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File 162558425178.png - (613.26KB , 3284x5128 , 2016_Anime_Highly_Scored.png )
35784 No. 35784 [Edit]
I have conducted a thorough analysis of anime from the year 2016. The primary purpose of this analysis is to identify works which have artistic merit, and to classify the nature of that artistic merit. Secondarily, my intent here is to rank the works in terms of their superiority in various categories. This will allow for comparison with other surveys of 2016 anime. This analysis is an expression of my own personal opinions and did not involve input from anyone else. I did this for my own intellectual and personal satisfaction, but I also hope that others may find it interesting or useful. At the very least, maybe this will generate some interesting discussion. Additionally, if you're looking for anime to watch, you can peruse through the specific categories I've provided to identify works that are likely to suit your tastes. 

Only anime which started airing in 2016 are considered here. Meaning that anime for which the first season aired before 2016 are not considered (ex. neither Hibike Euphonium nor Love Live are candidates here). The considered anime are evaluated on the basis of all seasons that have aired (not just the first season in 2016). Movies are not included unless they are related to a TV anime (ex. Bungou Stray Dogs). I am conducting reviews for other years using this same system. Annual reviews are typically done as soon as the year ends, but I believe my methodology here is superior for conducting reviews of years retrospectively. Furthermore, classifying the year's best works only by season/genre I find is an ineffective method for identifying meritorious works, so I've included more-specific categories. 

Categories and their results are listed below. Winning titles for each category are separated by commas, with the superior titles being listed first. For the genre categories I've provided two answers (the winning title followed by the runner up). However, polls for anime of the season and anime of the year typically list many top candidates in their results, so I've followed a similar procedure with my results here. For the anime of the season and year results, I've listed the top-5 candidates in order of superiority, with the winning title listed first and the progressively lesser titles listed afterwards.

Regarding the genre results, there are a couple important details:
Note: titles are classified by their superiority with respect to the stated genre alone, not overall quality (for example: x anime is a good sci-fi anime regardless of the writing being terrible, y anime is a good romance anime even though the comedy is unfunny, etc...). For classifications according to overall quality, please see the best-in-season and best-in-year results, or the list of highly scored anime that is provided much further below as well as in the attached table(pic related). Keep in mind that some highly rated shows don't necessarily fit neatly into a genre. Conversely, excelling in a genre category is not necessarily an indication of overall quality. 
Note: the romance genre here refers exclusively to conventional hetero romance; shoujo ai and shounen ai are provided here as separate genres. 

Best by season listed below.
Winter: Prince of Stride, Hai to Gensou no Grimgar, Koukaku no Pandora, Norn9, Reikenzan 
Spring: Sakamoto Desu ga, Tanaka-kun wa Itsumo Kedaruge, Shounen Maid, Kuma Miko, Sansha Sanyou 
Summer: ReLIFE, Amanchu, Dream Festival, Tenkyou no Alderamin, Orange
Fall: Flip Flappers, Sangatsu no Lion, Shakunetsu no Takkyuu Musume, Udon no Kuni no Kiniro Kemari, Yuri on Ice

Best for the entire year: Flip Flappers, Sangatsu no Lion, Prince of Stride, ReLIFE, Shakunetsu no Takkyuu Musume

Best for each genre listed below.
Action: Koutetsujou no Kabaneri, Bubuki Buranki 
Adventure: Flip Flappers, Hai to Gensou no Grimgar
Comedy: Sakamoto Desu ga, Tanaka-kun wa Itsumo Kedaruge
Drama: Sangatsu no Lion, Hai to Gensou no Grimgar
Fantasy: Re Zero, Drifters
Historical: Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu, Joker Game 
Military: Tenkyou no Alderamin, Drifters 
Music: Dream Festival, Magic-Kyun Renaissance
Mystery/Psychological: Joker Game, Bungou Stray Dogs 
Romance: Norn9, ReLIFE
Sci-Fi: Koukaku no Pandora, Flip Flappers
Shoujo ai: Amanchu, Flip Flappers
Shounen ai: Yuri on Ice, Shounen Maid
Slice of Life: Udon no Kuni no Kiniro Kemari, Shounen Maid 
Sports: Prince of Stride, Shakunetsu no Takkyuu Musume 
Supernatural/Magic: Reikenzan, Bungou Stray Dogs 

Strongest genres of the year: Drama, Adventure, Sports, Shoujo ai, Comedy 
Weakest genres of the year: Fantasy, Mystery/Psychological 


Categories which evaluate other noteworthy characteristics are listed below, separated into 5 general sections. Some of these categories refer to characteristics that are ubiquitous to all anime, such as audiovisuals and story. However, other categories evaluate characteristics that are only relevant to a smaller subset of anime, such as humour or suspense. To reflect the differing amount of potential candidates in either case, three winning titles per category are provided for ubiquitous characteristics, whereas only two winning titles are provided for characteristics that are less consistently relevant. Again, winning titles are listed first and the runner(s) up are listed afterwards ordered by superiority with respect to the specified category. In other words, this template is used:
[Category]: [best title], [second best title], [third best title]

Visual Characteristics
Best art style: Flip Flappers, Hai to Gensou no Grimgar, Prince of Stride
Best animation: Kiznaiver, Koutetsujou no Kabaneri, Flip Flappers
Best cinematography: Orange, Hai to Gensou no Grimgar, Yuri on Ice
Best character designs: Yuri on Ice, Drifters, Amanchu
Best outfits: Yuri on Ice, Shuumatsu no Izetta, Amanchu

Audio Characteristics
*Best soundtrack: Norn9, Planetarian, Prince of Stride
Best voice acting: Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu, ReLIFE, Bungou Stray Dogs
Best OP music: Flip Flappers, Dimension W, Shakunetsu no Takkyuu Musume
Best ED music: Koutetsujou no Kabaneri, Sangatsu no Lion(S1ED1&3), Flip Flappers
*Best character songs: Dream Festival, Magic-Kyun Renaissance

Writing-Related and Directorial Characteristics
Best direction: Sangatsu no Lion, Prince of Stride, Shakunetsu no Takkyuu Musume
Best writing: Flip Flappers, Sangatsu no Lion, ReLIFE
Best plot/story: Reikenzan, ReLIFE, Orange
Best script: Sangatsu no Lion, Tanaka-kun wa Itsumo Kedaruge, Drifters
Most creative: Flip Flappers, Koukaku no Pandora, Sakamoto Desu ga
Best character development: Sangatsu no Lion, Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu, ReLIFE 
Best character interaction/chemistry: Tanaka-kun wa Itsumo Kedaruge, Koukaku no Pandora, Kono Bijutsubu ni wa Mondai ga Aru
Best setting: Flip Flappers, Koutetsujou no Kabaneri, High School Fleet
Best atmosphere: Flip Flappers, Amanchu, Planetarian
Best world building: Tenkyou no Alderamin, Drifters
Most wasted potential: Udon no Kuni no Kiniro Kemari, Norn9, High School Fleet

