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File 15380974902.jpg - (1.76MB , 1927x2720 , ironic_weeb_spotting.jpg )
31756 No. 31756 [Edit]
What are your thoughts on the rising number of "ironic weebs" and the increasing popularity and acceptance of otaku media & materials in the west's mainstream?
100 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
>> No. 32239 [Edit]
That's an interesting thought. I've thought about the differences between animals and humans for quite some time now, and find the parallels really fascinating. Especially the ones found in social behaviour. It's sometimes scary how similar we really are.
>> No. 32240 [Edit]
It's not really too much of a surprise when it comes to social order/packs: those traits like going with the crowd and posturing to be "alpha" were likely to be conserved due to the advantages they give.
>> No. 32279 [Edit]
Animals always try to disguise their true characteristics by displaying false, better characteristics; but evolution supposedly proceeds because mates pick their partners by observing desirable characteristics in them.
What a quandary
>> No. 32292 [Edit]
Does anyone else just get the feeling that ironic weebs are this generations "bronies" and that it will die out in a few years?
>> No. 32351 [Edit]
Probably when this generation of teens grows up and moves on like the haruhiism boom-era ones did. This is probably more about perception and age than any actual difference in the masses of western otaku.
>> No. 32352 [Edit]
It would be a nice thought but no. They may get bored of it and move on as they get older but another generation will take their place.
>> No. 32353 [Edit]
Which will probably be a different flavor, my point. A majority of this medium is marketed to young people after all.
>> No. 32354 [Edit]
I don’t think so. Even mainstream movie productions have to have some sort of token Japanese speaking person or samurai. Weaboo influence has been on the rise for a long time, and I don’t see it going away. Right now it’s at the state where every normal person knows about anime or kpop or knows someone who watches it, even if they don’t partake themselves. Ironically, if they stopped focusing on the weaboo aspect of it all, and treated it like any everyday thing, they’d be able to break into the mainstream with it. Instead, they’re stuck on the “look at me, nyaa” fanbase of the 90s, because the producers are all old people. Once they die, and my generation is running the show, I see a total move towards anime influences in the mainstream, because for us, it is not some foreign weird cat ears club; we grew up with it as a part of our normal lives. The influence will lag until our old age though, just like with voting, because in reality, the elderly control everything.
>> No. 32355 [Edit]
>Once they die, and my generation is running the show, I see a total move towards anime influences in the mainstream
They already are. A lot of the writers in Hollywood are fairly young hipsters, and they're the ones we can thank for a lot of the lgb sjw trash that's been flooding the industry lately.
>> No. 32356 [Edit]
I don't think most people grew up with anime as a significant part of their lives other than relatively simple shonen stuff.
>> No. 32358 [Edit]
File 155980010294.png - (48.87KB , 1091x680 , Otaku Stereotype vs Reality.png )
As someone who sometimes associates with people who are in the 18-26 age group, I think that while many people do use weeb interests as a social tool, that's not a particularly good reflection of how they consume material or their appreciation of the subject.

My take is that it's more a generational thing. In this group, there are two scanlators, several artists, several people with some working knowledge of Japanese, and plenty of people with an obsession with one genre or another. Do we have serious discussions about this, that can become heated debates? Sure, especially in smaller interactions. But in a larger setting, usually the discussion does take a more shallow and memetic flow to things, simply because it is more enjoyable to shoot the shit like that. That tail-end is what you see in public/online discourse.

