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37024 No. 37024 [Edit]
All the kind of stuff from the internet 10 or more years ago seems to be treated as cringe now. If not outright shunned. The idea of saying whatever you want in a game chat is seen as an outdated and backwards desire, any sexual joking about highschool aged fictional characters garners a strong and angry response, not from old people but from 18-25 year olds strangely enough. People who actually livestream as themselves and not a carefully edited character are not just "cringe" but hated and even vilified with elaborate narratives created around them, it would seem the very concept of the internet as a place to find anything and say or read anything is cringe, dated, problematic these days. The idea that a game might actually release all its content as a $60 dollar package and then anything extra as completed expansion packs is a ridiculous thing to say now. I don't remember people being like this when I was in highschool, they weren't this touchy and they weren't so accepting of greedy business practices. There's a general feeling here that I'm trying to figure out and it's not just nostalgia, it's like the internet was re-written and re-imagined under my nose and the way people act on it is so different. Did anyone question or care if haruhi was too sexy for a highschooler? I'm not just whining about being censored, there's something else too, the whole chaotic and naively raw internet of the 2000s to early 2010 is unwanted even by kids, teenagers, and college aged people. What exactly happened here?
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>> No. 37025 [Edit]
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I don't think it's a mystery. It's demographic changes. All of those people you avoided in real life, who would be "disturbed" by somebody thinking a drawing of a high schooler is hot, have come on the internet. I'm too young to have any personal experience with these magical "less sensitive young people", but did you ever really ask them how they felt about certain things that offend people now? Do you think they would find 9/11 jokes funny? It's more likely that they were ignorant of what was out there, while now they know about and hate it. They already have a satisfactory life, and now the internet is just part of that life, not an escape. Stuff like furries were always made fun of too. The weaboo hysteria happened well before instagram or twitter were a big thing.

As for why nobody seems to want freedom, why do you think they came to the internet in the first place? It's an egg and chicken kind of question. Was the internet more restricted because more people were on it, or was it more restricted to get people on it? I think it's both, but mostly the latter. AOL was so popular for a reason. People happily watched their ad riddled, milquetoast, scheduled tv programs for a reason.

Post edited on 16th Dec 2020, 4:39am
>> No. 37032 [Edit]
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>Did anyone question or care if haruhi was too sexy for a highschooler?
While I was looking for the soundtracks for Dance in the Vampire Bund the other day I caught a 10 year old comment calling it vile pornography, because Mina would be naked sometimes. Though, everyone else had the good sense to call them a moron and a moralizer back then. These days those people are way more common.
>> No. 37035 [Edit]
The use of "cringe" as an adjective makes me cringe. Was "cringey" not informal enough?
>> No. 37038 [Edit]
>did you ever really ask them how they felt about certain things that offend people now? Do you think they would find 9/11 jokes funny?
I wouldn't have said all that if I didn't think the way people are in real life changed as well. I made jew jokes with my classmates, and though I wouldn't have said this in school we jokingly called each other "niggas". And I remember this being pretty consistent throughout my childhood for how teenagers and young adults were in conversation. It was uncommon and unexpected for another kid or teenager to get upset about something that was said, they pretty much didn't care. Obviously the internet was on a whole nother level, but generally it felt like people were a lot more relaxed about just saying stupid shit. As for being disturbed by a drawing of a highschooler being hot, well, maybe my perspective was warped from being a highschooler, but seniors in highschool and even older kids too were pretty open about the fact that they found so and so from 9th grade pretty hot, and sometimes they even dated. It seemed to me like I walked into a bizarro reality when I saw people posting youtube comments about how it was creepy to draw a 16 year old with big tits. I mean, I feel like I'm going crazy, what I grew up hearing and seeing was that after 13 or so it was fair game as long as no ones parents got mad. Maybe my neighborhood was an exception, it would have to be a pretty big one for the rest of the world to be so different. Apologies for the blogposting, but I'm just trying to put some background to my perspective on the internet.
Yeah I'm not a fan of it, if anything a major reason for my post is the existence of "cringe culture". Anything that isn't "ironic" is cringe to people it seems, anything that isn't highly edited and streamlined for palatability on the modern internet is just too much for them to handle. It's a "good thing" that the internet is more selective in their eyes. Cringe this, cringe that, cringe cringe cringe. Everything is cringe. It drives me insane.

That's part of the connection I'm trying to make here, somehow people freaking out over "sexy fictional highschoolers" and calling everything cringe especially if it was old internet humor or behaviors are connected. I'm not sure what the connecting factor is though. I'm also aware that this kind of complaining about the modern internet is overdone at this point, but there's a specific aspect of it that I'm trying to dissect here.
>> No. 37039 [Edit]
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I think it's a case of warped perspective. Teenagers still get a pass when it comes to a lot of stuff. I've had conversations in school about wanting to see New York be a blown up pile of rubble and racial facial characteristics, but nobody interrupted to say how outraged they are. With certain issues, yes, things have a reached a fever pitch where everybody is walking on egg shells, but other stuff like the specific age gaps you mentioned are still implicitly accepted. For adults on the other hand, like older than 20+, it's been a long time since having the hots for a 16 year old was something socially acceptable. Drawings also skeeve people out more in some sense because the idea of "getting around" social boundaries is seen as creepy in itself.

I don't see the point in lamenting the old days were in a few ways things may have been better. There was always problems and nonsensical restrictions. People whine and bitch and moan about everything being cringey or creepy or whatever else. Okay, so what? That's just the abyss putting on another costume. You can either fall into it, or walk around it.

