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32828 No. 32828 [Edit]
This has been something that's been brewing in my mind for a long time. Most people here have similar negative thoughts about 3-d women. What are the exact problems specific to 3-d women, physically and psychologically? Do you think their "design" could be improved upon, or is that a hopeless ambition? If you could, how would you make a better woman? I'm seriously interested in this.
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>> No. 32829 [Edit]
Visually speaking I think 3D looks bad mostly because of how unnecessarily detailed it is. With 2D the designs are often simple, but pure. Each stroke of the brush has an intentionality to it, and adds something to the whole. Look closely at 2D and you can see it's creator's hand in it.

When I look at 3D the opposite happens. The closer you look the more I see the flaws. Skin for example, it looks OK at a distance, but look closer and then you see the little hairs and the pores and the lumpy texture. Look under a strong magnifying glass and skin looks a bit like a gross alien landscape. Every part of 3D is like that to me, it looks random and gross without regard for any kind of aesthetic.

That said, my problem isn't with 3-d women, but 3D itself I guess. So sorry if that doesn't really answer your question.
>> No. 32830 [Edit]
You have a point, but every joy in this world is just an illusion. While up close, skin might look strange, as long as I can't see that, it's fine for me. The less wrinkles and spots on a person, the better looking they are. That's only part of it, but it's a big part. If you never knew about 2-d in the first place though, do you think you would still be put-off by 3-d? Also, what about the psychological side of things?
>> No. 32831 [Edit]
They don't actually exist and is thus capable of possessing unrealistic qualities like infallibility or unconditional love.
>> No. 32832 [Edit]
If I hadn't been exposed to 2D for most of my life I don't know. I think I would still be mostly put off by 3D, but probably less so since I wouldn't have anything to compare it too but other 3D.

Psychologically speaking it's the same sort of thing for me. 2D characters are almost always written as ideals of some kind. They have ideal loves, or the kindness of a buddha, practically any trait they have is some kind of extreme. Even when they are "conflicted" or "complex" it is in a way that paradoxically only makes them greater than the sum of their parts. They're practically always larger than life even if only in small ways. Like the characters in any good story.

3D on the other hand basically never achieves any sort of ideal, even when they do it's usually not lasting. Practically all 3D people are mediocre and nearly entirely self-interested. When they do approach some ideal, it's almost always to the neglect of the rest of their character. When they are "complex" or "conflicted" it only weakens them makes them seem absurd. This all applies to me as well of course.

I suppose it could all be summed up by "truth is more of a stranger than fiction". I guess I just learned the wrong thing growing up reading books and watching anime, I internalized that the world should work like fiction. With great heroes, great loves, and always suffused with meaning import, and craft. The real world is nothing like that, my world is not at least. I don't think I can ever reconcile myself with this stranger reality after having spent my crucial formative years learning to love something else.
>> No. 32836 [Edit]
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By both of your yardsticks, 3-d men aren't any better than 3-d woman. Does everybody here think like this, because if so, why is contempt for 3-d woman more prevalent? Would you rather be friends with a 3-d man or a 3-d woman? Would you rather spend your time with 3-d men or 3-d women? If the answer is 3-d men, why? I've seen people on this site talk about their male friends before, so I know some people have their 3-d preferences.

For me personally, I dislike women's propensities for conformity, valuing security over ambition, indirect aggression, emotional thinking, attention craving and averageness. Most men and women are average, but there's more abnormal men than woman.

On the physical side, menstruation, cellulite and body hair could all be removed. Increasing muscle density would also be an improvement without adding too much bulk.