Viewer-Experience and Genre-Specific Characteristics
Most likable cast: ReLIFE, Dream Festival, Shuumatsu no Izetta
Best humour: Sakamoto Desu ga, Tanaka-kun wa Itsumo Kedaruge
Most fun: Shakunetsu no Takkyuu Musume, Koukaku no Pandora
Most emotional: Sangatsu no Lion, ReLIFE
Most suspenseful: Joker Game, ReLIFE
Most exciting: Prince of Stride, Shakunetsu no Takkyuu Musume
Most romantic: Amanchu, Norn9
Most relaxing/comfy: Amanchu, Amaama to Inazuma 
Most cute: Udon no Kuni no Kiniro Kemari, Sansha Sanyou 
Most wholesome: Shounen Maid, Udon no Kuni no Kiniro Kemari
Best 'page-turner': ReLIFE, Bungou Stray Dogs
Best escapism: Hai to Gensou no Grimgar, Tenkyou no Alderamin
Best human contact simulator: ReLIFE, Sangatsu no Lion 
Best rewatch value: Flip Flappers, Yuri on Ice, Hai to Gensou no Grimgar

Reputational Characteristics
Most underrated: Flip Flappers, Prince of Stride, Koukaku no Pandora
Most underwatched: Shakunetsu no Takkyuu Musume, Koukaku no Pandora, Flip Flappers


Finally, here is a list of all titles considered in this analysis that I rated at least 6/10. Respective overall scores for each title are indicated in brackets (/10).
List of anime rated ≥6/10: Flip Flappers(10), Sangatsu no Lion(10), Prince of Stride(9), Amanchu(8), Hai to Gensou no Grimgar(8), Koukaku no Pandora(8), ReLIFE(8), Sakamoto Desu ga(8), Shakunetsu no Takkyuu Musume(8), Tanaka-kun wa Itsumo Kedaruge(8), Dream Festival(7), Drifters(7), Hina Logi(7), Kono Bijutsubu ni wa Mondai ga Aru(7), Kuma Miko(7), Norn9(7), Orange(7), Reikenzan(7 [S1=6, S2=8]), Sansha Sanyou(7), Shounen Maid(7), Shuumatsu no Izetta(7), Tenkyou no Alderamin(7), Udon no Kuni no Kiniro Kemari(7), Yuri on Ice(7), Bungou Stray Dogs(6.8 [S1-S3=7, movie=5]), Bubuki Buranki(6), Joker Game(6), Long Riders(6), Magic-Kyun Renaissance(6), Netoge no Yome wa Onnanoko ja Nai(6)


Total number of anime viewed for this analysis: 104 (including dropped series, NOT including shorts or movies, NOT counting donghua, NOT counting sequels – ex. all of Bungou Stray Dogs is counted as 1 anime total)
Among those 104 viewed anime, 58 were dropped (not watched to completion, likely due to their low quality from my point of view). Therefore my completion rate was 44.2% (46 of 104). My average score (/10) among completed anime was 6.39. Dropped anime were not considered as candidates in any category. I should mention that although my drop probability is mainly a function of enjoyment, I will sometimes complete disliked shows for idiosyncratic reasons, such as curiosity or cultural interest. For this reason, my completion rate and average score are somewhat arbitrary. Furthermore, a year having a lot of bad shows doesn't diminish the artistic value of its best works.
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>> No. 35785 [Edit]
>>35784
I did not evaluate the shorts as rigorously as other anime. Nevertheless, here is the list of shorts that I rated at least 6/10 (specific rating in brackets): Shelter(10), Honobono Log(8), Kanojo to Kanojo no Neko(8), Omoi no Kakera(8), Sekkou Boys(6), Sushi Police(6), Tabi Machi Late Show(6) 

For various reasons, I tend to enjoy movies less than the average person. However, I am still providing a list of my favoured 2016 movies, but please be mindful of my lack of enthusiasm for movies in general. For this list, only movies which are not sequels and not associated with TV anime are considered (ex. Initial D Movie - Legend 3 is NOT a candidate). The list of movies that I rated at least 6/10 (specific rating in brackets): Da Yu Hai Tang(6), Glass no Hana to Kowasu Sekai(6)


To more thoroughly identify and map out the meritorious attributes of 2016 anime, I have also completed a survey for ‘honourable mentions.’ This survey follows the same format as the sections above, except that there are no winners included here – only titles which merit recognition in the specified categories but didn’t make it into the awards already provided above.

Honourable mentions for each genre listed below.
Action: Bungou Stray Dogs 
Adventure:
Comedy: Kuma Miko, Kono Bijutsubu ni wa Mondai ga Aru, Netoge no Yome wa Onnanoko ja Nai
Drama: ReLIFE 
Fantasy: Hai to Gensou no Grimgar 
Historical:
Military: High School Fleet
Music:
Mystery/Psychological:
Romance: Orange, Magic-Kyun Renaissance
Sci-Fi: Planetarian, Dimension W 
Shoujo ai: Shuumatsu no Izetta, Koukaku no Pandora, Hina Logi
Shounen ai:
Slice of Life: Amanchu, Sangatsu no Lion, Sansha Sanyou, Hina Logi, Amaama to Inazuma, New Game 
Sports: Long Riders, Yuri on Ice
Supernatural/Magic: Mahou Shoujo Ikusei Keikaku 

Visual Characteristics (Honourable Mentions)
Art style: Sangatsu no Lion, Magic-Kyun Renaissance
Animation: Yuri on Ice, Sansha Sanyou 
Cinematography: Prince of Stride, Flip Flappers, Amanchu, Koutetsujou no Kabaneri, Bubuki Buranki
Character designs: Flip Flappers, Shuumatsu no Izetta, Sangatsu no Lion, Bungou Stray Dogs, Prince of Stride, Tanaka-kun wa Itsumo Kedaruge
Outfits: Mahou Shoujo Ikusei Keikaku, Hina Logi, Magic-kyun Rennaissance

