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25236 No. 25236 [Edit]
How would you like the world to be? If the world could be changed completely, what would one in which you were happy look like?

Rule: It can't be 2d; the fundamental construction of the universe has to stay the same. You can remove your knowledge of 2d if necessary.
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>> No. 25238 [Edit]
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25238
I would like to live in a renaissance world that was futuristic at the same time, sort of like it kept traditions, values, clothing and architecture from that era but mixed modern technology in with it. Kind of like Japan but to a greater degree.
>> No. 25239 [Edit]
>>25236
Star Trek, I guess.
>> No. 25240 [Edit]
>>25238
I get the architecture part, but what else is appealing about a feudal, church dominated society? I wouldn't describe nipland like that either.
>> No. 25241 [Edit]
>>25240
That era is kind of leaving feudalism(not that I actually have a problem with feudalism), I don't think the church ever had as much power as people assume either. Unless you mean the nature of religions control on society in general but I don't mind that because it encourages people to act in a more moral and upright way. Pretty much everything about it is appealing, it's hard to go into specifics.

Japan is more like it than the west is but no, it's not wholly like it hence why I said to a greater degree.
>> No. 25242 [Edit]
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25242
>>25241
>I don't think the church ever had as much power as people assume
On art/creative expression it certainly did. As with marriage. Violin makers around that time were hounded by them for being too independent. The Church questioned them and tried to get them to dip their violins in holy water to prove they weren't "satanic". Paganini's son couldn't find a place to bury him. That was already after the renaissance, during the enlightenment, when they had less power. People didn't actually treat each other better in day to day life. Aristrocats could act polite, lower class people didn't bother.

Would you be happier if your life was more restricted?
>> No. 25243 [Edit]
>>25242
The Church also tried to ban crossbows and tournaments, they had more soft power than they do know but there was little they could physically do to make force things to change.

>People didn't actually treat each other better in day to day life.

That would depend on what you define as being treated better. But I am not concerned whether I am treated better or not.

>Would you be happier if your life was more restricted?

It's not really more restrictive, well of course in some ways it is but in others it certainly isn't. In modern society what we wear, what we say, what we do and even what views we have are all restricted by various soft mechanisms. There are still a great amount of hard restrictions as well, it's nowhere near as easy to just do some random thing now. You want to travel? Well you need money, a passport and a visa. You want to join some random army and go on adventures? Well you need to be a citizen of that country and even then the chances of you getting in and seeing adventure are small. There are far more barriers that physically cannot be overcome or can only be overcome with great difficulty, even if I was a serf(which were dying out by then) and in a place that had the serf restriction laws, I could easily just leave even if it was against the law. Nobody could do that much to stop me, or at least not to the degree they can now.
>> No. 25244 [Edit]
>>25243
>in others it certainly isn't
Such as? In terms of artistic freedom and upward mobility, there is more freedom now then there was then. A renaissance society with free access to the internet wouldn't really be a renasissance society. I can't picture how that would work. I think you're preception of it is like a fantasy adventure. You could become anabaptist even now.
>> No. 25245 [Edit]
>>25244
There was more artistic freedom and upwards mobility than you assume. People were writing books on black magic and drawing all kinds of smut, many peasants rose to become quite well off as well. It's like today, upwards mobility is possible and happens but the majority don't move up. Internet would not change it from being a renaissance society.
>> No. 25246 [Edit]
>>25245
>writing books on black magic
From what I know, those were more scholarly than instructional.
>drawing all kinds of smut
For rich people before mass printing of images, which came qute a bit later. Also, on I Modi,
>also known as The Sixteen Pleasures
>The engravings were published by Marcantonio in 1524, and led to his imprisonment by Pope Clement VII and the destruction of all copies of the illustrations
>I Modi were then published a second time in 1527, now with the poems that have given them the traditional English title Aretino's Postures, making this the first time erotic text and images were combined, though the papacy once more seized all the copies it could find
>the censorship was so strict that no complete editions of the original printings have ever been found
>In the 17th century, certain Fellows of All Souls College, Oxford, engaged in the surreptitious printing at the University Press of Aretino's Postures, Aretino's De omnis Veneris schematibus and the indecent engravings after Giulio Romano. The Dean, Dr. John Fell, impounded the copper plates and threatened those involved with expulsion
Some more
>L'Ecole des Filles
>The author remains anonymous to this day, though a few suspected authors served light prison sentences for supposed authorship of the work

Post edited on 1st Feb 2020, 6:55pm
>> No. 25247 [Edit]
>>25246
Depends which one. King James the first's is scholarly/public awareness whilst strongly condemning it, others are wholly instructional.

>For rich people before mass printing of images, which came qute a bit later.

So it has nothing to do with creative freedom then does it, it has more to do with technology. There is quite a bit before that and in other contexts as well. Many churches even have vulgar carvings on them.


