Doesn't 4/co/ count?

Because nearly all of them are ugly and suck. A lot of the better ones people remember fondly were animated by Japanese studios. Cultural and economic restrictions and behaviors also narrows the scope of the subject matter of western animation. Even "adult" wesern animation almost always relies of juvenile vulgarity. Anime just has more variety, better directing and art style and a better aesthetic. Imageboards also started out as a hub for people with otaku interests. Other people came later. If you don't like it, make your own imageboard and see how it goes.

Post edited on 25th May 2020, 8:24am

>>35087
I feel like you're trolling but I'll respond seriously anyways.
People aren't dedicated to Western anime and that's because there's nothing to be dedicated to. With Eastern (primarily Japanese, of course, but there are some Korean/Chinese works) anime, it's often very clear to see how much effort goes into even low budget or mediocre works to make something visually appeasing and well animated. In those industries, anime is not something you go into in order to flex your ego on other people, as it does not pay well enough and the business structure there has no room for it. It's pure passion all over, even at the lowest rings of the ladder. The Eastern industry very rarely takes any shortcuts that'll greatly sacrifice the quality of even children-centered television shows. Animation is very much an art-form there, and one that is given respect and attention.
The modern Western industry, on the other hand, does not care. There are no "grunt workers" doing menial jobs out of love for their craft, nor is there anyone taking passionate and risky ideas to put onto the template. Despite the fact that Western anime tends to dwarf Eastern budgets, it feels as if it's produced on no more than a nickle most of the times, as animation is always outsourced. Although it is true that outsourcing happens in Eastern animation as well, there are still the "menial jobs" done in Japan along with care taken to make sure that outsourcing does not negatively effect the product.
Automatic animation is found pretty much everywhere in Western anime these days, the most notable of which could be found in Aqua Teen Hunger Force, a show that has pretty much re-used the same 50 or so frames of animation. My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, has also liberally used automatic animation to an absurd extent, and that was an incredibly popular show for some reason. It's one thing if you're a solo animator, but if you want to create animation with a studio, there's no excuse for using automatic other than corporate interference or pure laziness. It ALWAYS looks odd, no matter how well you tween shit.
Western anime is very rarely allowed to leave the "comedy" zone. When it does, it's because the show is approaching some sort of finale or because some storyboard intern made a very poor writing decision. The former would probably be Gravity Falls (although I haven't seen too much of that), and the latter would most assuredly be Adventure Time, which started out as a dumb comedy and tried to be "deep" in one of the most embarrassing ways possible. I could spend an entire post talking about how bad Adventure Time is, but I'll leave it at that. Nearly everything else is a comedy, like your Seth Mcfarlane shows, Adult Swim regulars (Adult Swim has horror/serious stuff, but it's either live action or a dubbed Eastern anime.) The most recent attempt I can remember at Western stuff being serious was with Samurai Jack's final season, which ended very poorly and confusingly, both in tone and actual writing.
Supposedly, all of this is because of cultural reasons. Because of cultural reasons, it became unfashionable to do life drawing on the 1960's, which crippled people's animation skills overtime. Because of cultural reasons, it's unfashionable to consider "cartoons" as anything other than goofy, funny shows, with only a relatively small portion of the watcherbase willing to accept anything outside of that, sort of similar to how Seasame Street made everyone think puppets were only for children.

Of course, now that I think about it, whether or not Western cartoons are bad or good or considered only for children or not has no real bearing on whether or not a bunch of enthusiasts would make an imageboard about it. That's more of just my opinion, isn't it? Well, the big reason nobody makes an imageboard for it is because nobody's made an imageboard for it. It's not impossible, hell you could do it right now if you wanted to.

The thing about imageboards, however, is that they can be a bitch to moderate, get people for, and generally run. Imageboards (or rather, textboards, but same difference as far as we're concerned) are also primarily a Japanese thing. The reason we have them now is because Moot copied from Futabachannel. So you take that they're a real bitch to run and get people for, and take that they're a Japanese thing, and also add in that they're anonymous, then you try and present this to a party that presumably does not care for all 3 of those, and they're very unlikely to make an imageboard over something like a forum or SRS server, like Discord. This is probably why nobody's made an imageboard for Western anime yet, but best of luck to you if you're going to go make one OP.

