This is a board for topics that don't fit on other boards, but that are still otaku/hobby related.
[Return]
Posting mode: Reply
Name
Email
Subject   (reply to 31977)
Message
BB Code
File
File URL
Embed   Help
Password  (for post and file deletion)
  • Supported file types are: BMP, EPUB, GIF, JPEG, JPG, MP3, MP4, OGG, PDF, PNG, PSD, SWF, TORRENT, WEBM
  • Maximum file size allowed is 7000 KB.
  • Images greater than 260x260 pixels will be thumbnailed.
  • Currently 2298 unique user posts.
  • board catalog

File 154867410195.jpg - (110.56KB , 847x1075 , e27e0cc269eaf0ce8fea77a010037f708e31e243.jpg )
31977 No. 31977 [Edit]
I'm curious what you think of the whole subbing situation nowadays? I know fansubbing is pretty much dead but some botched translation has brought back the scene (GJM is the most prominent one coming to mind at the moment) to an extent. This was the first time in a while I saw drama about localized subs (I'm not gonna bother going into it, it was dumb) and the subber justified it by calling people complaining weebs and a whole shitshow about it. (shitflinging about nationality and politics, standard dumb flame war shit). I talked to someone who speaks Japanese and apparent Horriblesubs is fine for what they are, and if that's to be believed, I appreciate them for bypassing all the dumb "artistic" shit and TL notes, for forgoing all the drama involving subtitles and generally being good enough. I just realized though, most anime viewers are basically taking the meaning of the media with someone else's word. I wonder how often translators are deceptive and "liberally" interpret things, which eventually becomes direct influence over what the characters are saying or straight up guesses for whatever reason. I imagine people with no connection to Japan besides being wapanese wouldn't be able to speak it enough to even tell.
I'm quite curious to learn Japanese now and see how much changes.
What do you think?
Expand all images
>> No. 31978 [Edit]
I still use Horrible subs. It has problems but they tend to be minor vis-vis other sub groups. Horrible subs will sometimes use words like normie and sometimes use lower level swear words like sh*t and bitch where they should not be, there are also some Americanisms but usually not extreme. It's bad enough that I sometimes want to find new subs but every time I try I find the subs I end up getting are far worse with more swearing, more Americanisms and often having a completely different emotional tone than the character should be using. Things bother me with Horrible subs but it's usually once or twice a cour of a show, less even.
>> No. 31979 [Edit]
>>31977
>Horriblesubs
They just rip the "official" licensed subtitles on autopilot. As such, the quality varies - most anime streaming/publishing companies will subcontract subtitles to a variety of translators who vary in style, translation/localization attitudes, and quality. Also, keep in mind they have to stick to a weekly schedule - and can't just fall behind like a fansubbing group in case of difficulties.
Ultimately, you lose some linguistic and cultural nuance. The translation/localization debate is essentially about what is more important: conveying the raw words of the author, even if the context is lost on the audience; or conveying the meaning/intent of the author with a more approachable (to a Westerner) context, even if it risks becoming further away from the actual meaning/intent or - again - losing that nuance.
>> No. 31980 [Edit]
>>31978
I’m still not sure what Americanism means in subbing, like dropping honorifics, using western phrases? I seriously doubt it’s all Americans doing the subbing, and besides Commie that does it to troll I don’t think it’s intentional.
(Speaking of trolling, I’ve noticed people on nyaa will throw a hissyfit if the description contains anything related to the US, there was a recent show that didn’t get licensed and in one episode the description contained imperial measurements, which people were upset about. The episode contained no actual measurements and metric was used earlier in the series. That’s probably what I get for reading comments on a public tracker though, and one used by retards mostly at that.) But yeah that was my point, HS causes the least issues while watching,
>>31979
I’m aware they rip pro subs, but the ripping bypasses most of the problems fansubs have, and the people are paid to do it. They’re not just some loser doing it for asspats.
>> No. 31981 [Edit]
>>31980
Using American colloquialisms and the general casual language they use which often goes completely against the characters they are having say it.

