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File 161562236535.png - (38.93KB , 370x320 , confused 1.png )
4814 No. 4814 [Edit]
Hopefully someone who likes said fetish might explain what they like about it to you as well. Except ntr-fags. You're not allowed on this site.

Post edited on 13th Mar 2021, 1:04am
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>> No. 4815 [Edit]
File 161562391873.png - (26.45KB , 600x600 , 12d79251d1c3d264916b2f4da9d837958266db26529bbf2eb8.png )
4815
I don't understand that one guy on Pixiv who has a fetish for athlete's foot.
>> No. 4816 [Edit]
>>4815
By that do you mean the foot of an athlete or the fungal infection?
>> No. 4817 [Edit]
File 161563327859.jpg - (63.85KB , 1280x720 , chi stare.jpg )
4817
>4816
...
>> No. 4834 [Edit]
File 161792406461.gif - (828.27KB , 500x375 , 1457238161675.gif )
4834
I really, really don't get the obsession with gross balding guys that weigh 300 lbs.

Also, what's up with scat? Are people actually attracted to poop???

I'm not sure I want the answer to these questions.
>> No. 4835 [Edit]
>>4834
I used to think that was self insertion by fat ugly otaku artist.
I learned from discussions about it that some people like to see ugly things deface and destroy beautiful things.
I think there's also an element of hate for women in there too, and wanting to drag/knock them down a peg.
It's also possible some people might feel inadequate if the guy in question is some rich handsome alpha male, as if the act is unachievable for them because they'll never be 'that guy', so just as people watch tv shows about people who's lives are worse than their own to feel better about themselves, so too might people make porn with depictions of the most low class disgusting men they can think of so that they might think deep down "at least I'm not him, this girl might see me as a huge upgrade by comparison!"
>> No. 4836 [Edit]
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4836
>>4834
>Also, what's up with scat? Are people actually attracted to poop???
Yes. Since it's icky, it makes you feel weird, and people are sexually into that weird feeling they get.
This also answers your other question.
>> No. 4837 [Edit]
>>4815
Got an example?
>> No. 4838 [Edit]
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4838
>>4834
I believe that the interest of ugly bastards all stems from a desire for self validation and intimacy from a submissive role's point of view.

I feel that social relations are the de facto form of validation of the self. Naturally, although not necessarily, we tend towards a biological need to seek confirmation of ourselves through others. This need, in my opinion, is the drive that makes us seek one another, even if in destructive relations. It confirms one's self of not only their existence, but also their own values' and identity when placed in relation to the other. More so than an end in itself, relating to others characterizes the means by which we fulfill the need of self validation.

Relating to others in a manner further from generic everyday interactions signifies intimacy and enables differentiation of the self from the amorphous social mass. A very strong form of building intimacy is having shared experiences. Shared experiences that are more meaningful, for whatever reason, are stronger as tokens of intimacy than less meaningful ones, and serve as more efficient means of self differentiation than common, socially acceptable and expectable experiences. One aspect of meaningful experiences is transgression of externally imposed limitations. When transgression is done conjointly, it implies trust, which implies intimacy, which again implies self validation and differentiation.

Individuals inherit culturally imposed limitations to sexual practices in the form sexual taboos. These don't have to be outspoken, legal, or even conscious limitations, but are generally inherited as shared common values. To transgress these, again, self validates through the perceived requirement of intimacy between parties.

This is where ugly bastard doujin come in. When reading fiction, the reader always takes a point of self insertion. With ugly bastard doujin, whether you choose to self insert as the dominant or the submissive role, you are still going to be seeking the same aspects of validation and intimacy. This is because the reader is led to experience that strongly transgressional situation of a shared experience. One attains the fantasy of submission or domination. This is not simply about the fictionalized act, but also the validation of one's own perceived values through media consumption. One then doubly affirms oneself, both in reality as consumption, and in fiction as simulation. The more transgressive to the limitations imposed on reality and fiction, the more this level of meaning reinforces itself.

What is essential for this to be true is the portrayal or suggestion of consent. Without this, the sense of conjoint experience of transgression just becomes an overpowering fantasy. Given that most male parts in this genre are abstracted through faceless males with little to no characterization, the focus ends up being mainly female- or submissive-role oriented. With this submissive-focus in mind, the suggestion of consent or agreement is done by all sorts of ways, like the form in which orgasm is depicted, the presence of heart in eyes or speech bubbles, hips moving on their own, coscience clouded by pleasure in the form of mind break, to name a few. If this agreement can be suggested, it implies the previously mentioned sharing of a trangressional experience, and the reader can then live vicariously through the fiction of being accepted by another despite all the implied restrictions saying otherwise.