>>35087
Western 2D animation is dead.
And before it was dead, it was labeled as children only for too many decades. Adults didn't watch animation seriously until The Simpsons, things like Bakshi were the underground.
Now, anime is mostly infinite, you can keep discovering shows if you're interested into it, and talking about new things. Western 2D animation doesn't get new stuff, and the old stuff is more limited. It didn't have a proper OVA market. It had great movies, but in limited numbers. TV animation was almost entirely focused to kids until the 90's, not to teens or to all publics, but specifically to kids. And you can get great things between things aimed for kids, but in the west age cathegories are more restricted and it's less acceptable to enjoy things that aren't mean for you cathegory, so that again goes against discussion.

/co/

>>35093
Wasn't the The Simpsons, as with Southpark, intended for adults but watched and enjoyed far more by children in their original seasons? I feel like most of the adults who watch those now probably only do so because they grew up with these shows.

>>35090
Perfectly put anon!

>>35095
Most probably, children and teens were a big part if not most of the audience. The Simpsons was an enormous merchandising franchise in the 90's and most or all of it was aimed for kids, unlike other, less succesful series. I don't think it was the series fault, but as I was trying to convey adults, or at least most of them, didn't watch animation. That's why you could get waves of moral panic with adult oriented products, since animation = children in most people mindset.
I think there was a cultural difference in the perception of caricature in western and eastern cultures; you could see it in videogames, since they became something to sell to adults western developers did all they could to achieve realism, once again caricature = children. That's also why they adapted all japanese covers and artwork into something grey, serious, "realistic". Because not even children wanted to feel they were treated as children.

>>35096
>That's also why they adapted all japanese covers and artwork into something grey, serious, "realistic".
As a collector, this still ticks me off.

>>35097
I have no idea what he's talking about. Give some examples.

>>35098

>>35099
>>35098
Kirby is infamous for this and is typically used as the prime example.

>>35100
At least angry Kirby is cute.

>>35098
Just look the japanese cover of the first megaman then the USA one for a particularly hideous example.
Sometimes the western art wasn't bad, but you can see there was a trend there.

The megaman box art is the most notorious.

>>35092
>My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic... was an incredibly popular show for some reason
I'm fairly certain there used to be one (maybe even several?) mlp related imageboards. I never understood why this show gained an outsized following either: only thing I can see is that it's probably the closest thing the West has to cgdct (and appealing to the furry fandom subset probably didn't hurt either). But calling it cgdct would be a disservice to the genre considering both its lack of "focus" content-wise (hard to do when you have 7+ seasons) and generally amateurish directing.

>Adult Swim regulars...
There's also "rick and morty" which used to be mentioned online fairly frequently a few years back.

I think another obstacle to creating an imageboard for American cartoons in general is that the fanbase of each is quite splintered, so they may not have anything in common with one another. I.e. the guy who likes Simpsons probably doesn't watch or care for mlp. I suppose this split might exist anime as well (e.g. shounen jump vs. kirara) but unlike the Western counterparts there's still enough content and variation within a given genre to foster discussion.

The problem isn't even as simple as "it's made for children". Children's anime has huge followings! There's several key differences in the industry and culture, but the one I think is the most important is that they understand the importance of visual storytelling in a way that writer-driven western shows do not. They just don't care about the animation aspect of animation, and that's the reason Japanophiles exist: because these people are surprised and overjoyed to find shows that actually care about that are still being made, just not in the English-speaking world.

>>35100
>>35099
Honestly, these aren't good examples. They're either edits or reframing of existing key visuals. What you want is those hideous original illustrations they used to do.

>>35106
I don't feel like grabbing the images but the redone boxwork of the Kikikaikai games (or Pocky and Rocky as known in the west) look incredibly fucking hideous. Even "edgy 90's marketing" can't explain away how bad they look.

>>35107
They hired horrible amateur artists, or worse, graphic designers, to replace the art by talented Japanese artists because it's not profitable enough, and have terrible box layouts on top of it. Awful stuff overall.

