What has Valve done? Sorry but I never heard of Valve doing anything fishy.

If people are aware of what the companies are doing, then I think it's retarded. Most people really just don't give a fuck anymore.

>>38750
Ban games after "green lighting them", and doing so for inconsistent reasons. Steam releases of VNs also tend to have content cut from them deemed too offensive. There's also more and more content trying to cater to Steam's standards from the get go.
https://web.archive.org/web/20210212025519/https://www.oneangrygamer.net/steam-waifu-holocaust-2-0-banned-game-list/

Steam's business model of centralizing pc games also throws a wrench in one the main things that makes the pc special, no approval process. Every single console game for decades has had to be approved first while this was never the case on the pc. Valve is trying to change that.

Post edited on 6th Oct 2021, 7:28pm

I have always hated Cruncyhroll, and always will. They're a hypocritical back stabbing company built on a foundation piracy, which they then condemned once all that piracy netted them enough money to go legit. From there they started taking down everyone doing exactly what they themselves used to.

>>38749
I don't use Steam much, but what's your alternative to it?

Just for selling games, you could use LBRY as a decentralized platform, but Steam offers a lot of services to gamers and devs beyond just listing and selling games, like DRM, achievements, matchmaking, cloud storage for saved games and so on.

>>38756
>what's your alternative to it?
Buying games directly from the developers. Any web dev worth their salt can set up an online store and payment method. Dlsite also works and seems to be more like an online retailer, while steam is more like a publisher.
http://craftwork.product.co.jp/CATALOG/adieu/ADIEU.html

Most of the "services" are also either useless or anti-consumer. I don't need achievements and I'd much rather keep my save files on my own machine. Internet-reliant saves are an anti-feature in my opinion.

The games I'm personally interested in aren't multi-player. That's only a popular niche of games. Even there, I think people should be able to host their own server like they can with minecraft. The best thing you can say about it, is Steam "helps" companies behave in a predatory, anti-consumer way.

>>38757
>Any web dev worth their salt can set up an online store and payment method.
That's a lot of work and security issues that the game developer doesn't have to deal with if they simply use Steam. Also bandwidth and server costs.
But that doesn't really matter, because as I said, LBRY already exists and is an extremely easy way to sell any kind of data, including games, without any company dictating what you can or cannot publish. People on there are selling blueprints for 3D-printed guns for fuck's sake. LBRY just doesn't offer any of the things I mentioned in my previous post. The most important one for many game devs being DRM, hence why GOG often struggle to get newly released games onto their platform.

>Dlsite
No point in changing one centralized service for another.

>I don't need achievements and I'd much rather keep my save files on my own machine. Internet-reliant saves are an anti-feature in my opinion.
Many people like these features, and Steam offers an easy and cheap way for devs to implement them.

>Steam "helps" companies behave in a predatory, anti-consumer way.
I haven't bought a game from Steam in years because some of their business practices made me boycott them (the main one was locking people out of their accounts over politically charged shitposting and thus denying them access to the games they had bought), but most people don't care. And in this case it's understandable, because it's just video games. Looking beyond entertainment media, there are far more important areas where predatory and anti-consumer business practices actually touch essential parts of our society, economy, and everyday lives. As far as internet-related things go, it's much more frustrating to see how few people use Linux as their OS instead of Windows/MacOS, or use Monero for online payments instead of Paypal and credit cards. Or how many put fucking Alexa espionage and control devices into their homes.

>>38758
>No point in changing one centralized service for another.
They have a better track record from what I know and seem far less censorial. If you have to pick a centralized service, they seem better. So there is a point.
https://www.dlsite.com/maniax/works/genre/=/language/jp/sex_category%5B0%5D/male/work_category%5B0%5D/doujin/order%5B0%5D/trend/genre%5B0%5D/207/genre_name%5B0%
5D/%E3%83%AD%E3%83%AA/per_page/30

I also don't support DRM as a concept.

>Many people like these features
Those people have bad taste, mixed up priorities, and are part of the problem.