As far as irony is concerned, I think it is an internalized defense to two things: the image of weebs as being easily bitter and prone to drama, and the previous generation's serious, pedantic, and unyielding nature online (which led to the former). I think DemolitionD was probably the first persona to really crystallize that attitude, but it had existed in one form or another for some time.
It is basically a rejection of the idea that anime was an inherently superior form of entertainment, and that one should proselytize, or at least defend, it's sanctity and purity while improving your understanding through obsession to other aspects of otaku/Japanese culture.
Rather, anime is what you make of it, it can have systemic flaws that you may or may not care about, it can be snycretized with Western and other cultural tradition or not, and it doesn't really matter whether you watch a series for the plot, or for the plot. Essentially, a rejection of gatekeepers and typesetting by outsiders, which in its laziest form, is expressed as not taking either force seriously. And when said gatekeepers and trolls try to shame you anyway for depreciating weebs? Well, own up to it, and say that you truly aren't taking anime seriously, you only like it ironically.

In my group above, none of us actually say we ironically like anime or anything like that, it's genuine. But when you have someone try to call you out for only reading hentai of a series when you never cared about the original, or say you're just a yaoi fujoshi because you solely consume yaoi and don't care about the rest, and you are OK with that, how are you supposed to respond to that?

Pic tangentially related
>> No. 32359 [Edit]
>how are you supposed to respond to that?
In that case there is no proper response because the exchange shouldn't have happened in the first place.
If hentai is all they care about then outside of threads dealing exclusively with pornography their opinions are worthless by default.
Their entire contribution to the discussion of source material is going to be an assortment of non sequiturs derived from their personal erotic preferences. The value of announcing whose tits they find to be the best is null.
It's the equivalent of walking into a meeting pantless and slapping their sloppy dick on the table. Contemplate if it makes them look less retarded if they ironically dab and moonwalk out of the room.
>> No. 32360 [Edit]
It seems only to be getting worse, my brother doesn't even watch anime and actually hates it but he often watches meme compilations on youtube(that's terrible in itself) and many of those memes will be western music over anime scenes, One Punch man or other anime references or other anime scenes. It's pretty much completely tied into meme culture now.
>> No. 32361 [Edit]
To be fair, in the west it has been for a long time. Do you not remember demotivational posters? I see japs posting clips on twitter because they find it of poor quality or funny but I don’t know if they have the same idea about that.
>> No. 32364 [Edit]
File 155985357386.jpg - (205.91KB , 1500x1500 , download.jpg )
You know what to do.
>> No. 32377 [Edit]
>In that case there is no proper response because the exchange shouldn't have happened in the first place.
Fair point, though I was more referring to the passive, non-direct "action-reaction" discourse that you see on both sides of the community, such as this thread.

>Contemplate if it makes them look less retarded if they ironically dab and moonwalk out of the room.
If it is generally understood that they are not doing it out of genuine appreciation of dabbing or moonwalking, that begs the question of why they are doing it in the first place.

In this case, I'd argue it is reverse gatekeeping. It's a trivial action that is not particularly triggering to most people, but also most fans of anime as well. Sure, people may be slightly perturbed by it, but if one's response is serious, straight-faced disapproval, it serves as a good signal that the one expressing disapproval is pedantic, and will try to control the discourse and moderate other topics of interest as well.

It's actually a good way to self-filter, since regardless of whether it is the former or the latter who is in the majority mindset, the addition of one or the other will inevitably lead to increased intra-group toxicity from fundamentally incorrigible values and norms. From you perspective, you are looking at you, your associates, and this one interloper. The interloper, meanwhile, has his own networks of associates independent of this context, and is a sum of their norms. By displaying the shibboleths of his norms upfront, you can quickly determine if he meets your group's molds, as can he (though this may not be consciously understood and appreciated).

An example of this litmus test is >>32084, though he is solely trying to belittle instead of actually having banter.

Really, I feel the contention of this whole thread is the emergence of a new generation of weebs who have rejected the norms and traditions of 00s weebs/Wapanese to such an extent that these groups are now self-segregated and find each other either disagreeable or to be ignored (>>31761), and the industry accommodations of the newer generation being seen as a slight to the former generation.
>> No. 32378 [Edit]
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I think you're arguing that there's nothing objectively worse about the behavior of "new weebs", which I don't agree with. There's nothing of lasting value in their discourse while threads from 10+ years ago are still interesting. Why is it that the behavior of old weebs is less reflective of their generation than new weebs? Old weebs were outsiders, their behavior didn't really reflect how normal people perceived things and acted. New weebs seem like just another flavor of zoomer.
>> No. 32379 [Edit]
File 156018591291.png - (75.34KB , 308x185 , crying_monster.png )

It kinda is a slight.