>>35105
I think those that develop Western kids' cartoons think little of their target audience--if not belittle them. Yes, they're children, but most kids aren't retards. Give them more than poop jokes; draw and animate better; at least try to write fun but decent story; they'll probably like it. And then, when these kids grow up, maybe they won't have Stockholm syndrome for poorly made cartoons. Hell, they might want to get into animation themselves!
Or maybe I'm more out-of-touch than I realize.

>>35109
No, I agree. The big difference is that children's anime doesn't treat kids and their perspectives as lesser or talk down to them.

>>35099
>>35100
>>35103
>>35102
>>35108
>>35107
Now I see what you meant.

>>35089
>>35094
4chin /co/ is pretty busy but as usual hi noise-to-signal ratio as expect of an anon imageboard

>>35120
Okay, they have two boards for western comics counting the adult one, but that's lined up against many, many boards that are anime related in various degrees. The future is actually a weak example. Even Stormfront probably had a much more favorable board ratio for western comics. And they're exceptional at awful SNR.

>>35131
Why do you care? They're not worth talking about as much.

>>35087
"Western" comics/cartoons tend to be full of political messaging. And of course, the media conglomerates that produce them are mostly the same ones as those that produce Hollywood movies, which in turn means that it's mostly Jewish individuals at the top who get the last say as to what we see on the screen (just look up who runs Marvel, DC, Warner Brothers, Disney etc. on Wikipedia if you're ignorant and don't believe me). I find that watching Jewish propaganda (and perhaps even paying money for it!) is a very degrading and demoralizing experience, hence why I haven't owned a TV for the better part of my life.

Anime on the other hand rarely contains Jewish socio-political propaganda and vulgarity, and whatever political messaging it does contain is rarely intended to besmirch, belittle and defame my ethnic group.

>>35135
Shallow. Whatever these companies produced at their inception before being bought out and whatever is produced by amateurs is also bad. Disney included despite the good things that came from it by others. Even without political messaging, it's bad for a multitude of reasons already mentioned here. The "jews are responsible for everything" mentality is basically a religion. Everything bad can be blamed on some connection, however teneous, with Jewish influence, and if Jews were never around everything would definitely be great. If Jews disappeared tomorrow and things were still bad, you'd just blame it on their lingering influence.

I think that people tend to misunderstand the connection between Jews and the media. The Jews do not produce this idealogical propaganda because they are Jewish, this Idealogical propaganda is a product of many and the people that sit on top just happen to be Jewish(not all of them though). It's really just business, CEOs and the like will follow the money and the money lies with what happens to be trending. A good example would be the Australian gay marriage referendum, pretty much all business unanimously came out in support of it even though most of them were not Jewish or even controlled by Jews. Whilst they were not Jewish they shared what the Jews that control their own business share, the desire for money, the Ideology of a CEO relies solely around whatever will make him and his share holders the most money.

>>35137
If somebody is convinced that a group of people have a shared secret agenda and the ability to influence almost everybody else into following their plan, there's nothing you can do to convince them otherwise. You can't prove they don't without reading their minds.

>>35087
Another point why I watch anime but not American cartoons: I can learn Japanese by watching raw anime, which makes it all feel like a little bit less of a waste of time.

>>35136
>Shallow.
Explain how being better informed and more thoughtful than you equals being shallow.

>Whatever these companies produced at their inception before being bought out
You do know that (other than obviously Disney) all the companies I mentioned were Jewish from the start, right? Wait no, you probably don't know that, seeing how your entire post reeks of ignorance. Anyway, here's a primer on the topic:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/culture/MAGAZINE-supermensches-comic-books-jewish-history-1.5393475
Notice how they brag about using Superman and Captain America to spread anti-German propaganda in order to drag the US into World War 2, long before Americans had any reason to enter the war.

>Even without political messaging, it's bad for a multitude of reasons
Irrelevant to my point, since I did not claim that any of those reasons are invalid. And I also did not blame Jews for all of them. They're also hardly at fault for the fact that I prefer anime's general aesthetic and especially the Japanese style of voice acting.

