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1885 No. 1885 [Edit]
What do you think of societal and infrastructure collapse happening in our (assuming nobody here is older than 50) life times either in the west or alternatively worldwide? What kind of collapse do you think will happen? At what pace do you think it will happen? Does the idea of collapse impair you in your day to day life and decisions?

Personally, I think collapse is going to happen one way or the day. The worldwide infrastructure does seem very fragile against a very severe crisis or multiple less severe ones. I feel like you can already feel a decline in reliability of the whole system. Just take sending physical mail for example. A lot of times it feels like the complexity of the system is impairing itself in it's own functionality. In the mail example that would be that the package gets gets sent late, because technical problems of the website, where you ordered it from. From there the arrival of the package is being postponed, due to a missed flight. The airplane with your package eventually lands, but a worker at the airport mistook your package for another. After this problem gets resolved it is stuck at the customs. And because all the mailmen are overworked, they eventually strike, so the arrival gets postponed yet again. Sure, this is an extreme example, but I think somewhere in the timeline from now (2025) to a time completely unrecognizable from now, this is likely to happen. As implied, I think societal collapse will be a very slow process, which will be only visible after many years of steady decline.

Many of the feelings I have in regards to societal collapse, when trying to understand my own thinking and feeling, probably stem from the fact, that I am not very fit for survival on my own in the case of collapse, so the idea of coming into a situation, where I have to fight my neighbor for food or water, does not seem very appealing. Despite multiple suicide attempts in the past, I have grown quite fond of life lately and do not want to come into a situation, where my death might not be peaceful. I'm quite frightened by death and in direct consequence of that also of collapse. The industrial society is what keeps me alive and I wouldn't be able to survive without it. This psychoanalysis probably does not apply to me only, but to very many people, who have in their back of their mind, that they are indeed weaker than their neighbors.

What do you think?
>> No. 1886 [Edit]
>>1885
It will happen. West will follow the trend of Japan, but unlike Japan we don't have social homogeneity. You can already see the traces of this with just increasing unrest among every division possible: political, social, economic, people are unhappy but they don't yet realize that the issues are much more deeply rooted. You can't put the "genie back in the bottle". The left sees the inequality and blames lack of "diversity", while the right sees the lack of economic stability and blames immigration. Both of those are just superficial symptoms: as mentioned Japan is almost perfectly homogeneous with the work ethic and national pride that the "american right" would dream of, and yet they're not fundamentally doing any better in terms of trajectory, people are still "checked out". (That said if I were Japanese I'd much rather be living there.)

Also there will probably be some social unrest due to "AI". Not just economic in terms of job loss, but more broadly it will attack the notion of "human supremacy" that everyone has internalized from birth. With the exception of maybe buddhism (and even there with some interpretations, with the stuff regarding reincarnation there is an implicit statement that only "humans" have the potential to see beyond duality), most people have been conditioned either religiously or socially to value themselves as at the "top of the food chain". "AI" will attack and deconstruct these notions on every layer: their supposed superior "intelligence", the supposed "consciousness" and "agency", the supposed "creativity". People simply will not be able to handle it. Most people end up going through a mid-life crisis that's only a small fraction of the realization of disillusionment, now their entire mode of existence is going to be shattered. When coupled with the job loss and a society that is fundamentally unprepared in every way for what it means to "be human" and "have value" if you have nothing special to contribute, there will be lots of unrest.

More than any physical infrastructure degradation or superficial stuff like "immigration" or "economy", I think that is going to be the biggest, most immediate change. "AI" (whether current LLMs or whatever architecture follows) will be a mirror that forces most people to confront questions that they usually just brush away. And most people will not be able to handle the answer.
>> No. 1887 [Edit]
I think judging through your own life experiences gives a myopic and narrow impression of the state of society. If there is a true collapse, and not simply a transition with some pains along the way, I think it wont be within our lifetimes.

Post edited on 10th Feb 2025, 6:15pm

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