>it's just video games
This whole website is based around people who consider these types of things important and part of their identity. Not necessarily video games, but a certain subset of media in general. VNs are also on Steam. /g/ concerns are almost entirely divorced from culture. I care about entertainment media first and foremost.

Post edited on 7th Oct 2021, 3:11pm

>>38759
>if you have to pick a centralized service
For the third time: you don't. You can just use LBRY. It doesn't provide everything that Steam provides, but neither does DLsite.

What a centralized service can provide in contrast to individually run websites, however, is consumer trust. If I buy from Steam, I can be reasonably sure that they won't scam me out of my my money or sell my credit card info. I can also be reasonably sure that possession of the game's content doesn't violate the laws of my country (not a fan of state-level censorship, but it's a reality, and a video game is a really stupid reason for going to prison). If you buy some small indie game from a random website you've never heard of, that's not a given.

They also give your content free promotion. I bet a lot of successful indie games out there would've just stayed in obscurity if it wasn't for Steam pushing it into peoples' faces.

>I also don't support DRM as a concept.
Yet you probably use Windows, which has DRM and support for DRM'd media built-in, so you're part of the problem.
As it stands, Microsoft can revoke your ability to use Windows at any moment, and could also start deciding which games you're allowed to play. Can't do that in an open system like Linux.

>/g/ concerns
The Paypal/credit card thing in particular isn't much of a /g/ concern. Choosing to let some banker or payment provider decide what you can or cannot do with your money versus using a censorship-resistant medium of exchange like cash or crypto is an issue that predates computers.

>are almost entirely divorced from culture.
Wrong, because Paypal, banks and credit card companies have in recent years started to increasingly refuse service to book stores and other websites and content creators whose offerings are not "woke" enough for the tastes of the owners of the payment providers. You cannot buy from those stores unless you send them cash or Bitcoin/Monero, thus limiting the range of cultural products that users of centralized payment services can enjoy.

>>38749
>What do you think of people who financially support destructive, censorship happy corporations like Cruncyhroll and Valve?
Don't care about Crunchyroll, I watch everything raw anyway.

Microsoft are attempting to push their own app store more and more as the primary way of getting not just programs, but also games and other content. If they weren't so incompetent (and have a warranted fear of anti-trust litigation, I guess), they would've already effectively pushed 3rd party platforms like GOG and Steam out of the market. When that happens, video game censorship will largely be in the hands of just one massive company, and affect almost everyone.
If you use Windows, you are absolutely one of the "people who financially support destructive, censorship happy corporations."

Valve are actually the ones with a decent plan to escape this nightmare by pushing for gaming on Linux.

>>38760
>You can just use LBRY
Not if you want real money you can buy groceries with without some kind conversion process. I wouldn't be surprised if it's not that simple to make whatever crypto LBRY uses something you can actually live off of.

>I can also be reasonably sure that possession of the game's content doesn't violate the laws of my country
So you're a eurofag? I don't have your problems and I don't need your state approved app platform.

>Microsoft can revoke your ability to use Windows at any moment, and could also start deciding which games you're allowed to play.
Except they haven't done that. Ignoring that I could pirate a copy of windows or disable updates with third party software if need be, they haven't actually done that. Valve has actually removed games. AND, valve has an initial approval process. Even if microsoft somehow removed the ability to use specific pieces of software they didn't make, at least there isn't an approval process to make your software usable to begin with.

>Wrong, because Paypal, banks and credit card companies
I'm talking about linux. In reality, linux is a wasteland for entertainment because of its fragmented development, zero concern for backwards compatibility, and the attitude developers have on it. Most software is distributed via repositories, which function in the same way app stores do with some group of people moderating everything. /g/ does not care and prefers it that way.

>>38761
>Microsoft are attempting to push their own app store
Attempting, and failing. I've never used the thing and I never felt the need to.

>If you use Windows, you are absolutely one of the "people who financially support destructive, censorship happy corporations."
Except they haven't censored any entertainment software for its content being too offensive. Which again, Valve HAS done.

>When that happens
It wont.

>Valve are actually the ones with a decent plan to escape this nightmare by pushing for gaming on Linux.
So they can monopolize it, and or it's mostly lipservice.