Post edited on 16th Dec 2020, 4:56pm
>> No. 37040 [Edit]
>the whole chaotic and naively raw internet
I miss this as well, but some people such as the retards on KiwiFarms go too far with the chaotic nature of the internet. The internet and real-life should never have been mixed, though I guess it was inevitable.
>> No. 37041 [Edit]
Kiwi farms is a forum for wannabe ediots to feel good about themself by obsessively circle jerking about how they're better than such and such internet person for years on end. They have no problem with stuff they don't like being censored and actively try to deplatform people by attempting to dox them and complaining to the webhost internet police. There's nothing wild west about it.
>> No. 37046 [Edit]
A book I read recently touched on this. It is a book about internet linguistics called Because Internet by Gretchen McCulloch. I wouldn't recommend the book to this audience, but there was one thing I got out of it that is relevant to this thread's topic. Specifically this, on the difference between now and 15 years ago:
>But in a discussion of generations and cohorts, here’s the sharpest line dividing internet writers: Who is the imaginary authority in your head when you choose how to punctuate a text message? Is it the prescriptive norm of an offline authority, like your former English teacher or a dictionary? Or is it the collective wisdom of your online peers, the anticipation of their emotional reaction to your typographical tone of voice? The difference between how people communicate in the internet era boils down to a fundamental question of attitude: Is your informal writing oriented towards the set of norms belonging to the online world or the offline one?
That last question gets to the point. It's that social norms changed for the worse, that's what happened. Fags shat up the internet's norms with their expectations derived from real life socialising and brought everything they saw on the internet into the scope of their social desirability biases because "internet" to them means "Thing I use to socialise with people I know in real life like it's real life" rather than "Completely separate sphere to real life, your existing expectations do not apply". People who still carry old norms are scattered now and can expect the vast majority of their interactions to be with people who carry new norms unless they sequester themselves and gatekeep their communities.

OP brings up that few people raised hell when you talked about Haruhi being hot. That's an understatement, back then you could even acknowledge without much controversy that jailbait appeals to men.
>> No. 37047 [Edit]
So did social norms change in general, or did internet demographics just change?

>back then you could even acknowledge without much controversy that jailbait appeals to men.
On the internet, or in real life too?
>> No. 37050 [Edit]
There's another thing about online social norms that bugs me that centers around the sensitivity you mentioned. Back in the day it felt like I could come on the internet and speak unfiltered without fear of getting shouted down over some petty social rule or ruffling some insecure normie's feathers. That isn't the case anymore. People don't seem to want actual conversation. They want to sit around and pull levers to get a neurochemical fix. That sort of behavior has always existed online but it seems to have gotten a lot worse over time. Like others have said I think it comes down to demographics.

Outside of shitposting banter you used to be able to find people to converse with pretty easily and they actually had varied opinions. These days you say one word that isn't in alignment with whatever the hivemind agrees on and they'll start losing it. It'd be one thing if they explained why they think your viewpoint is misguided, or gave you a bit of shit for having one point of disagreement but that's not what happens. They just throw your entire post in the garbage and focus solely on the part that makes them uncomfortable. The behavior differs depending on what site it happens on but the core theme remains the same: an emotionally charged temper tantrum because they didn't get their worldview validated 100%.

If you're basically normal and fit in with mainstream culture you don't face a lot of criticism. It seems like normals learn to dismiss others ruthlessly as a means of protecting their psychology. Taking the time to weigh what someone's experiences has been is a lot of work and neurotic behavior people only learn through being in a hostile social environment for a prolonged period of time... It seems like with the normie invasion you see a lot of people who would be more considerate learn to quickly dismiss others. Unless a space is explicitly abnormal to start with it'll become normal infested over time. It's one way to stop social gentrification but it comes at the cost of creating a real race to the bottom mentality in a lot of communities.

It feels like the internet of seasons past was a magical place. A fluke that's now being corrected. I've changed some but it feels like the world around me has changed a lot more.
>> No. 37051 [Edit]
Kiwifarms is actually exactly the kind of retards I can't stand. A lot of the stuff they build up "lolcow" resumes over is the kind of whining about creepy or cringey stuff that was taken in stride on the internet before. They're the furthest cry from the wild west of the internet as you can get and, in large part, I genuinely think that tumblr providing a large "alt" platform for women on the internet outside of facebook was responsible for the spread of this kind of shit. Kiwifarms and tumblr used to be closely linked i believe.
>> No. 37052 [Edit]
>So did social norms change in general, or did internet demographics just change?
The internet's social norms were subsumed by real life's norms like a ball bearing getting pulled in by an electromagnet. This was due to changing demographics, specifically that the newest crop of people coming online were ones who from early childhood were using the internet to talk to people they knew in real life. No previous generation did that.
>On the internet, or in real life too?
>> No. 37053 [Edit]
>Who is the imaginary authority in your head... offline authority... or the collective wisdom... the anticipation of their emotional reaction
On the surface this seems like a false dichotomy. Even when adhering to grammatical rules, I think good writing should still be done with the audience's "emotional reaction" in mind. Decisions of semicolon vs. period, en-dash vs. parenthetical remark, etc. all play a role in influencing how the reader interprets the message. That said, the gist of that quote – that there's a sharp difference in the punctuation employed by "older" generations and the (lack) of punctuation by the newer – is something I've seen mentioned elsewhere and have observed myself. But then again, this might just be due to chat being the dominantly preferred medium for the newer generation, and when each message is comprised of only a single sentence or fragmented thought, punctuation can't really apply (aside from the trailing ellipsis; and ironically the overuse of that is negatively associated with the much-older, less computer literate generation).
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