What is interesting from this, I feel, is mind break as a genre. It gives explicit attention to the turning point of meaning in the doujin. For example, in a generic rape mind break doujin, I would argue that, for many readers, the interest still exists in the same framework suggested above. One is still seeking the same feelings of unconscious shared experience and intimacy in a personal level. The necessary consent is suggested through the mind break. It implies a biological level of pleasure that would cloud and override consciousness. This may be opportunely interpreted by the reader as agreement, and thus trigger the feel of mutual intimacy that one, I believe, naturally tends towards seeking.

Within all of this, though, I feel that most of the self insertion in this type of doujin is made through a submissive point of view. This, I believe, is a hypothesis reinforced by the medium: male or dominant characters are mostly abstract whenever possible; male or dominant experiences are mostly ignored and undescribed; female or submissive points of view and experiences are explored and focused on. In general, male or dominant characters are without background or significant narrative meaning to their actions, commonly simply being the dominant agent for the story. The characters which suffer meaningful action, whose experiences are narratively meaningful and serve as drive from a starting point to an ending point, are commonly the female or submissive characters. The reader is thus impelled to follow the narrative through the narrative focus of, and thus relate to, the submissive part.

I believe that many readers within this genre are actually exclusively submissive themselves. This comes from, if anything, the same previously mentioned desire for validation and intimacy. Deprivation of social relations and intimate experiences, I feel, lead to desperation for intimacy and acceptance, which in turn lead to submissive behavior, possibly as a biological attempt of appeasing and signaling desire. This is particularly noticeable in 2D, given that the object of desire is intagible. This has a noticeable result when you see doujin: genres like loli, rape, humiliation, drugs, abuse and so on, I feel, are, despite common misconception, targeted towards submissive individuals that self inserted as the loli, as the raped, as the humiliated. Of course not all readers seek it this way, but I believe many, even if unconsciously, still do, perhaps most of the readers. Within such a framework, even without consent suggestions like implicit signs of pleasure or explicit signs such as mind break, the mutual agreement is implied by the readers themselves. And this is the case with many doujin out there.

So this is where I feel ugly bastard doujin end up figuring: they are a submissive-oriented method of simulating intimacy and self validation through narratives depicting transgressional actions as the means to increase the feeling of validation one gets from their fiction. I feel this explanation is able to explain all sorts of doujin genre, like monster rape, tentacle rape and bestiality. One may be suspicious of it due to its facility to apply to all sorts of situations, but I think that this is the result from it being the common root of what would otherwise be just considered degeneracy.
>> No. 4839 [Edit]
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4839
>>4838
>When reading fiction, the reader always takes a point of self insertion.
Wrong.
>What is essential for this to be true is the portrayal or suggestion of consent. Without this, the sense of conjoint experience of transgression just becomes an overpowering fantasy.
Also wrong. It's not essential and there's plenty of examples of that which people enjoy. Guro and ryona being two extreme ones.
>male or dominant experiences are mostly ignored and undescribed
A lot, if not most, loli doujin focuses on the male's experience. Male perspective isn't that rare.
>I believe that many readers within this genre are actually exclusively submissive themselves.
Freudian-like guess-work. >>4835 got it right.
>> No. 4840 [Edit]
>>4839
>Wrong
Ok.
>Guro and ryona
I believe that the cases in which my explanations apply are on the genres I cited. These cases, or other genre, I wouldn't comment if are applicable or not.
>A lot, if not most, loli doujin focuses on the male's experience. Male perspective isn't that rare.
I agree that male perspective is included in some works, but I believe that to be a case of exclusion of submissive agency, making the notion of dictating thought be relegated to the dominating party. Perhaps there are cases in which that is not the case, I wouldn't know, although again, I do not think this is a catch-all explanation, but rather just a view for many doujin I've seen.
>Freudian-like guess-work.
I don't know Freud, can't say if it is or not, but sure, it's guess work. I imagine all hypotheticals about such a complex topic would be, after all.
>> No. 4841 [Edit]
>>4837
https://www.pixiv.net/users/1552188
>> No. 4842 [Edit]
>>4835
So that's the way it is, huh...