Post edited on 7th Oct 2021, 5:31pm

>>38762
One more thing, Dlsite may not ram products in people's faces, but it does make them more accessible with categorization. Dlsite also has its reputation. Somebody looking for specific types of content will probably go to Dlsite for it because they know it is there. LBRY is just a conceptual thing. It has no reputation. So those things wont even be posted.

It took me less than a minute to find exactly what I was looking for on Dlsite. I could not find anything of my criteria on the super duper freedom loving LBRY, so at the very least, it has a worse user interface.

Edit: So after I figured out that "mature content" is disabled by default(after looking up if LBRY even has nsfw stuff), I did find some stuff after scrolling down, all of it being reposts from pixiv. LBRY does not have "games" as a default content type.

"Games" is a tag, but you can't seemingly filter searches by multiple tags. If I had a porn game, I wouldn't post it here just for it being this cumbersome and unsuitable for my product.

You want to download saya no uta? Here you go. Screenshots and all
https://www.dlsite.com/pro/work/=/product_id/VJ010937.html
Or you can get a shitty, edited version on steam. Case closed.

Post edited on 7th Oct 2021, 7:11pm

>>38762
>I could not find anything of my criteria on the super duper freedom loving LBRY
if you're looking for porn, you have to enable the "show mature content" option in the settings. That will however also show gore videos etc.
Also try using Japanese search terms if you're looking specifically for Japanese media. That said, there really isn't much commercial content on there yet.
I agree that the main interface isn't all that great, but if the platform takes off, we'll probably see much better 3rd party interfaces for it.

>Not if you want real money you can buy groceries with without some kind conversion process
So setting up a payment system on a self-hosted website to process payments in dozens of fiat currencies is fine, but sending LBRY credits to an exchange is something you expect to be too hard for a game developer to do?

>I don't have your problems and I don't need your state approved app platform
'kay, just make sure to do your mandatory pledge of allegiance to Israel:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/texas-hurricane-aid-dickinson-israel-boycott-pledge-harvey-financial-help-free-speech-a8011141.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws#Anti-BDS_laws_in_the_United_States
Copyright infringements aside, in my country I can download anything other than CSAM. I was thinking of people in places like Australia. There's a very long list of things Australians aren't allowed to look at on the internet.

>they haven't done that
People also said that about Paypal and VISA. "Oh they would never do that, they have so much to lose." Yet here we are and they've banned literally thousands of accounts over political reasons. And they can get away with it too because nobody gives a shit, most people are just as apathetic to it as you are.
If a major corporation can censor something, they sooner or later will, these companies just can't help themselves.
Microsoft has already banned emulators from their store:
https://www.windowscentral.com/microsoft-bans-game-emulators-windows-store-rules-change

>I could pirate a copy of windows or disable updates with third party software
That's gonna leave you with a lot of easily exploitable security holes.

>Attempting, and failing
In the long term, it's practically an inevitability. Valve realizes this, hence their push to Linux.

>So they can monopolize it
Valid concern, but with the GPL in place, there's only so much they can do.
>and or it's mostly lipservice
Haven't you heard of the Steam Deck, the Linux-based handheld console and dockable desktop computer they're releasing?
They've also done a fuckton of dev work on graphics subsystems and other software important to gaming.

>Dlsite also has its reputation
Sure it does, I was contrasting centralized services like DLsite and Steam with your suggestion to buy from developers directly.
>LBRY is just a conceptual thing. It has no reputation.
It uses crypto, so it doesn't require a lot of trust for the payment aspect since you don't have to give credit card details to anyone.

The biggest problem I see with it when buying games is that the content itself might be malicious, i.e. there might be viruses or something in it. Such malware can be flagged of course, but that means at least one person has to download it before it gets discovered.

With DLsite being a centralized service that relies on centralized payment gateways, all it would take for them to start censoring stuff is one call from a payment processor that service will be denied if they don't take down that one thing in their store that the ADL didn't like:
https://twitter.com/adl/status/1419660721479110656

>>38764
>sending LBRY credits to an exchange is something you expect to be too hard for a game developer to do?
If a developer is willing to deal with crypto, they don't even need LBRY. They can in fact have their own store that takes monero.
https://www.monerooutreach.org/merchants/monero-payment-processor-guide.html

>I was thinking of people in places like Australia
I'm not going to admire Steam for pushing everybody to cater to Australia's draconian bullshit.