Post edited on 31st Jul 2019, 10:51am
>> No. 32838 [Edit]
Don't put words in my mouth. Fictional men are still better than 3d ones. Ideals like epic heroes or saints who may or may not actually exists can affect the hearts of many men and inspire worship and awe whereas 3d men of virtue are few and far between. My social preferences also should be its own topics. Socializing predominantly within your sex is a common phenomenon if you don't know and is not exclusive to fans of 2d. Try to be more specific in your questions. You started off with a 3d vs 2d questions but brought in male vs female relationship out of nowhere. What even do you actually want to ask?
>> No. 32839 [Edit]
This thread was never about 3-d vs 2-d. It seems pretty clear that many people here prefer 3-d men to 3-d women though. Maybe there's outside reasons for people befriending mostly their own sex besides preferring one to another, but average people are expected to have some friends of the opposite sex, while for people here that's much rarer.

I'll ask directly, do you like 3-d men or 3-d women more? Do you really not prefer one over another?
>> No. 32840 [Edit]
>while for people here that's much rarer
Even if this completely uncitated and unsupported piece of statement is true, that would still be a matter of individual quirks rather than a common quality among people who like anime. Maybe the reasons they have no female friends is because they secretly want to have sex and feel awkward interacting with women. Maybe it's because they view the general traits of woman as something inferior and unpleasant which is a common view. Personally, I just don't understand women and thus cannot form a relationship with them beyond the superficial. I can have friendly conversation with a female but if I banter or talk vulgarly with them like I do with my male friends I'll obviously offend or hurt their feelings. If I train hard maybe I could tailor my social skills to able to please any women but I can't imagine something like that to be fulfilling to me.
>> No. 32841 [Edit]
>the general traits of woman as something inferior and unpleasant which is a common view
Which are? What are the specific traits? That's what this thread is about. Please describe in detail what the issues 3-d women are. Not compared to 2-d women, compared to 3-d men.
>> No. 32843 [Edit]
Speaking generally - which means that I am forming a very rough approximation out of all women's traits so just because a woman exist which contradict these traits doesn't mean it's wrong - and subjectively - which means that I am not basing this on a systematic and tenable study but purely my own feelings - the undesirable qualities of females are as follows: emotionality, illogicality, passivity, inferior intellect, inferior physique, sensitivity, lack of honor, a relatively higher preoccupation with wealth and status than males, hypersociality, disdain for violence and the vulgar, interests different than that of males.

All of these traits are not negative per se despite my belief that females are generally inferior. Some like hating violence or being emotional can be argued to be a positive trait. These traits just explain why men and women are usually immiscible outside of romantic or sexual relationship. This doesn't mean that all women are inferior to men. Being the loser that I am, a lot of women are better people than me and I've met a lot of females that command more respect from me than males. They are simply statistically less significant.
>> No. 32848 [Edit]
>This thread was never about 3-d vs 2-d. It seems pretty clear that many people here prefer 3-d men to 3-d women though.
Is this necessarily a given? There are likely many here who prefer to interact over a text-based medium as opposed to in-person. While the person on the other end may not be strictly 2D, interacting strictly over text does similarly reduce the level of detail you have to process.

That aside, 3D people are necessarily motivated by self-interest first and foremost which means that in order to avoid being taken advantage of you must likewise constantly be on guard. This does not apply with 2D, so you are free to fully immerse yourself and have a sense of liberation that can never be obtained when interacting with 3D people.
>> No. 32852 [Edit]
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Thank you for your answer. This is more what I was looking for. I'm wondering what makes a person "sensitive" or emotional. Those are pretty broad things. Stuff like honor seems more cultural than built into people too. Would you consider women with schizoid or antisocial personality disorder to be an improvement over average women? They're less sensitive, less emotional, and probably less passive.

I think it's a shame that society punishes women for being more reserved and stoic. Many learn to put on an act out of necessity. A big part of it is other women. The way women treat each other is one of their worst aspects.

Post edited on 31st Jul 2019, 9:14pm
>> No. 32853 [Edit]
I can't really answer since a big part of why I avoid women is because they are not understandable to me and my experience dealing with women is nil. I can only opine on their outward behavior not what goes inside their mind. Whether an emotional woman is the same as a emotional man or whether their apparent sensitivity is caused by a delicate ego or a culture that reinforces showing affectations. Being more logical and in control of your emotion is a virtue for both sex but I am not sure how schizoid or antisocial disorders relate to that. Even if it makes them more objective, it'll also make them socially maladjusted so it's not much of an improvement.