New weebs and new web users in general are mostly normals. They pushed for transformation of internet communities to their liking and for expulsion of the old weebs. Most of whom were outcasts and losers.
Of course normals have a massive numerical, social and financial advantage so they pushed us out easily.
Obviously the industry will pander to new weebs because that's where the money is.
And we're left with nothing... chased out of real life, chased out of mainstream forums and imageboards, finally chased out of weeb shit in general.

New weebs will move on. People like me won't because we can't.
What little comfort I once found in online company of fellow misfits was effectively destroyed by change. All I have now are internet ghost towns populated by a handful of users who are too depressed to respond.
Can you imagine what it's like to be this alone?
Try to imagine- being born into a life so inhospitable you have to run away and hide on the internet. There you miraculously find a strange space where you can finally belong, but soon you have to watch it all be taken away. Worst of all- taken away by the same sort of people who made you seek shelter online in the first place...

I take back what I said, it's not a slight. It's like being tarred, feathered and left for dead.
>> No. 32380 [Edit]
You can try moving on to something with a higher barrier of entry. There's probably Japanese boards like that still, and normals don't have the commitment to learn the language.
>> No. 32381 [Edit]
I've had similar thoughts before and tried to find others who've noticed the same thing. To my surprise I stumbled upon this blogpost which explained it rather well.

These people aren't just posers. Someone being a poser would imply they don't understand aspects of the group. They bought the clothes and started listening to the music but they're at least trying to fit in with the existing culture and doing a bad job at it. New weebs are worse than that. These people are gentrifiers. They don't give a damn about the culture or history of the community. For as "tolerant and accepting" as they boast about being they're very quick to toss aside anything they don't like with post-hoc rationalizations like it being "toxic".

No doubt my own generation changed the anime community (and in many ways for the worse) but I feel like there was a least a certain amount of respect paid to the old timers who'd been there longer than us. New weebs don't seem to care and I think it has largely to do with social standing. Real old timers (I'm thinking 80's here) were usually social rejects themselves or at the very least people who had the decency to treat rejects like human beings rather than a punching bag to make school shooting jokes about.

Weeb culture now... It's for everybody which has led to normie group dynamics overtaking large amounts of our communities and it's really quite a disaster. For content you can always just like what you like without caring that much about the broader cultural consensus. But community, that's a real kicker. People throw off signals all the time and despite what people say you really can judge a book by its cover. It won't be 100% accurate, but as a rule watch the kind of things people say, how they dress, etc and you can start to get an idea of what sort of person they are. It's why everyone hates posers: they come in without proper background or understanding and make all the signaling pointless. It becomes just another product with no connection to any shared cultural experience.
>> No. 32387 [Edit]
>I think Devil man crybaby is more of a concern.
Although personally I like the storyline, I did question whether the anime was truly Japanese. It has some awful lot of western influence and truthfully it could have been made better if it wasn't so degenerate.
>> No. 32393 [Edit]
Does Go Nagai make anything that’s not degenerate?
>> No. 32394 [Edit]
Yeah, this is guy who made Harenchi Gakuen, which basically set the stage for the casualized, comedic eroticism in manga, to much controversy in fact. Furhermore, it was directed by Yuasa, whose works focus heavily on sexual dynamics, eroticism, and social constructs (Mind Game, Tatami Galaxy, and Night Is Short, Walk On Girl are absolutely filled with it), and I wouldn't call his works Westernized.
>> No. 32395 [Edit]
I seriously don't get the degenerate meme. How can someone both dislike too much western influence and judge things through a western, puritan-like moral lens? There's people who would say every single person on tohno-chan is a degenerate.
>> No. 32396 [Edit]
Japan follows western morals only even more conservatively.
>> No. 32397 [Edit]
It just means something risqué or controversial that I dislike.
>> No. 32401 [Edit]
Not really. Morals and mindset can't really be seperated, and I don't think Japan has a western mindset. Even if lolicon isn't socially acceptable there and you wouldn't really shout at the top of your lungs that you're a lolicon, it's still produced there with relatively little conflict. Some guy tries that in the west and they have hordes of journalists and such calling for a crusade against the creators. That's the difference. When you see something you don't like, turning your head the other way without comment is very different from pointing it out and calling it and the people who like it "degenerate". Being conservative about sex, family and what not is not specific to the west.