>Microsoft has already banned emulators from their store
Windows store =/= windows. The windows store is a side project that may or may not succeed depending on its individual success, while steam is most of what valve is. Comparing an entire OS to steam because the company that makes the os is trying to push a store nobody really wants, doesn't make sense.

Are you trying to say I'm a hypocrite because I don't live in the desert abyss that is linux? Windows came with my laptop and I haven't directly or indirectly given microsoft a penny since.

>In the long term, it's practically an inevitability.
Microsoft would have to deprecate the win32 api. That would be a suicidal move on their part.

>I was contrasting centralized services like DLsite and Steam with your suggestion to buy from developers directly
My order of preference is this, direct purchase > dlsite >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steam.

>it doesn't require a lot of trust for the payment aspect
I'm talking about content reputation. Nobody knows if what they want is on LBRY.

>all it would take for them to start censoring stuff
You keep talking in hypotheticals. I'm critical of valve because of the current reality of their catalogue.

Post edited on 7th Oct 2021, 8:52pm

All I know about LBRY, is that I bought 50 of their coins among a bunch of others on the off chance they might be worth something someday. something like 5 years later and it's still worthless.

>>38761
>Don't care about Crunchyroll, I watch everything raw anyway.
They've also helped fund some anime productions in the past decade, but I don't know how much creative control that entails.

>>38764
>That's gonna leave you with a lot of easily exploitable security holes.
Wouldn't that be fine if you ran it as a guest via up-to-date virtualization software or ran it on a separate PC disconnected from the internet?
And what would you suggest people who want to play Windows games do instead, run Wine? Does it work well enough nowadays? I know some Windows games can be run cross platform via FOSS game engine recreations, but again, there may be some compatibility issues.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engine_recreations

Why would you buy h-games through steam?

>>38773
They sell them, so they consider it part of their scope. Their claimed scope is every type of games.

Speaking of Dlsite, there's a "war" ongoing between DLsite and Fanza/DMM on twitter right now. I found this somewhat amusing https://twitter.com/hito_horobe/status/1447525811775442950

>>38778
Good to see that DLsite reigns supreme. I have always disliked DMM as a company and it is quite fitting to be associated with netori/netorare.

Not only does steam not allow publishers to directly link to "18+ patches", anywhere on the platform, users cannot link to them either, OR EVEN up vote links to them. Not a rule, but you'll still be banned for it. This is surprising even to me, but I guess it shouldn't be.

https://www.reddit.com/r/visualnovels/comments/qf143w/do_not_upvote_steam_reviews_that_promote_r18/

Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

Post edited on 26th Jan 2022, 3:52pm

>>39172
In this case I don't know that they are actually doing anything wrong. There are more rules for R 18 games, you can't view them from a browser when you are not logged in to steam for example. So probably develops get around that by just not having it be R18. But if you do that yet you can simply revert it back to being an R 18 game by just downloading a small patch linked on Steam, then even though they sold it as being appropriate for all ages, it's still really R 18. So that is probably what they are trying to stop.

>>39173
Steam will take down(if it "green lights" it in first place) games rated 18 if it has content that goes against their vaguely defined rule against obscenity. Really whatever random mods feel like. Some games are also only allowed with some of its original content being cut like Saya no Uta.

>even though they sold it as being appropriate for all ages, it's still really R 18
Steam could EASILY take that into account by providing a log in required place for the developers to post links. That's what they'd do if they had even a modicum of decency. I don't accept that excuse and neither should you.

>>39175
That still would not work. You have to remember that steam is under all kinds of legal obligations and they can't just say 'well people have to log into to make this game R rated', they are selling it as not R rated in the first place, that doesn't matter. This is why Total War games have a blood pack now, they sell the game at a lower rating but if somebody choses they can buy additional content that itself is rated as more mature. Just having it there as an option does not change anything even if it requires a player to be over 18 to access it. The rating of a game is the rating of a game.