Audio Characteristics (Honourable Mentions)
*Soundtrack: Koutetsujou no Kabaneri, Bubuki Buranki, Drifters, Koukaku no Pandora, Shuumatsu no Izetta, Tenkyou no Alderamin, Dream Festival, Amanchu, Bungou Stray Dogs, Tanaka-kun wa Itsumo Kedaruge
Voice acting: Hai to Gensou no Grimgar, Dream Festival, Bubuki Buranki, Sansha Sanyou, Kuma Miko, Hina Logi, High School Fleet
OP music: Udon no Kuni no Kiniro Kemari, Sangatsu no Lion(S1OP1&2, S2OP1), Bungou Stray Dogs(S1,S2&S3), Dream Festival(S1&S2), High School Fleet, Bubuki Buranki(S1), Prince of Stride, Norn9, Re Zero(S1&S2), Long Riders, Tenkyou no Alderamin, Reikenzan(S1&S2), Mahou Shoujo Ikusei Keikaku, Magic-Kyun Renaissance, Kiznaiver, Yuri on Ice, Amanchu(S1), Netoge no Yome wa Onnanoko ja Nai, Shounen Maid, Idol Memories, New Game(S1&S2)
ED music: Drifters, Dimension W, Bubuki Buranki(S1), Bungou Stray Dogs(S1,S2&S3), Prince of Stride, Tenkyou no Alderamin, Norn9, Dream Festival(S1), Reikenzan(S1&S2), Planetarian, Re Zero(S1&S2), Udon no Kuni no Kiniro Kemari, ReLIFE(ED1&3), Idol Memories, Yuri on Ice, Magic-Kyun Renaissance, New Game(S1&S2), Hina Logi, Amanchu(S1), Amaama to Inazuma
*Character songs: New Game, Mahou Shoujo Ikusei Keikaku, Prince of Stride, Norn9(Nagi Yanagi), Shakunetsu no Takkyuu Musume

Writing-Related and Directorial Characteristics (Honourable Mentions)
Direction: Tanaka-kun wa Itsumo Kedaruge, Kono Bijutsubu ni wa Mondai ga Aru, Dream Festival, Hai to Gensou no Grimgar, Amanchu
Writing: Shounen Maid, Amanchu, Udon no Kuni no Kiniro Kemari, Tanaka-kun wa Itsumo Kedaruge
Plot/story: Drifters, Re Zero 
Script: ReLIFE, Amanchu, Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu, Kuma Miko, Planetarian, Netoge no Yome wa Onnanoko ja Nai
Creative: Bungou Stray Dogs, Bubuki Buranki, Norn9, Kuma Miko, Shuumatsu no Izetta, Planetarian 
Character development: Dream Festival, Bungou Stray Dogs 
Character interaction/chemistry: ReLIFE, Shuumatsu no Izetta
Setting: Norn9, Amanchu, Magic-Kyun Renaissance, Shuumatsu no Izetta, Bubuki Buranki 
Atmosphere: Bungou Stray Dogs 
World building:
Wasted potential: Orange, Kiznaiver, Koutetsujou no Kabaneri, Shuumatsu no Izetta, Drifters, Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu, Dimension W, Bakuon, Anne Happy, Girlish Number

Viewer-Experience and Genre-Specific Characteristics (Honourable Mentions)
Likable cast: Shounen Maid, Bungou Stray Dogs, Prince of Stride, Bubuki Buranki 
Humour: Kuma Miko, Kono Bijutsubu ni wa Mondai ga Aru, Netoge no Yome wa Onnanoko ja Nai
Fun: Netoge no Yome wa Onnanoko ja Nai, Kono Bijutsubu ni wa Mondai ga Aru, Bubuki Buranki, High School Fleet, Yuri on Ice, Time Travel Shoujo
Emotional: Udon no Kuni no Kiniro Kemari, Hai to Gensou no Grimgar
Suspenseful: Re Zero, Bungou Stray Dogs
Exciting:
Romantic: ReLIFE, Shuumatsu no Izetta 
Relaxing/comfy:
Cute: Hina Logi, High School Fleet, Kuma Miko 
Wholesome: Amanchu, Amaama to Inazuma, Long Riders 
'Page-turner': Mahou Shoujo Ikusei Keikaku, Re Zero
Escapism: Long Riders, Norn9, Re Zero, Planetarian
Human contact simulator: Long Riders, Udon no Kuni no Kiniro Kemari, Girlish Number, New Game, Netoge no Yome wa Onnanoko ja Nai
Rewatch value: Prince of Stride, Amanchu, Shakunetsu no Takkyuu Musume, Norn9, Long Riders 

Reputational Characteristics (Honourable Mentions)
Underrated: Sangatsu no Lion, Shakunetsu no Takkyuu Musume, Amanchu, Kuma Miko, Norn9
Underwatched: Hina Logi, Amanchu, Dream Festival


>but what about my favourite anime?? 
I'll answer questions ITT and I invite feedback from you. I'm happy to hear suggestions and criticisms towards both my methodology and personal tastes. Feel free to respond with your own answers to my categories. Comments regarding the formatting and design of this analysis are also welcome. If anything is unclear or poorly explained then please don’t hesitate to ask me to clarify.

I watched more 2016 anime than are actually named above. Unsurprisingly, the best shows excel in multiple categories and so the results are dominated by a small subset of the total considered sample size. I'm not particularly fond of action as anything more than a side dish at most, so action/shounen/mecha series are possibly undersampled or underappreciated in this analysis. The same applies for ecchi and harem series. I also tend to be less fond of sports, comedy, and psychological series relative to the average person, so anime of these genres may also be underappreciated. 
>> No. 35786 [Edit]
>>35785
Takeaway thoughts on 2016: 
Give shows the benefit of the doubt even if you think you can judge things before watching. I was pleasantly surprised by some shows, and also found that many things did not match their descriptions. 2016 was a pretty strong year for female-target-audience stuff as well. As for the best anime of the year, both Flip Flappers and Sangatsu no Lion are deserving of the award, but for different reasons. Ultimately it depends on which aspects (see categories listed above) you value more. Similarly, whether or not someone considers 2016 a good year for anime will depend on their genre preferences. My thoughts on this are already summarized in the strongest and weakest genres categories, and I think that comparing those answers with the seasonal and genre-specific results is fairly self-explanatory. 

Among the common staple genres, I was somewhat disappointed by slice of life. Despite the large number of works and my affection for the genre, only a few slice-of-life anime were particularly noteworthy or even merited any recognition at all. Fantasy was similarly disappointing. Admittedly, fantasy is a more subjective genre, but regardless I found creativity in this realm to be lacking. There wasn't any show that used fantasy elements in a notably unique or compelling way. Most 2016 fantasy shows didn't bring much to the table beyond the classic cookie-cutter fantasy setting we've all seen countless times before. I've named Re Zero and Drifters as the best in the fantasy genre only due to lack of better options. Drifters' anachronistic spin on things is at least somewhat creative, although otherwise it is a fairly typical dark fantasy story. These observations aside, I think 2016 had strong representation across different genres. Most common genres had at least one above-average title, which is not something I expected when I began this investigation; this is another indication of the strong performance of 2016 anime as a whole. 

Analyzing things by season is somewhat arbitrary in my view, but this is how anime discussions are often framed so I'll offer some brief commentary here (within the context of the already outlined constraints of this entire analysis). The Fall season was by far the strongest of 2016, followed by Winter. If I had to pick the weakest season, it would be Spring. 

