anime doesn't much because a lot of things are universal across art styles. Starting from less-clothed people is a good idea though because the way clothing flows is informed by what's underneath. Aside from settei, picking a "target artist" whose style you want to replicate is also recommended. I don't think minutia is important at first though. What is important is getting a feel for gesture and how the body is constructed.
>>3629 Thank you. Now, about the method... are you really supposed to do the same thing from the very beginning, which is looking at a target picture and trying to imitate it as closely as possible by eye? Or would it be better to start with direct tracing and after some time move onto imitation by eye? Or maybe some sort of hybrid where you try to imitate sections by eye, and directly compare them with the target picture and fix major fuckups before moving to the next section?
>>3630 Don't just trace. There's no point where you'll be "good enough" to start copying by eye. Howard has suggested tracing AFTER you copy by eye, if you're really off the mark. I think doing it all in one go is better than sectioning things arbitrarily. The drawing exists as a whole, not in neat divisions. As you draw something, keep the other parts in mind. That's how you keep things proportional and with the correct gesture.
I realized that for my purposes I need to learn some SD, and if anything that would have more priority than general art. Has Howard ever talked about SD in his Patreon videos or whatever? Is it easier than general art? Can it be learned before general art or is that unadvised?
>>3632 If by SD, you mean chibi, I can't recall him mentioning it specifically. What I think though, is that any otaku art style is going to share the same principles. If drawing chibi characters is what motivates you, just go for it.
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