>it's a shame that society punishes women for being more reserved and stoic
Really? I thought being quiet is well sought in a women and jokes about how women never stop talking is popular. Being stoic is good insofar as it let you keep your calm but proper emotional reaction is still necessary for socializing.
>> No. 32861 [Edit]
I am not the person(s) you were talking to but if I may, I would like to provide my input.
When it comes to human nature, I am more drawn to the feminine. Sure I like beer and guns and steak and other manly shit, but female nature is more emotional and warm. So if I had a choice, I would probably have more female friends than male friends. The only problem is, most of the women I have met in meat space are incredibly unpleasant, or at least the ones around my age are (I'm in my early 20s). Most of the women around my age are rude and obnoxious, and the ones I have befriended in the past had ulterior motives.
This is really the major reason I was drawn to SoL series with all female casts in the first place. Sure they are attractive and cute, but the main reason I watch them is because I like to imagine what it would be like if they were my friends. If I was right there with them, drinking tea after school or hanging out in a shopping mall or what have you. And most of the time, I am not even attracted to these characters in a romantic or sexual way.
So if you ask me, one of the major things I would change about 3D women is their personalities.
>> No. 32864 [Edit]
>but female nature is more emotional and warm
Emotional yes, I don't get where you get warm from. I don't think you can say personality can be seperated from nature, regardless of what the predominant culture is. All of those idealistic depictions don't seem to have any basis in reality. I really wonder where they came from in the first place. Again, this isn't about the made up bullshit version of women that only exists in fiction. Why are you comparing 3-d men to 2-d women?
>> No. 32865 [Edit]
Yes I've felt this too. Nothing makes me feel more content than watching a group of girls in an anime do things together and show that they're genuine friends.

The way I interpret "warm" is that they're more open about showing their affection and friendship toward each other. The portrayal of men in media usually doesn't focus heavily on things such as their feelings or the way they are genuinely grateful to be friends with someone. Such things are antithetical to the idea of masculinity. On the other hand, SoL/GGDCT anime focus almost entirely on these ideas, whether it's Azunyan tearing up at the idea of her friends graduating and leaving her, or Yuzuko wishing that their group will remain friends forever. When watching such shows you can't help but feel a sense of warmth and belonging as if there's no other place where you'd rather be than among their circle of friends, comforted by the fact that the bonds you share are everlasting (and thanks to the nature of the 2D medium, they are indeed eternal).

Post edited on 1st Aug 2019, 6:40pm
>> No. 32866 [Edit]
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>The way I interpret "warm" is that they're more open about showing their affection and friendship toward each other.
In real life, or in media? In real life, female relationships don't seem that different to me. They're not so much deeper and more affectionate from what I've seen. Maybe there's more bullshit and deception though. Why even bring up what goes on in media?
>The portrayal of men in media usually doesn't focus heavily on things such as their feelings or the way they are genuinely grateful to be friends with someone. Such things are antithetical to the idea of masculinity.
I really don't know about that. I think it's more of a western thing. In some countires, heterosexual men holding hands in public is normal. I really don't know what you mean by "antithetical to the idea of masculinity". What is the idea of masculinity to you? Berserk and Jojo are just two examples of very close male relationships being depicted.

Frankly, I think yuri overtones are so common in SoL because it panders to the otaku demographic. Otaku are predominatly men who both desire women, and fear/resent average real life people. So the solution is depicting girls with no undesirable or threatening traits in mushy lovey-dovey friendshing that are just platonic enough for the target demographic to imagine being in a relationship with one. On top of that there's no men around to stink up the screen. The viewer is the only man, so there's no perceived competition to make things even a little uncomfortable. It's like a mental harem.

Post edited on 1st Aug 2019, 10:25pm
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