From my perspective, 2016 was a great year for anime overall. I think this is best demonstrated by there being 10 shows that I rated at least 8/10. Another metric to consider would be my average rating among my top-5 anime-of-the-year candidates, which is 9. 2016 was also a surprising year for me in that the distribution of scores did not reflect my usual genre preferences. In fact some of my top shows came from genres that I am typically less fond of, such as sports and comedy. When I peruse the catalogue of shows that aired in 2015 and 2017, the year 2016 looks like a comparatively better year for anime overall. Of course I can't say that with certainty because I have not evaluated those years as thoroughly as 2016, and a more exhaustive analysis of those years could lead to the unexpected discovery of anime that I value highly. I look forward to making more-robust comparisons between years. 

Some numerical metrics are provided below in the following format.
[Time period]: [# of shows rated ≥8], [average score of the top-5 shows]
Entire year: 10, 9.0
Winter season: 3, 7.8
Spring season: 2, 7.4
Summer season: 2, 7.4
Fall season: 3, 8.4


A few other assorted footnotes:

I did try to watch 2016 donghua as well, but many of them do not have any subtitles available. The donghua that I did find subtitles for were typically unremarkable at best, so I doubt I'm missing out on much. The only donghua I did not drop was Nuwa Chengzhang Riji (although I was forced to stop watching due to subtitles not being released). 

If you're wondering about why I included Hina Logi, it's a spinoff of Luck & Logic (2016) so I decided to include it in this analysis even though it aired in 2017. I treated it as a separate series from Luck & Logic because they were practically entirely different anime. 

*The results for the soundtracks and character songs are only preliminary because I'm still waiting to get a hold of some content. So the titles listed for these categories are not final. I will update this post with my final judgments for these categories. This caveat is more relevant to the character songs as obviously I was able to hear all the soundtracks while viewing. Even so, I'd like to sit down and formally evaluate each of the soundtracks among all the considered titles. 
[Franchise music not yet formally evaluated: Hina Logi, Re Zero, Bungou Stray Dogs, Joker Game, High School Fleet, Orange, Amaama to Inazuma, Amanchu, Yuri on Ice, Girlish Number, Long Riders]

At the time of writing (July 2021), I have not yet seen the following sequels: Re Zero season 2

This evaluation was last updated on: July 6th 2021
>> No. 35787 [Edit]
Do you have the tabular data for all the months? It's easier to parse the tables than the text.
>> No. 35788 [Edit]
>>35784
>Flip Flappers 10/10
>Best writing: Flip Flappers
Okay, I'm gonna have to stop you right there. Just kidding. I do disagree though.
>>34973
>> No. 35789 [Edit]
>>35788
Ha, I fully agree on FliFla but disagree with the sansha sanyou which I'd maybe give a 4 since it breaks all of what I consider the cardinal rules of SoLs. Goes to show how subjective these ratings are, even fixing a given genre.
>> No. 35790 [Edit]
File 162566177771.png - (2.52MB , 1920x1080 , [Coalgirls]_High_School_Fleet_Movie_(1920x1080_Blu.png )
35790
OP here. I realize that the formatting of this is not ideal, but I am limited by the imageboard platform. If the lists are difficult to read then pasting them into a word processor and enlarging the font and line spacing should make it easier.

For people who don't want to read my wall of text, you can just skim the award lists and/or refer to the table I've attached. If there are any titles you're particularly interested in, you can just ctrl+f the page.

This is my first time doing a comprehensive annual review like this, so I am certainly open to suggestions and feedback, both in terms of methodology and presentation, in addition to the actual results themselves.

>>35787
>Do you have the tabular data for all the months? It's easier to parse the tables than the text.
Did you mean by season instead of "months"?
I thought about putting everything into tables, but I would like this post to be easily discoverable in an archive, so putting everything in text makes more sense in that respect. I'd also prefer that people at least read the first few paragraphs of my post, since there is some important context provided there.

Can you describe what you'd like to see in tables?
>> No. 35791 [Edit]
File 162566461195.png - (2.66MB , 1920x1080 , [Coalgirls]_High_School_Fleet_Movie_(1920x1080_Blu.png )
35791
>>35788
>Flip Flappers 10/10
>Best writing: Flip Flappers
>Okay, I'm gonna have to stop you right there. Just kidding. I do disagree though.

Haha, I knew I would get pushback for this, especially the writing award lol. In defense of this, I've uploaded an analysis of Flip Flappers that was written a while back:
http://tohno-chan.com/test/res/891.html
(on /test/ because I can't upload PDF on this board)
I don't agree with everything in that document, but I think it illustrates the level of depth and detail involved in the writing. I don't know anyone involved in the creation of that document, but it was publicly available so I'm assuming they're okay with me sharing it.

>>35789
>Ha, I fully agree on FliFla but disagree with the sansha sanyou which I'd maybe give a 4 since it breaks all of what I consider the cardinal rules of SoLs. Goes to show how subjective these ratings are, even fixing a given genre.

Of all the 2016 anime I watched, Sansha Sanyou was one of the ones I watched furthest in the past. It was during a time in my life when I was under a lot of stress too, so maybe I was unusually receptive to it. So, I'm willing to concede it's possible that I slightly misjudged it. That said, I remember it being cute as hell, having good voice acting, nice character animation, and no major flaws. What did you dislike about it?

I'm interested to hear what your SoL cardinal rules are!
>> No. 35792 [Edit]
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35792
Have you watched Nobunaga no Shinobi and Thunderbolt Fantasy? Both aired in 2016, a weak year overall, but those two made it worth it.
>> No. 35793 [Edit]
>>35791
The PDF file is moved to >>/ddl/555
>> No. 35794 [Edit]
File 162566597488.png - (2.56MB , 1920x1080 , [Coalgirls]_High_School_Fleet_Movie_(1920x1080_Blu.png )
35794
>Have you watched Nobunaga no Shinobi and Thunderbolt Fantasy? Both aired in 2016, a weak year overall, but those two made it worth it.
I watched 7 episodes of Nobunaga no Shinobi before dropping it. I tend not to enjoy shorts much.
Thunderbolt Fantasy... that rings a bell. Was that a donghua?

>>35793
thanks!
>> No. 35796 [Edit]
>>35794
No, it was puppets created by Urobchi. Not exactly anime but so damn good it deserves to be included. If you have any interest in the Sengoku era Nobunaga no Shinobi was great, I'm not particularly into shorts but sometimes good shows get ignored because they are shorts, this was one of them.
>> No. 35797 [Edit]
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35797
>>35791
>The fact that the studio took the risk of creating their own content instead of making easier money means that
So the very first few paragraphs praise the anime for something that has nothing to do with its actual quality, and implies that it being anime original inherently gives it an advantage over adaptations which "only reproduce" a story.