Post edited on 15th Jun 2019, 7:31am
>> No. 32402 [Edit]
I don't think it's just that. I think there's also an idea of it contesting inherently valuable cultural norms and leading to societal decline.

At the core of it, saying something degenerate is to label it below understanding or affordance and as inherently counter to the speaker's ideals of society, but without having to spell out those ideals. It sets up a teflon-like criticism of things someone doesn't like.
>> No. 32403 [Edit]
They do. Morals and Mindsets can be separated as well. What you are talking of is the reaction to these morals, not the morals in question.
>> No. 32404 [Edit]
File 156063889849.png - (847.09KB , 850x1088 , A2CDC61F-3188-4088-BF62-79CCCE72B229-15866-00000F9.png )
So if two people both think murder is bad and wouldn't do it themselves, but when seeing someone getting attacked the first walks by while the second steps in, you think they have the exact same morals? Even if the second would consider the first "immoral"? Is one person just more "conservative"?
Yeah, and since when did people here care about societal norms? You can't have a waifu, or masturbate to pretty much any kind of hentai, and then proceed to defend the "good of society" like a proper, god-fearing, anglo-saxon samaritan. Cherry picking like that is hypocritical. Either you're with the current paradigm, or you've rejected it and have no right to criticize others who did the same, at least not in the same way.

Post edited on 15th Jun 2019, 3:50pm
>> No. 32405 [Edit]
>So if two people both think murder is bad and wouldn't do it themselves, but when seeing someone getting attacked the first walks by while the second steps in, you think they have the exact same morals?

Yes, because that is not based on morals. You could raise two children in the same house, in the same country to believe the same thing only one of them is brave and outspoken so will be more likely to stop things like that happening in public and to denounce things that are against his morals. Does this mean that there fore one of these children has to be Japanese and have a different set of morals than the other? No, they have different personalties and mentalities, not different morals.
>> No. 32406 [Edit]
Well in that case, don't most people have the same morals? Most don't like murder, most don't like adultery, most don't like thievery, etc. How much different is China or Korea?
>> No. 32407 [Edit]
Yes. Most societies share common morals to an extent but then diverge in certain aspects. Although killing is a bit different as in China, Japan and many other places it was not seen like we do now in the west, for example in Japan it was seen as normal and acceptable to cut down a fellow retainer of the same lord if he insulted you and if another retainer happened to be at the toilet during this and came back to find that scene it was seen as normal and acceptable for him to cut down the other retainer. Not for vengeance but to prove that he was not a coward who had run away at the time(because he was not there but on the toilet).