Another thing that I will add is that this isn't actually all related to age. Part of it is, but a large part is also for consumers of all ages. It's to tell them what kind of game it is and what it could have that might offend them(which is also why the rating includes what specifically it has that makes it R rated), so for example a 40 year old married Christian woman is over 18, she can legally play any R rated game but she probably does not want to and if she sees an R rated game and it says it contains nudity she will avoid it. But if it doesn't she will not.

And you might say something like 'sure but she has to click on that uncensored link and surely she must know what it contains'. That is not actually a legal defence, firstly uncensored could refer to anything really, it might not be nudity or sex, she might not even mind nudity but maybe she doesn't like sex. But secondly, even if you had a game called something like 'Ultimate massacre battle 2-Super blood wars' and the video promoting it on steam showed blood everywhere, if it's rated PG or not rated at all, that's still illegal and a consumer could take that to court even if they really would have known it had blood in it, because it was not technically rated to say that it did.

>>39176
>>39177
That is complete horseshit. The developer Putting a link that's labeled "all content patch, 18+" is no different from selling a "blood pack". You are making excuses for something inexcusable. Steam already sells pornography, so they obviously already have a means to deal with legal shit. The game developer should have a place to link to whatever they feel like on their game page.

People like you, who make excuses for companies, make me sick.

>>39178
Goodness, take it easy~

>>39178
You didn't read my posts at all did you?

A developer putting a link 'all content patch 18+' is completely different than a blood pack. Legally that means nothing, it has not been verified, it has not been approved by a ratings board, nothing of the sort and as I said, it's not just 18+ they need to specify why it's 18+. As you even said, they already sell pornography, it's not a matter of them going out of thir way to remove porn from there platform, it's all about regulation. Developers could probably make an R18 add on but it would have to be put past a ratings board of some kind and would probably make people angry that they now have to pay more.

>>39180
If "verification" was legally required, nobody would be allowed to distribute any kind of game for any price without it, which is obviously not true.
https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/74660/when-does-a-game-need-an-official-age-rating

>Game ratings are not enforced by any country for any kind of game. They'll just ban your game, if they found it objectionable enough. The rating is more of a de-facto standard used to make the end-user aware about the content of the game, so that kids do not play games containing extreme violence.

>You'll be required to submit ratings only if you're making games for major consoles, such as PlayStation, XBox or Wii.

>Update: There're few countries which requires explicit rating by one of the approved rating agency to be eligible for distribution.

In such draconian hell holes, steam could easily block the viewing of external links. I bet you're a eurofag with this warped mentality of yours.

>>39181
In fact, steam doesn't even require games on it to have a rating, unlike consoles, so your whole point is extremely stupid and wrong.

https://xsolla.com/blog/self-publish-on-steam-the-ultimate-guide
>Supplying the rating information is not mandatory. However, you should definitely fill in this tab if you have official age ratings.

Post edited on 27th Jan 2022, 6:56am

>>39181
>In such draconian hell holes, steam could easily block the viewing of external links.
Almost like Steam operates as a global marketplace with different rules that they abide by based on the country and their laws.
You can't even buy porn games on Steam in Germany without a VPN because Valve decided they'd rather not bother dealing with the bureaucracy of their rating system.
Maybe that should be a slight insight as to why some companies just have external links to the R18 stuff because you know, localization companies want the widest audience possible and to actually make money
>I bet you're a eurofag with this warped mentality of yours.
You're doing yourself a disservice by acting like a dickhead with people just trying to have a reasonable discussion with you
If you're aiming to come across as a 17 year old /pol/ user then well done I guess because you've nailed it

>>39185
>You can't even buy porn games on Steam in Germany without a VPN
Nothing stops them from having a similar feature for external links to patches.

>people just trying to have a reasonable discussion with you
There's nothing to discuss. I'm getting on a soap box to condemn people worth condemning. This thread exists to be a witch trial, and you're arguing with the priest. Not even doing a good job at it since you're just making shit up to blame the government instead.