>Flip Flappers might not be perfect, but it's a masterpiece of symbolism.
The main point though, is that Flip Flappers has lots of symbolism. I don't believe symbolism, no matter how clever or referential to psychology/any other "learned" topic, makes writing good or gives it depth. Symbolism is icing, characters and plot are the cake.

>there are two groups displeased with the direction: one that grows tired of the episodic adventures and demands plot progression, and the other that wants it to forever remain episodic adventures
Neither of these were my main problem with Flip Flappers. I've enjoyed both episodic and plot driven anime. With episodic anime, it was always dependent on how entertaining/interesting I found the characters. Eva does the same balancing act of episodic and plot driven miles better.

>Sayuri
For example, I actually completely forgot this character even existed until being reminded just now.
>her main attribute is a goddamn flying saucer
It's funny that they say this about Yayaka when she was the character I found most interesting.
>Cocona develops
I did not perceive this development.

>Show, don’t tell ”is the golden rule of cinematography. It's something that good movies do : use the picture rather than words to communicate with the viewer. Everyone hates info dumps, right?
Next, using words to communicate is conflated with narration and info dumps. This is a false equivalence. Words can also mean conversation between characters, and that is integral to any complex story and something Flip Flappers lacks quality of. Flip Flappers relies a hell of a lot on info dumps via flashbacks towards the end too.

>Symbolism works in a quite similar manner, just one level deeper.it's an extension of the same idea-telling the story in a more complex and interesting way than just reading it out loud
Symbolism is a story aid. It's not one level deeper, it's one level lower. It's the icing. By this argument, listening to a Beethoven symphony is a replacement for reading a book.

>nail clippers function here as a low-key sexual symbol from the LGBT community (if you don’t know why, you have a lowerchance of having a happy girlfriend)
At this point, I stopped reading straight through and skipped around.

>FLFL is actually a honest-to-God yuri romance
No, it's not. Cocona and Papika aren't even good friends.
>demanding a kiss scene is a misunderstanding of the Japanese culture.
How about some fucking chemistry? Besides that, regular romances and shoujo also features plenty of kissing. It's weirder for there not to be any of that. It's not like Japanese people don't kiss in a romantic context. If they didn't want to put that in because it would offend the average person's sensibilities, Flip Flappers can't be called a very daring anime.
>This is again drawing from the staff information
There's a lot of parts where the director or some staff member's explanation is referenced. How ironic that this write up depends so much on the staff directly explaining what this or that is "supposed to mean" when before it was criticizing things being directly told to the audience?

>FLFL is the Space Dandy of Evangelion
Except I liked Eva's cake, so I see its symbolism as a nice addition to something that's already good.
>you can interpret it as a tale of a child of divorced parents
Except she barely interact with or has a relationship with her father, Dr.Salt, even after learning who he is. And he doesn't reach out to her on a personal level either. Cocona was so fucking boring it hurt.
>And if you don’t want to go that deep, you still have the wonderful technicolor adventure
Except I don't. I have a mediocre, watch once and forget about adventure.

To be honest, this "story" analysis kind of pisses me off because it contains a lot of attitudes I hate. I'm also not exactly a fan of psychology as a subject. Sorry if this response came across as harsh, I can't help but get ticked off by some of this stuff.
>> No. 35799 [Edit]
>>35797
Perhaps we should continue this discussion on the flifla thread on /an/ instead of here, but to me flip flappers isn't really a traditional show that's neatly self-contained. It is indeed all those intridcate details/symbolism that they've put in which makes this – as the doc calls it – a "rorsarch"-esque piece of artwork that you sit back, appreciate, and try to make sense of. Or in other words, it's a show that I strongly believe was designed for the viewer to engage with, pulling on loose ends to see how things unravel and where it ends up.

In that sense, flip flappers is a show with roughly three layers. You have the "core" bildungsroman about Cocona's development, which can itself be split into two sub-layers about her relationship with Papika – yuri included – and relationship with her mother. But this core is merely the subtrate over which the show explores the idea of perception and the nature of the mind, as perhaps most poignatly seen in the episode with Iroha. To me, this layer on top of the subtrate is in fact the "true" show, and the beauty of flip flappers comes from the way it interweaves all these three layers together, leaving the reader with the job of separating out the puzzle.

Now of course you could argue that a show which requires the viewer to make sense of it isn't a very good show, but as I mentioned I believe FliFla wasn't intended to be a traditional show, it was designed to be something the viewer has to sit down, actively think about, and rewatch pieces of. And for a show wholly centered around the notion of perception and the subjective nature of expiernece, should it really be any other way?

>>Cocona develops
>I did not perceive this development.
At the beginning Cocoa is a girl without identity and without independence. With the help of Papika and her explorations in pure illusion, she gains that self of identity and independence, while also maturing sexually (yuri).

>listening to a Beethoven symphony is a replacement for reading a book
You can't equate the two though, they're completely orthogonal. With flip flappers, the hidden meanings _are_ the primary thing you're listening for, and the core bildungsroman is just icing on the cake.

>No, it's not. Cocona and Papika aren't even good friends.
They point blank quote "dai-dai-daisuki" to each other. Of the valid criticisms you have, this is one I can't really see; one of the whole points of the show is that Cocona learns to appreciate Papika, and this _particular_ Papika (there was an entire episode exploring how Cocona views her relationship to Papika, of course through the lens of pure illusion). Her conclusion is that she loves all of Papiak, both as a friend and as a yuri partner. And if this isn't point-blank enough, at the end they both have wedding dresses.

Overall, many of your criticisms of the core story are valid, but to me that's not the point of the story. FliFla fundamentally isn't a show about Ccona and Papika, it's a show about refacotred perception and an exploration of the psyche. Papika/Cocona and yuri subplots are just icing on the cake here.
>> No. 35800 [Edit]
>>35791
>cute as hell, having good voice acting, nice character animation, and no major flaws. What did you dislike about it?
It's been some time since I watched it as well, but as I recall my main gripe was that the characters felt more like props for comedic gags than fully-fleshed characters in their own right – you had the rich girl (I apologize for not remembering anyone's name) whose every scene was an opportunity to make some ojou-sama gag with a butler, and that girl who ate a lot. In fact the only thing I remember from the show was that they spent a lot of time eating.

It's probably a fine show for passing the time idly, but it doesn't have what I look for in an SoL which are organic character interactions and friendships that radiate a tangible warmth, as manifested through those interactions. (Not very objective criteria, but at a high level I've found that the best SoLs will pay attention to subtle details like body language that help with this.)