It's probably not all Americans subbing it but American culture has spread quite far and many people either use it in day to day life or will sub it that way because they know many others do. If they are from a non English background there is a good chance they learned English from American media as well.
>> No. 31982 [Edit]
>>31981
English subtitles, and the Anglosphere in general, tend to assume American culture - to the point of the UK Blu-Ray release of Kiniro Mosaic using American English. I don't agree that's the case with non-English subtitles, however, unless they're translated from English - which happens a bit more often than it should, even in the "licensed" world.
>> No. 31983 [Edit]
I think the message here is simple: learn japanese
>> No. 31984 [Edit]
This is vaguely related but maybe not really.
Fansubbing for western films is still fairly active in my country despite the availability of rips. I try to watch English-language movies without subs but I still need them occasionally.
Bad amateur translations are sometimes infuriating, sometimes hilarious but I have a degree of understanding for this.
However even commercial, professional releases are full of baffling mistakes. To me that's unforgivable.
When dialogue includes actual technical or scientific terms half the time translations will either attempt to omit them completely or end up full of botched guesswork.
Sometimes even simple stuff gets confused. Several times I've noticed a word as widely used as "chopper" (as in helicopter) awkwardly translated to things meaning "shredder" or "meat cleaver," turning unremarkable lines into jarring non-sequiturs.
How can something this obvious get through quality control? Even if everyone involved was clueless and confused about "choppers" a one minute internet search would be enough to fix that.

Another example is from some book. You know it's bad if even without access to the original text you can deduce what the author meant despite the translator's incompetence.
In a passage about precision shooting there was some statement about bullets and matches (as in the thingies used to start fires) that made no sense to me.
I read the sentence again and realized the translator must have encountered the term "match grade ammunition" for the first time. Instead of looking it up he decided to crudely invent some bullshit on the spot.
Book was crap, I didn't even finish it. But somehow the translator's deliberate ignorance annoyed me more than bad literature.

It makes me angry because motherfuckers get PAID for this shit and get to call themselves professionals.

>>31983
I'll have to do this eventually, seems like the only sure solution.
>> No. 31985 [Edit]
You know it's funny you mention this because I was watching the OVAs for Eromanga Sensei recently, and I noticed the subs for the first episode were just awful. It didn't take away from the story and you could figure out what they were saying, but the subtitles had awful grammar and were borderline engrish. I'm not sure if this was a fansub or someone from a major company fucked up, but either way it was pretty bad and it's interesting to see I'm not the only one experiencing this.
>> No. 31986 [Edit]
>>31984
That's awful. What language are they translating too?
>> No. 31987 [Edit]
>>31985
Considering it’s an OVA probably some fansubber. I’ve noticed a decent standard for pro subs in the last decade or so but it’s been slipping recently.
>> No. 31988 [Edit]
>>31987
Lately I've found "professional" subs to be noticably worse than their hobbyist counterparts. Absolutely none of them have ever heard of typesetting and they obviously don't check for typos.
>> No. 31989 [Edit]
File 154873140826.gif - (1.47MB , 480x270 , tsundereelf.gif )
31989
>>31985
It was by fansub group and I think English wasn't their native language. Other groups put out better translations in following days.
>> No. 31990 [Edit]
I find it extremely sad to see what has become of subs these days. I remember a time when sub groups were run by idiots who fought over the same series giving up 8 English groups subbing shit like Toradora at the same time, but ignoring stuff that has gone unsubbed for ages. It was annoying, but I'd much rather go back to that. I used to hate horrible subs and CR, in fact I still do hate CR, but I've been forced to suck it up and deal. I watch almost everything now using horrible subs because what other option is there? precure and similar shows being the only things I don't watch via horrible subs due to them not being on CR to rip from. I'm glad to see at least some groups are trying to keep fansubs alive, CR'd crap has been pretty bad lately.