This is a bit off-topic, but I think I could at least somewhat appreciate it if there didn't seem to be a trend for artists to saturate their works with more and more gross freaks the longer they continue to make new stories. I can't tell if it's just trendy among artists or if there's really that big of an audience to demand such works. I hope it's just a fad. There's a lot of artist that I've liked who seemingly have transitioned to just making ugly bastard, NTR, cheating, and rape stories, which... Saddens me.
>> No. 4843 [Edit]
>>4842
>There's a lot of artist that I've liked who seemingly have transitioned to just making ugly bastard, NTR, cheating, and rape stories, which... Saddens me.
I've noticed that too hence why I brought it up before in another thread. Unfortunately it seems that there is an audience that demands it although I can't put a statistic on how big they are. Works with those themes seems to sell pretty well on dlsite from what I've noticed but I'm only speaking of doujin eroge and those tend to be nukige of which those themes are naturally common.
>> No. 4844 [Edit]
>>4841
Gosh, I was completely not expecting it to be that athlete's foot.
>> No. 4845 [Edit]
>>4842

At the risk of sounding like I'm projecting, I've seen a -lot- of hate for women online.
The idea is that women are born into a life of luxury and comfort. They don't have to work if they don't want to and get a free ride both by society and the opposite sex. They're pampered and never have to get their hands dirty, especially now that no one expects them to do their fair share in a household (cooking cleaning child care ect), because those things are now considered demeaning and sexist. This while men have to struggle and suffer in various forms all their life, and if they're lucky they get the privilege of supporting one of these leaches, who can and likely will use the male for all he's worth, then discard him like trash to then do the same with the next. On top of this, women need not put any effort anymore into their appearances or anything else to attract a mate, but still expect men to be perfect in every way. Even a handsome nice and charming guy has a good chance of being used and discarded by an ugly nasty woman in this world of ours.
As such, I think it makes sense that people would make porn that flips things around in which ugly nasty men are the ones using women, treating them like nothing but disposable sex toys and tossing them out like garbage once they've filled that role. In other words, the women in these forms of porn are getting a taste of a gender role swap as seen from an angry male. It's like revenge and irony mixed together.
>> No. 4846 [Edit]
>>4841
I think people who are into foot stuff find more detail the better. Giving them athlete's foot might simply be one way of going about that.
What one might find gross, they find all that more arousing. I think smells also play a large role in stimulating those with this fetish, and I swear I can almost smell the stink coming off images like those.
>> No. 4847 [Edit]
>>4836
Seems like a lot of what makes a person comes from their perception or misconception of their stimulated senses. Ultimately humans are still little more than machines enslaved to their senses.
>> No. 4848 [Edit]
>>4845
I think it's all a lot more primal than you make it out to be. To make sense of it we have to take a step back and not look at it from an anthropocentric perspective. Females are physiologically different from men and have throughout history been dominated, the same is true in the animal kingdom. There are instances where the dominant role is reversed such as in certain insects but ultimately it's all due to sexual dimorphism. The modern perspective on the whole gender issue is just another example of evolution at work.

Post edited on 10th Apr 2021, 1:51am
>> No. 4849 [Edit]
>>4848
Sure, but it's one thing to dominate them, it's another to humiliate, degrade, and make them suffer as we might see in these works.
>> No. 4850 [Edit]
>>4838
That's very well written. Almost feels sacrilegious to have such good content on /ns/ (although on the flipside, I wouldn't mind if /ns/ turned into a defacto place for discussing "philosophy of porn").

> genres like loli, rape, humiliation, drugs, abuse and so on, I feel, are, despite common misconception, targeted towards submissive individuals
From a sample size of n=1 (myself) I agree that this is about 75% true, but even in a case where you're not self-inserting as the submissive role you're still trying to simulate that feeling of desire and acceptance. In the case of humiliation/rape, the other party's acceptance is implicitly born out of necessity (they can't exactly refuse when they're tied up). That is, unable to seek validation and acceptance in the 3D world perhaps they don't imagine themselves being able to find mutual acceptance in the 2D world either, so they place themselves in a situation where the other party is forced to accept (or at the very least, acknowledge) the dominant self-inserter.
>> No. 4851 [Edit]
>>4850
It's full of bs and assumptions stated as facts. People don't have to "self-insert". They can passively observe. I can't stand it when people tells others how they REALLY feel as if they know them better than they do themselves.
>>/ot/37573
>>/ot/37574

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