I think I only watched halfway through though, and that too kind of half-heartedly after the first three episodes didn't pique my interest so it's quite possible that I'm mischaracterizing the show. If that's the case please let me know so I can re-add this to my watch this. On the other hand I thought Anne Happy (which you characterized as "wasted potential") was actually great. I recall the first two episodes were kind of mediocre, but soon after that it picks up quite nicely and very quickly surpassed my initial expectations.
>> No. 35805 [Edit]
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>>35796
>No, it was puppets created by Urobchi. Not exactly anime but so damn good it deserves to be included.
OH, okay I remember this now. Yeah I decided against including that in this analysis because it's not really anime. Maybe I should check it out though.


>>35797
>To be honest, this "story" analysis kind of pisses me off because it contains a lot of attitudes I hate. I'm also not exactly a fan of psychology as a subject. Sorry if this response came across as harsh, I can't help but get ticked off by some of this stuff.
Like I said, I didn't write it and I don't agree with everything in it. I just posted it to illustrate the depth and complexity involved in the writing of Flip Flappers. Obviously much of it is subjective and open to interpretation.

>The main point though, is that Flip Flappers has lots of symbolism. I don't believe symbolism, no matter how clever or referential to psychology/any other "learned" topic, makes writing good or gives it depth. Symbolism is icing, characters and plot are the cake.
I have an award category specifically for plot. I have an award category specifically for character development. I value these things too and I've tried to address them in my analysis. The best writing award was supposed to be a broader field that encompasses things like themes and symbolism, in addition to less-abstract stuff like plot. I awarded Sangatsu no Lion the second-best writing as well as the best character development, so it's not like I don't care about the components of your 'cake' (a similar statement could be made for ReLIFE). The best writing award is just a broader sum-of-the-parts thing.

Anyway, for people who value plot and character development (myself included), I have categories for both of those things and hopefully they will be helpful or interesting to you.

>No, it's not. Cocona and Papika aren't even good friends.
Did we watch the same anime? It clearly has romantic and sexual undertones. Romantic/sexual awakening is one of the more-obvious themes of the show.

>Besides that, regular romances and shoujo also features plenty of kissing. It's weirder for there not to be any of that.
I'd wager I'm not the only person who disagrees with this. In any case this is kind of a petty criticism; personally I'm indifferent to whether or not there is kissing.

>There's a lot of parts where the director or some staff member's explanation is referenced. How ironic that this write up depends so much on the staff directly explaining what this or that is "supposed to mean" when before it was criticizing things being directly told to the audience?
It's a subjective show open to interpretation and deconstruction. That's part of what makes it so entertaining.

>you can interpret it as a tale of a child of divorced parents
>Except she barely interact with or has a relationship with her father, Dr.Salt, even after learning who he is. And he doesn't reach out to her on a personal level either.
I don't see how this refutes that interpretation.


I found the writing of Flip Flappers to be very thoughtful and intricate (certainly moreso than any other 2016 candidate). I think the fact that we're even having this conversation demonstrates that.


>>35799
Very well said. I agree with you.
I'm glad you're here to defend Flip Flappers because honestly I don't have the desire or mental energy to debate every single tiny detail of the show.


>>35800
>It's been some time since I watched it as well, but as I recall my main gripe was that the characters felt more like props for comedic gags than fully-fleshed characters in their own right – you had the rich girl (I apologize for not remembering anyone's name) whose every scene was an opportunity to make some ojou-sama gag with a butler, and that girl who ate a lot. In fact the only thing I remember from the show was that they spent a lot of time eating.
There wasn't much character development, but IMO Sansha Sanyou wasn't a show that needed character development to be enjoyable. For me it was just a cute fluffy show to relax to and chuckle sometimes. I exclusively used it as something to shut my brain off with after a long day, and for that purpose it was good.

>it doesn't have what I look for in an SoL which are organic character interactions and friendships that radiate a tangible warmth, as manifested through those interactions. (Not very objective criteria, but at a high level I've found that the best SoLs will pay attention to subtle details like body language that help with this.)
I value and appreciate these things as well. You might have noticed that my top slice-of-life anime are Udon no Kuni and Shounen Maid, whereas Sansha Sanyou is a third-place honourable mention in that genre category.

>I think I only watched halfway through though, and that too kind of half-heartedly after the first three episodes didn't pique my interest so it's quite possible that I'm mischaracterizing the show. If that's the case please let me know so I can re-add this to my watch this.
If you didn't like the first few episodes then you're unlikely to enjoy the rest. The character of the show is fairly consistent across episodes.

>On the other hand I thought Anne Happy (which you characterized as "wasted potential") was actually great. I recall the first two episodes were kind of mediocre, but soon after that it picks up quite nicely and very quickly surpassed my initial expectations.
The premise of Anne Happy was great (hence the wasted potential), but IMO it was filled with unfunny comedy and the characters were weak (annoying, unlikable, bland, one-note, etc...). I rated it 5/10 and came very close to dropping it.
>> No. 35806 [Edit]
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35806
>>35805
>Did we watch the same anime?
I elaborated on that here. >>35802
My issue was the way the friendship was written. I meant good as in quality.
>I have an award category specifically for plot
Why not have a category specifically for thematics then?

>I don't see how this refutes that interpretation.
If it was about a child of divorce, you'd think it would explore her thoughts and perception of both parents. Even the mother stuff felt cold and detached from the actual character(who in this case was terminally bland on all fronts), like flifla was trying to be about something while not actually being about it.

>this is kind of a petty criticism
Petty or not, I don't think it's a "misunderstanding of Japanese culture". I've demonstrated they have a conception of women kissing. As a romance, I didn't buy it, symbolism or not. I wouldn't call it a well written romance at least. Yeah, that's not the "main focus", but I think having so many different focuses in only 13 episodes, that most of them can't be properly developed, is also a symptom of poor writing/planning. There's been much better "side-romances" in the past. A good romance without good characters is also basically impossible.

>the fact that we're even having this conversation demonstrates that.
I think that has more to do with large differences in what we see as "good" writing.

Post edited on 8th Jul 2021, 8:48am
>> No. 35807 [Edit]
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35807
>>35806
If the writing staff were geniuses who knew exactly what they were doing and not winging it, explain this part. The post credits scene to episode 1 that never, ever comes up again. What is the symbolism behind this? I don't think the doc addresses it either.
>> No. 35808 [Edit]
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35808
>>35807

>As a romance, I didn't buy it, symbolism or not. I wouldn't call it a well written romance at least
I think this is fundamentally the root of the disconnect. If you're uninterested in the characters, then rest of the show isn't going to interest you, let alone make you interested enough to start analyzing it. And it is indeed intended to be a romance, as seen from the very lyrics of the OP. This is probably the most subjective part though (just as SoL enjoyment is very subjective), so there's definitely no absolute truth here and certainly no arguments to be made either way. But for me at least the the chemistry between the characters were great: Papika and Cocona complement each other perfectly (which is also accordingly represented symbolically).