>The "jews are responsible for everything" mentality is basically a religion.
Notice how you are utterly incapable of pointing at anything I claim to be the fault of a Jew that isn't provably something that a Jew was responsible for; unable to point at any Jewish company that I lambast that isn't provably run by Jews. You are arguing purely based on the "I learned in school and from my TV that antisemitism is bad, m'kay" dogma without going into any facts, much like a religious person would.
>If Jews disappeared tomorrow and things were still bad, you'd just blame it on their lingering influence.
Completely baseless accusation, like everything you spout. And completely contradictory to the fact that I did speak highly of an aspect of Japanese animation that can be traced directly to the much lower degree of involvement of Jews in the production process.

>>35138
>influence almost everybody else
So, do you deny the fact that the US media is dominated by Jews, and that the vast majority of the population is completely ignorant of it despite it being easily provable by doing literally 5 minutes of research on fucking Wikipedia?
When people have no idea who even controls the media they consume at an average rate of roughly one thousand hours per year, is that not proof that they are not properly questioning said media? Is it not easily deducible that people who are ignorant and unquestioning would be easy to influence?

>into following their plan
>plan
I never claimed that there is one grandiose plan in which every detail is laid out. That's something your simplistic mind just invented, because you are incapable of grasping complex behavior patterns such as having common shelling points based on shared ethnic interests, and the only thing you can conceive of is some sort of Alex Jones-style grand conspiracy theory.

>secret agenda you can't prove without reading their minds
When the "American" media mogul and Democrat mega-donor Chaim Saban publicly says "I'm a one-issue guy and my issue is Israel," is his pro-Israeli agenda a secret? Did finding out about it require me to read his mind, or did it merely require me to be more inquisitive and less ignorant than you?

>>35137
>CEOs and the like will follow the money
Wrong, how can you possibly claim there isn't a market for anything but globo-homo propaganda when half of America voted for a man who ran on the basis of kicking out millions of immigrants and banning Muslims from the entering the country. Just look at how all those feminist and SJW movies like Birds of Prey and Female Ghostbusters bomb at the box office. As another example, when Starbucks shareholders voiced concerns to their Jewish CEO that his support for the sterilization and castration of Gentile children (i.e. "transgenderism") might be bad for business, he told them to fuck off and sell their stock.
>the money lies with what happens to be trending.
Who has the biggest influence on what are the current trends and fashions? Is it not Hollywood and the mass media? Who runs Hollywood and the mass media? Do you deny the provable fact that it's Jews who run it?
>the Australian gay marriage referendum, pretty much all business unanimously came out in support of it even though most of them were not Jewish
Being pro-Gay isn't uniquely Jewish, but even if we ignore that, your argument is still pretty bad. When the heads of Chik-Fil-A and Mozilla came out as being anti-Gay marriage, were they not being lambasted, shamed and defamed for months by the mass media? Again, who runs the mass media? Here's a starting point for you to find out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_cross-ownership_in_the_United_States

>>35139
Forgive me for assuming you have the same mentality as people on stormfront based on your post reeking of the same style and terminology.
>They're also hardly at fault for the fact that I prefer anime's general aesthetic and especially the Japanese style of voice acting
Really? Are you sure the ugly aesthetics weren't caused by Jewish influence in art academia and culture?
>Notice how you are utterly incapable of pointing at anything I claim to be the fault of a Jew that isn't provably something that a Jew was responsible for
A Jew would imply they're acting as individuals. "Jewish propaganda" implies the political messages are "Jewish" in nature and that Jews are acting as a collective. Everybody I've seen who has asserted that Jews are acting as a collective believes Jews want to destroy white people so they can take over the world. If you don't think that, fine, but if you do it basically is a religion.

>>35140
Where do these patterns of behavior come from? The Talmud, genetics or Satan?

>>35141
>A Jew would imply they're acting as individuals. "Jewish propaganda" implies the political messages are "Jewish" in nature and that Jews are acting as a collective.
Any collective is comprised of individuals. As each individual makes decisions based on his own perceived self-interest, these interests may be based on a background that is shared with the collective.
I fail to see why this would be so hard to understand, especially when you likely have no problem acknowledging similar behavior patterns among other ethnic or religious groups. If I showed you a study that shows Blacks being more in favor of "affirmative action" discrimination policies than Whites, would you deny that this is a result of the individuals that make up each group having different perceived interests based on their ethnic background?