>I wonder how often translators are deceptive and "liberally" interpret things
This seems to happen more with dubs than subs. Maybe because people are less likely to notice? I dunno.
>> No. 31991 [Edit]
>>31990
Fansubbers are retarded and fucked with the shows too much back in the day (TL notes, creative subtitles, etc) , and were often very slow. They also often were very retarded people, and I don’t want to watch a retard’s subtitles, especially if they scream “WEEB!!!!!1” when you complain about dropping honorifics. I really think ripping professional subs improved anime a lot.
I do appreciate people who fansub older anime, though. Not a lot of people see them but the people who watch them and are subbing are usually very passionate about it.
>> No. 31992 [Edit]
>>31991
>professional subtitles
Anon... you're aware that a sizeable portion of them is (or at least was) made by ex-fansubbers and often following similar principles, right?
>> No. 31993 [Edit]
>>31992
I'm sure that's something we all know. By "professional" (what I would rather call sellouts) I'm sure that anon means people who are paid to sub with deadlines and scripts to work with along with 'some' accountability for their actions.
>> No. 31994 [Edit]
>>31993
>sellouts
What's wrong with being paid for your work?
>> No. 31995 [Edit]
>>31994
Nothing in itself, but it depends on who's writing the checks. In this case it's the company that killed fan subs in the first place.
>> No. 31996 [Edit]
>>31995
I don't think they're guilty of "killing fan subs", even if their actions led to it. It's more that "fan subs" could not compete.
>> No. 31997 [Edit]
I see an interesting comparison towards fansubbing and open-source software, it’s kinda hard to justify not being paid for your software if you can be, unless you just want to do it as a hobby or rely on benefactors like GNU.
>> No. 31998 [Edit]
>>31986
From English to a certain slavic language.
>> No. 31999 [Edit]
>>31997
And even open-source software is increasingly trying to find a way to monetize their work. Fansubbing, being tolerated in no small part thanks to the non-profit, within-fandom angle, can't really do that.
>> No. 32000 [Edit]
>>31999
I don't see an issue with open-source software seeking funds so long as the software still remains open source.
>> No. 32001 [Edit]
>>32000
Sure. Except that model is also running out. Look at a lot of server software which now follow a "open core + proprietary enterprise add-ons" path.
>> No. 32002 [Edit]
You guys act like fansubbers all worked for free. You think they never took donations?
>> No. 32003 [Edit]
>>32002
Taking donations and having it be your job is very different, hence the software comparison
>> No. 32005 [Edit]
>>32003
I don't think it's nearly as different as you think. From Street performers to e-celebrities plenty of people make a living off donations and would likely call it their job. Where do you draw the line exactly? Having a wage? Would you then say people who make a living off commission don't have a real job just as they don't have a fixed income? What about people who need tips(which are practically donations) to make ends meet? If it's about having a boss then what of people who are self employed? How about people who get salaries but work for volunteer agencies funded by donations? Where do they all fit in? Do people who work for the red cross not have jobs? Or is it about the of money they make? What if someone makes more from donations than they would at a part time job, but less than a full time job? What then?
>> No. 32006 [Edit]
>>32005
>e-celebrities
Recent trend, and only the top 1% has enough money to survive off it.
>Where do you draw the line exactly?
I'd argue "being able to survive based off those donations exclusively". That's the line at which people begin being comfortable actually treating their hobby work as a full-time thing.
>What if someone makes more from donations than they would at a part time job, but less than a full time job? What then?
Depends on how much they need to survive. Some people then get a second part-time job, which eats less time away from their hobby project than a full-time job would, but more than being able to work on it exclusively.
Also, most profitable free software relies on corporate sponsorships, support licenses, paid "enterprise" features, and occasionally high-value donations more than individual users pitching in $1 each - as I said, only the top 1% ever get to that level, but in the software world there's a lot going on in the backend that most users might not even be aware of.
>> No. 32007 [Edit]
>>31977
>I talked to someone who speaks Japanese and apparent Horriblesubs is fine for what they are
That's how I feel as well. Whenever you see an out of context pun in English its because there was a pun that made sense in Japanese and the translators don't care enough to make one fit. A little bit will always be lost in translation but horrible subs are doing a consistently serviceable job tot he point anyone who cares enough to complain should just learn Japanese. I don't say this to be condescending I just think something will always be lost in translation and whether that is 9% or 10% isn't worth obsessing over if you don't care to enough to prevent losing anything in translation by never requiring a translation in the first place.
>> No. 32008 [Edit]
> fine for what they are
They don't translate OP/ED. That alone makes them shit.
>> No. 32009 [Edit]
>>32008
I'd assume that translating song lyrics is a bit trickier than dialogue though (although it's a pity there are some obscure anime for which I haven't found a good OP/ED translation)
>> No. 32010 [Edit]
>>32009
I'd assume lyrics for songs are by far easier to acquire than full episode scripts.
>> No. 32011 [Edit]
>>32008
>>32009
>>32010
The issue is licensing! Japanese music companies charge a fortune for anything they can and limit contracts as much as possible. In fact, the license for using a song's lyrics is separate from the license for using the song itself - and TV anime usually only comes with the latter. Western licensors, as such, don't bother acquiring lyrics rights because they don't really see a business reason to.
>> No. 32015 [Edit]
>>32011
>>32009
The reasons why CR doesn't translate opening and ending themes does not change the fact they don't translate opening and ending themes. Just as the reasons why they don't host many kids anime, or why they change character names around in anime such as Jojo does not matter. Crap is still crap regardless of why it's crap.
>> No. 32016 [Edit]
>>32015
You are literally the only anonymous I’ve ever met that cares about kids anime getting subbed/hosted. It should be simple enough to watch as listening practice if you know grammar okayish!

View catalog

Delete post []
Password  
Report post
Reason  


[Home] [Manage]



[ Rules ] [ an / foe / ma / mp3 / vg / vn ] [ cr / fig / navi ] [ mai / ot / so / tat ] [ arc / ddl / irc / lol / ns / pic ] [ home ]