>What is the symbolism behind this? I don't think the doc addresses it either
Great question! That scene happens in the "real world" and not in pure illusion so I think its purpose is less symbolic and more explanatory. I think its main purpose is just introducing the other arc of the story which is that the fragment Cocona found is valuable, and that there are other people also interested in these fragments. As for why it doesn't come up again, a very good question I don't have an answer to. There are lots of little things which actually seem to be just mentioned in passing and don't really seem to have a role, most noticeable of which is the character of Nyunyu whose only purpose is to pull the gun. There are some possible thoughts here, but I guess it's probably not going to be very satisfying. The trite answer is that the fact that they didn't mention it again means that it's de facto not an important, and so it shouldn't matter either way. Another thought for Nyunyu in particular is that she fires Chekov's gun (lookup the definition here if this sentence doesn't make sense). A third explanation is that she's a manifestation of the Hyperart Thomasson, and this isn't just hypothetical since the show contains the most classic example – the door to nowhere. In fact the doc has a section on Hyperart Thomasson.

Speaking of which, I have to amend my statement that " roughly three layers" in >>35799 since I forgot about the obvious one involving the plot between flipflap org and the kkk guy's org. So make that four layers.

>who knew exactly what they were doing and not winging it
Oh they were definitely not winging it, and even if you're not a fan of the show I think that saying such is quite insulting to the directors and staff. Read the flipflappers art book and interview with directors to see how much care was put into this. This isn't a case of "the curtains were fucking blue," these details were intentionally put in and meant to be interpreted.

Again, I emphasize that flip flappers is fundamentally a show that is meant to be interpreted and chewed on to derive maximum enjoyment out of, and is quite unlike any other show I've seen. I think the best comparison would actually be to Finnegans Wake, and that metaphor holds on many levels. If you're watching it _only_ for the literal subplots, you're likely to be left with a confusing tangled mess of a story. That confusion is intended to be an invitation for you to pull on one thread and see how things unravel, but this is something that will take several hours to weeks of reading through others' analyses, pondering on your own, and rewatching pieces trying to fit everything together like a puzzle. It's definitely not something that will have broad appeal, and if you're just looking for a show to pass the weekend then this isn't really the show for that. Similarly if you have bad memories from English class then you're unlikely to enjoy this.

On the other hand, if you like digging and seeing how deep rabbit holes go, this is the show for you. And what I like in particular about Flip Flappers is that it actively encourages and rewards you for pulling on those threads. Moreover, the show doesn't really shove the symbolism blatantly down your face: it sits there hidden in plain sight, allowing you to discover it when you're ready without disrupting enjoyment of the show. It's a stark difference to the memories of English class where you're forced to analyze some novel about some boring old guy you don't care about; the analysis unfolds naturally here, and each detail you pull out enhances your appreciation of the characters, their friendship/love, and the show. Overall, to me at least this show is a once-in-a-lifetime sort of special thing, and stumbling upon it truly was a stroke of "Serendipity."
>> No. 35809 [Edit]
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>>35808
>If you're uninterested in the characters, then rest of the show isn't going to interest you
Well yeah. That's why I don't think you can disconnect "best characters" from "best writing". Getting me interested in the characters and or plot is how I measure good writing. That's the point of dialogue and everything else. It's not an essay.
>There are lots of little things which actually seem to be just mentioned in passing and don't really seem to have a role, most noticeable of which is the character of Nyunyu
I actually completely forgot about Nyunyu. Like totally wiped from my memory. I would argue mentioning lots of little things with no role is a bad writing practice, especially for something with so little time to tell its story.

>saying such is quite insulting to the directors and staff
Well, you said you don't know why they put that scene in there, even though you read the art book and watched interviews. I think the answer is simply they planned on doing something, realized they didn't have enough time, and cut it. So they didn't wing it, but their plan didn't work out exactly and they made mistakes. Sometimes the most simple answer is the correct one.
>Finnegans Wake
From what I know, that book is praised solely as an intellectual exercise, not as a story. I think I could do something very similar. Write a comic or book, whip out a thesaurus, stuff as many references and symbols in as humanely possible, paying very little attention to anything else like the characters and plot, and then call it the best written thing ever. I don't find that impressive or see value in it.

>just looking for a show to pass the weekend
This is somewhat dismissive of my perspective. I'm not looking for mindless entertainment to "pass time", and I don't hate thinking about fiction. I judge things primarily based on how they make me feel, not how "deep" they are. Ideally, a story's depth works with the other components, not competes with or dominates them. Monster is a good example of themes adding to the enjoyment of the story.
>without disrupting enjoyment of the show
Well it subtracted from my enjoyment. If they had made a more "conventional" story, I probably would have enjoyed it more. In fact, all they would have to do to is add a scene where Cocona makes out with Papika and I would like it a lot more.

>some novel about some boring old guy you don't care about
She's not an old guy, but as I've said many times, Cocona was exceedingly boring to me, so I had no interest in what her secret psyche was, not even from a "this is a really abstract representation of how humans think in general" way. I'd rather look at how humans think in concrete terms myself.
>Overall, to me at least this show is a once-in-a-lifetime sort of special thing
I'm not trying to take away from your enjoyment. Just explaining why I don't think it was well-written in an "objective" sense. I liked Redo of Hero for its sheer entertainment value, but I know its writing isn't good. People have debated plenty about if it's satire, or what it has to say about society and women if anything. I don't think either way it makes a difference on the writing quality.

Post edited on 8th Jul 2021, 1:06pm
>> No. 35810 [Edit]
>>35809
> That's why I don't think you can disconnect "best characters" from "best writing". Getting me interested in the characters and or plot
Sure I agree, but whether you like a given set of characters is subjective isn't it? It's why I hate the characterization of a show as "best" because your value function is inherently personal. (In fact what's often more illuminating than ranking is seeing how a show relates to other shows. I've often wished there were some sort of topological map of anime).

>Write a comic or book, whip out a thesaurus, stuff as many references and symbols in as humanely possible, paying very little attention to anything else like the characters and plot, and then call it the best written thing ever
But that's _not_ what Finnegan's Wake is! The thing about symbolism and references is that they have to work together cohesively, and I think you'll find that doing this is a non-trivial task. In fact, even for just naively jamming in references you'd have to spend time familiarizing yourself with the existing canon of literature, and then spend time picking out the reference and working it in. Moreover, every word has shades of nuance so you fundamentally can't just whip out a thesauras and substitute things willy-nilly without altering the cadence and flavor of your text.