Taking this back to Devilman, I have not seen the anime but I guess he refers to degenerate as being sexual based. In the west this used to be seen as unacceptable but now sex before marriage is the norm, whereas Japan still holds this value and does not have the 'dating' culture that the west does now. So 'a western, puritan-like moral lens' now applies more to Japan than the west, so it's easy to see how somebody could dislike western influence and call it degenerate even if thye view that through 'a western, puritan-like moral lens'.
>> No. 32408 [Edit]
sjw stuff in anime is unbearable, don't get me wrong, but I'd find it just as unbearable if right-wing social politics were enforced in anime: no more hentai, no more ecchi, no more yuri, probably nothing less than the death penalty for anyone even thinking about lolicon. Even if you have particularly strong political convictions, it's nice to have something which doesn't have anything to do with any of it, an escape from that as from everything else.
>> No. 32409 [Edit]
A lot of anime series are in some way political, though. That they don't touch on contentious Western lines doesn't mean they're not political; just that they don't bring up topics controversial in the West in the year 2019.
>> No. 32410 [Edit]
Never seen devilman, but I know there was premarital sex in parasyte and school days. Real life standards are irrelevant. Even with your example, there's was such a thing as duels, and that was seen as acceptable. Same reasoning, different reaction.
>> No. 32411 [Edit]
While that may be true, Asians in general rarely bring up politics on social media I’ve noticed.
>> No. 32412 [Edit]
Japanese otaku tend not to, because there is much more fragility in the good faith of followers, and 2channel was infested with /pol/tard mentality (ネット右翼) about a decade earlier than Western sites, so discussion of politics for those dependent upon an online persona was already spoiled. But non-otaku? It's not nearly as verboten to shill for your party/organization.

Also, I've found that some artists will occasionally comment on social/political events, but they'll use such passive, roundabout language that Google Translate will be unable to parse the subtleties.
>> No. 32413 [Edit]
Yeah I get what you are saying, but I am more so referring to the moe craze that seems to have become a meme on the western internet. Of course I might be wrong even then considering that the internet has more influence on reality now than it did during the brony days.
If you want to go even further down the rabbit hole, a lot of these people who ironically watch "dank anime meme compilations" sometimes end up getting into anime. As far as anime being tied to meme culture, I'm surprised you didn't notice this before hand. Ever since 4chan gained prominence again during the 2016 election, anime girls have been "ironically" spammed all over youtube and social media. Gen Z is literally an entire generation of hipsters (with some exceptions of course).
>> No. 32414 [Edit]
I just stumbled upon this shit.
Fuck. Why?
>> No. 32415 [Edit]
Actual mental illness and memes.
>> No. 32416 [Edit]
I feel dirty now, thanks anon
>> No. 32417 [Edit]
this is part of the (modern) right's tactics to recruit social outcasts i think. i remember this was the reason The Daily Stormer was started; to create appeal to the meme crowd
>> No. 32418 [Edit]
Actually, if I remember correctly, the daily stormer started out as a simpler alternative to a popular neo nazi blog. They only jumped on the meme bandwagon during the 2016 election when /pol/ was gaining popularity.
Either way, "the anime right" should not exist.
>> No. 32419 [Edit]
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Same with anime left. I remember visiting an 8chan board called /leftyweebpol/. Unironic communists.
>> No. 32420 [Edit]
I will never understand why communists like anime so much considering how shamelessly corporate and cashgrabbing most of it. Memes I guess?
>> No. 32421 [Edit]
Left or right I will never understand why people care about politics so much at all.
>> No. 32422 [Edit]
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Not to mention its historical roots(whole base art style originating from donald duck comic books). Japan came sort of close to becoming communist after WWII since there was a politican who was friends with Mao and gaining influence before a uni student stabbed him in the chest. If it had, forget about any of it. There's doujin circles and labors of love, but without the 80s economic bubble I doubt anime would be anywhere near where it is today.
It makes people feel important and smart, but requires zero brain power. I've seen janitors have lengthy conversations about it.

Post edited on 20th Jun 2019, 8:01pm
>> No. 32423 [Edit]
People feel it is important and people like tribalism. People will be prejudice over what condiments people put on their food, why wouldn’t they think something perceived as important as politics is worth caring about
>> No. 32424 [Edit]
absolutely this. after a while of caring intensely about it, I realized I was never going to be logical rather than emotional about it, and neither was anyone else.
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