>Also, on I Modi,

Also on that.

>Romano was not prosecuted since—unlike Marcantonio—his images were not intended for public consumption.

It seems more to do with the audience. If you were to draw a hentai loli rape painting for your local football club I don't see that would go down well ether.
>> No. 25248 [Edit]
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25248
>>25247
>it has more to do with technology
Yeah, technology ultimately enables freedom of expression. It can be used to restrict people, but as long as technology exists and grows, greater freedom is inevitable.
>If you were to draw a hentai loli rape painting for your local football club I don't see that would go down well ether.
In my perfect world it would go down fine and there wouldn't be any local football club.

Post edited on 1st Feb 2020, 7:24pm
>> No. 25249 [Edit]
>>25248
>but as long as technology exists and grows, greater freedom is inevitable.

I don't know about that, particularly not in today's times.
>> No. 25250 [Edit]
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25250
>>25236
I like to imagine the afterworld is some place like YKK. There's not too much people and no one worries about anything, all it's decadent but since there's few people there's more than enough resources, also all the entertainment accumulated for centuries. So civilization without (too many) humans. I think what makes our wourld so shit is overpopulation and because of that "hell is in the others" makes us necessarily unhappy.
>> No. 25251 [Edit]
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25251
>>25236
>what would one in which you were happy look like?
>rule: has to be fundamentally the same universe
It wouldn't look like anything then, since such a thing doesn't exist. This place is a shithole precisely because of those fundamental rules. If you can't change the recipe, you can't change the dish that comes out. Though if pressed to choose one small possible change I'd take a world where I could get my hands on an experience machine and spend the rest of my days in blissful stupor of unreality.

>>25248
>as technology exists and grows, greater freedom is inevitable.
If that were true then we ought to be significantly qualitatively more free than our primitive ancestors, and this does not seem to me to be the case. True in quite a few measures we can be said to be more free. As the costs of doing and accessing many things have fallen away due to technology making our labors more efficient. But in many other areas technology through both necessity and rent-seeking serves to restrict our freedoms. Take surveillance for example, or bureaucratic coercion, or propaganda, or any other number of technologies which do nothing but strongly circumscribe our freedoms. These are features, not bugs. Technological society, especially higher-technological society must restrict freedom in order for it to function. The more complex a system, the less perturbations it can handle. So While natural restrictions on our freedom have somewhat dwindled, artificial restrictions have multiplied. Our newfound freedoms are also probably not commensurate with those we have lost. Technology has actually gradually eroded our capacity to freedom in order to perpetuate itself. This trend doesn't seem likely to change either, even as technology like automation make the system require fewer and fewer people to sustain itself it will only lead to a doctrine of double effect where the few freedoms people still possess become greater and greater risks to be curtailed all the more harshly.
>> No. 25253 [Edit]
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25253
>>25251
>If you can't change the recipe
You can change the recipe, just not the ingredients. Yeah, there's things an egg can't do, but there's many things it can. Do you think the laws of physics are the source of your unhappiness? You can't be happy unless those are changed?
>than our primitive ancestors
Who didn't live in a society. I don't really count pre-society type freedom.
>Take surveillance for example, or bureaucratic coercion, or propaganda
All temporary. Nations crumble, money runs out, people become disillusioned. The printing press still exists.
>do nothing but strongly circumscribe our freedoms
I don't think anything like that exists. Those are just ways of using technology. Anything technology does can be circumvented by other technology. Any attempt to restrict people will eventually fail. Technology might even make society obsolete if it allows people to be self-sufficient.

Post edited on 2nd Feb 2020, 5:53am
>> No. 25255 [Edit]
>>25251
>especially higher-technological society must restrict freedom in order for it to function. The more complex a system, the less perturbations it can handle
That reminds me almost exactly of Kaczynski's view on this.
>> No. 25256 [Edit]
>The more complex a system, the less perturbations it can handle
I don't think this is true. More complex systems have plenty of safeguards. A few errors and rogue elements don't disrupt the larger system, which is compartmentalized. Simpler system can break very easily. Compare a human body to a single cell organism, or an addition program to a game.
>> No. 25257 [Edit]
What you all fail to realize is that regardless of time or place, the freedom of people to do abnormal things will always be restricted by normal people. Is is a fundamental aspect of civilization that outliers must not be allowed to roam freely within it, else they will disrupt social solidarity and encourage lifestyles and mindsets that do not benefit the system. It doesn't matter whether they do it with religious spooks or technologically advanced hyper-mob rule. An abnormal person in a normal society will never be allowed to be free, not even to entertain himself with his imagination. We just were not made for this life.
>> No. 25262 [Edit]
I've lately been coming to peace with this myself, I don't know where I would be able to function and fully integrate but it's certainly not here. I have my fun here in this world sometimes, good enough.

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