>>35135

>>35143
Jewish people don't have any meaningful connection to each other besides genetics. Many if not most are not religious. There is no true shared culture. They can come from every part of the world and every economic background. Besides that, I would not take a bunch of quotes and examples pf people and use that to "prove" Japanese people outright hate foreigners as a collective for example, let alone that they inherently hate foreigners. That's a shallow way of thinking, especially when applied to Jews who have much less reason to share an affinity for one another and shared interests and something as complex as taking over the world. The explanation I see a lot is an inherent deviousness and world dominating trait in Jews, which there is no concrete evidence to support. You'd have to show me the genes responsible for that for me to believe that. Mythical "patterns of behavior" that cause a tiny group of people to manipulate the whole world for a plan, any plan, is a religious belief.

Post edited on 31st May 2020, 9:27am

>>35145
>Jewish people don't have any meaningful connection to each other besides genetics
That's bullshit and you know it. If that were true, there wouldn't be any Jews at all today, since after 2000 years in exile, they would've all simply intermarried and blended in to the majority population of their respective host country. There would be no market for the hundreds of newspapers aimed at Jewish readers, nobody to donate to the dozens of Jewish lobby groups, and certainly no basis or political will for carving out a Jewish ethnostate in a highly contested area coveted religiously by both Christians and Muslims.

As for what Jews themselves think constitutes Jewishness, here are some polls:
https://www.pewforum.org/2013/10/01/jewish-american-beliefs-attitudes-culture-survey/

>I would not take a bunch of quotes and examples pf people and use that to "prove" Japanese people outright hate foreigners as a collective for example, let alone that they inherently hate foreigners
Completely irrelevant to anything I was saying. That said, if you were to pose the question "should Japan make it easier for foreigners to immigrate and give the foreigners free money" and poll all foreigners who live in Japan, and then all ethnic Japanese in Japan, would you be surprised if the indigenous Japanese were, collectively on average, less in favor of mass-immigration to Japan than the foreigners? Answer that question and you're getting closer to the point I'm making about Jews.

>>35146
For most of that time they were religious. Many Jews did integrate if that was a possibility. As soon as they truly stopped being religious, they were not part of the group anymore. Now most are not religous, so that glue is weakening. I can't see any outcome for this besides a shrinking and dissipation of the core "Jewish people". Except now we have genetic testing, so voluntarily leaving may become more difficult.
>Completely irrelevant to anything I was saying.
That's what you're doing with Jews to prove they as a collective want world domination. Quotes, examples of individuals and assumed connections. Or do you not think that? You haven't denied it.

>35140

>Wrong, how can you possibly claim there isn't a market for anything but globo-homo propaganda when half of America voted for a man who ran on the basis of kicking out millions of immigrants and banning Muslims from the entering the country.

I agree there has to be an agenda beyond all of that and the changes in media in the last decade, sometimes it's even scary how obvious it is, but what do you think that agenda actually is?
I always thought it had to be with the definitve supression of leftism as an economical alternative, reducing it to some idiotic and perpetual debate about minorities and identities, but I understand conservatives see it differently. I know there's this old school of thought that equals jews with marxism-leftism in some sort of centuries old tendency or conspiracy, but knowing part of their reasonings I can't say I agree with them or see their points.
So maybe I don't think there's a jewish agenda, but an oligarchy agenda, confronted to another (industral) oligarchy agenda and lots of jews happen to be rich and members of those oligarchies (mostly the first one), while they also traditionally had control of the media.

Could you guys please take this jew stuff to /tat/? Thanks.

>>35144
I haven't read the Touhou side-stuff that much, but according to that same wiki page isn't she just reading a shitty tabloid? That's hardly scathing and direct political criticism of anybody. Although as far as I know Touhou tends to do quite a bit with the politics of the human village and human/youkai relations.
What people mean more than just having a political nature to your stories or referencing (possible) real world events is letting that drive the story. As far as I've played, at least, there is no Touhou game where Donald Trump (or Abe) appears as a small child who throws golden toilets everywhere, builds walls to impede your progress, and teams up with Micheal Farage, who is also a small child, in order to #Brexit the human village out of Gensoukyou. Nor is there ever a time in the series where a black stage boss comes up to Reimu to preach to her about how much white (Japanese?) privilege she has. Or Alice and Marisa trying to convince everyone else to let their gay love have a chance, because #lovewins.
The otaku sphere has largely avoided pointless, repetitive, preachy political narratives that are still stuck in the year 2016, and has largely avoided losing its purpose to push said narratives at the cost of having a well-done result. If it weren't like that, you'd really see there'd be much, much worse than Reimu commenting on a tabloid with some catchy headlines.

>>35092
The existence of Aeon Flux proves you wrong.

>>35151
Anything else? Certainly non-sitcom adult animations didn't stop after Aeon Flux, right?

>>35150
I'm just incredibly paranoid of all arguments which seem to lead towards presenting a "Western entertainment is political/Japanese entertainment is not political" dichotomy, at this point. I'm not going to disagree that including political messages in entertainment can be done poorly - that is absolutely the case; however, it often feels to me that the reason for criticizing a specific execution is fueled by the specific content/ideals presented.
Also, I do think that is a fairly obvious analogy that ZUN presented - it's just that it's also well-executed, and does not feel jarring.

>>35144
That's not really actually political it's just Zun being Zun and inserting modern trends into his work. But you do find politics in anime such as the latest season of BHA which has an interracial couple, Akame ga Kill which has a gay man, Anime often does mention racism like in Black Lagoon and it dues touch on Feminism as well. However, as >>35153 said it's not often jarring or heavily dwelt on.

>>35132
This shit ... it's altogether very cute of you. It's not even enough to you for there to be a presumption that western animation is all crap, no... it seems you need that to extend to boards merely for discussing western cartoons, and comics. And then the lone example of 4skin has to be adequate for tarring and feathering any imageboards. And then that leads to "JYou doubt this, what's your agenda for doubting stuff?"

>>35155
>presumption that western animation is all crap
Did I say that? Winsor Mccay made nice stuff.
>the lone example of 4skin
There's also 8chan. And the second half of this thread. This website already has a purpose. "Doubting" why something not part of that purpose isn't more popular on imageboards here instead of a place where people care about that thing is suspicious. Your mannerisms are also suspicious. So why do you care?

>>35149
If you don't want to hear about Jews, why do you post in a thread that is specifically about cartoons created by them? Virtually all American cartoons are produced by Jews, including the racist anti-Japanese war propaganda flick in the OP pic, see picrelated.
You probably never complained that one shouldn't discuss how Japanese cultural attitudes influence the content of anime, so why do you care so much when that same type of discussion is applied to Jews and the cartoons they produce? What makes Jews so special to you? Are you like >>35136 and hold some weird religious belief that a cartoon creator's background magically stops influencing his work when he is identified as a Jew?

>>35153
>I'm just incredibly paranoid of all arguments which seem to lead towards presenting a "Western entertainment is political/Japanese entertainment is not political" dichotomy
>it often feels to me that the reason for criticizing a specific execution is fueled by the specific content/ideals presented.
Not sure if you were referring to me specifically, but as I openly said in >>35135 it's not so much that anime doesn't contain any political messaging at all, it's just that when it's there, it's usually non-Jewish in nature and doesn't bother me as much. BlazBlue for example made some thinly veiled references to the alleged human experimentation programs of Unit 731 and contrasted it with the nuclear destruction of Nagasaki and Hiroshima. I notice this stuff just as much as I notice political messaging in Jewish media, but it doesn't bother me much because it's not an attack on me.
A more overt and specifically Jewish example would be Angel Cop, the story of which would never have been greenlit by a Jewish-owned animation studio: it asserted that the US is run by Jews who were now attempting to take over and/or destroy Japan. The Jew who translated it into English for the American market censored all references to Jewish media control and political power (but not the anti-Americanism, mind you) and even made one of the Japanese characters express disdain for Hitler:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDdr-1iOqag

>>35135
Lengthy political discussion aside, there's something gross about the style in jewish material that has disgusted me since before I even knew jews were a thing

Political discussion belongs to /tat/ and this thread probably is a bait anyways, so I'm locking it.