Now I have not actually read Finnegan's Wake and it is indeed difficult to parse, but there are those who have devoted time to reading and understanding it who would likely strongly disagree with your characterization of it as "solely an intellectual exercise" as there is indeed substance behind that impenetrable wall of text. FlipFlappers is a lot more digestible, but likewise the references and symbolism aren't just random. In fact as I mentioned the parallel to finnegan's wake was not really on the incomprehensibility of the thing, but more about how it tells its story. Quoting from wikipedia

>This "new way" of telling a story in Finnegans Wake takes the form of a discontinuous dream-narrative, with abrupt changes to characters, character names, locations and plot details resulting in the absence of a discernible linear narrative, causing Herring to argue that the plot of Finnegans Wake "is unstable in that there is no one plot from beginning to end, but rather many recognizable stories and plot types with familiar and unfamiliar twists, told from varying perspectives."

Flip flappers is not as fluid – there we at least have definite characters – but parallels should be clear. The doc called this rorsarch-esque which I love.

Also quoting from wiki:

>the language in it is incredible. There's so many layers of puns and references to mythology and history. But it's the most realistic novel ever written. Which is exactly why it's so unreadable. He wrote that book the way that the human mind works. An intelligent, inquiring mind. And that's just the way consciousness is. It's not linear. It's just one thing piled on another. And all kinds of cross references. And he just takes that to an extreme. There's never been a book like it and I don't think there ever will be another book like it. And it's absolutely a monumental human achievement. But it's very hard to read.

Again parallels should be clear, emphasis on the way that notions of dream-like consciousness and the mind are inseparable Finnegan's Wake. I don't want to dig through director interviews but I strongly believe that directors/producers must have at least been aware of Joyce's work.

But still, there is an ironic element in that Joyce himself admitted he purposefully obscured things for no other purpose than making it inscrutable. So in that sense Finnegan's Wake is probably on that extreme where it's basically impossible to achieve any literal interpretation of it.

>Well it subtracted from my enjoyment. If they had made a more "conventional" story, I probably would have enjoyed it more
But being a "conventional" story is explicitly not the point! That's like saying if Finnegan's Wake was less dense then maybe people would like it better.
>In fact, all they would have to do to is add a scene where Cocona makes out with Papika and I would like it a lot more.
Forgive me, but the fact that you mention this makes me feel like you're still not understanding the point of the show. Sure purely in terms of local enjoyment I too would have enjoyed it, locally speaking, if they started making out and then Yayaka joined in. But doing so would have completely ruined the global enjoyment.

Or to put it more plainly, you have to consider what you want out of a show. Do you want warm, fuzzy feelings of watching cute girls doing cute things? FliFla has some of that but you're probably better off watching a kirara. Do you want a clear-cut story or defined themes? If so then FliFla is not that show. Much as I think is the case with Finnegan's Wake, for FliFla to work for you, you have to find enjoyment from pulling on those threads of inquiry and the value proposition of the show isn't any specific theme or "fuzzy feeling" but that aesthetic appreciation of looking at an intricate tapestry and how they all interact together. If you isolate any single piece, then that magic sort of fades – as you mentioned
>Cocona was exceedingly boring to me
yeah by herself Cocona is not a very exciting character, and she's not really meant to be since she's the foil for papika. It's their relationship you have to track over the course of the show.

>Just explaining why I don't think it was well-written in an "objective" sense.
But isn't that a subjective sense? I don't think it's possible to discuss works "objectively" because they necessarily have to be interpreted first. Although clearly there's at least some degree of objectivity since we share a common language and hence can probably agree on a literal meaning, but even "objecitvely" classifying something as nonsense seems non-trivial: at first glance Finnegan's Wake is incompherensible gibberish but there is meaning in there. Although this branches off into the philosophy side which I don't know much about...

Post edited on 8th Jul 2021, 2:31pm
>> No. 35811 [Edit]
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35811
>>35810
>you'd have to spend time familiarizing yourself with the existing canon of literature
Why? If the point is to make a puzzle people have to decipher, I can make that without being an english major. A puzzle is a puzzle. In fact, my ignorance might lead to something more novel. Have you heard of outsider art?
>there is indeed substance behind that impenetrable wall of text
Those wiki passages read like an english student gushing about something they like because it makes them feel smart. They also call it "the most normal", which implies underneath all its intentional obfuscation, the (potential) meaning isn't actually interesting. Feeling smart and patting yourself on the back is most of the enjoyment you can get out of a puzzle. It's not the substance, the physical components or form of the puzzle when solved, you enjoy, it's the satisfaction of deciphering its code.

>That's like saying if Finnegan's Wake was less dense then maybe people would like it better.
Maybe. If its substance behind the glorified purple prose was actually interesting. Apparently it's pretty boring.
>Flip flappers is not as fluid – there we at least have definite characters
Frankly, I would enjoy it more if it didn't also try to have a cohesive plot and was totally experiential and "fluid". Cat Soup did the extremely abstract, wacky, trippy visual roller coaster thing better. I knew not to focus on the plot there.

>But doing so would have completely ruined the global enjoyment.
How? It seems like you're implying making the romance expressed virtually entirely through symbolism elevates it. Because it's more up to interpretation and indirect, that makes it better. Better as a story or better as a puzzle? Puzzles do not make for good stories in my opinion. I like to think of anime, regardless of its specific methods, as something that tries to entertain by puppeteering the audience's emotions. Not by providing a puzzle, a totally different lane. Maybe if I knew what to expect, if my basic expectations as viewer weren't betrayed, I might have formed a higher opinion of it.
>she's the foil for papika
I mentioned in my review that one character having a personality and the other not having one isn't a good dynamic.

>But isn't that a subjective sense?
Well, this conversation started because I disagreed with OP's assessment. I can see we wont change each other's minds because even with the same language, conceptions of "good", how things should be, are different from person to person. Any criticism of a story what so ever can be hand waved with "that's the point". You might as well be saying something isn't supposed to be "good".

Post edited on 8th Jul 2021, 6:36pm
>> No. 35812 [Edit]
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35812
>>35808
>>35810
Again, very well said. I'm glad you're here to defend Flip Flappers. You're doing a better job of it than I could.

>Overall, to me at least this show is a once-in-a-lifetime sort of special thing, and stumbling upon it truly was a stroke of "Serendipity."
Yep, it really is something special. To me, Flip Flappers feels like such a sincere and authentic expression of art.


>>35806
>Why not have a category specifically for thematics then?
Not a bad idea but it might be difficult to isolate that kind of thing. I will consider adding this to the next annual analysis I do.

>>35809
>I judge things primarily based on how they make me feel, not how "deep" they are.
I just want to chime in on this point and say this: I also hugely value the emotional experience of the viewer, and I've tried to address this in my various award categories. Also, many of my top-scored 2016 anime are highly emotional.

I also want to repeat a quote from my analysis (>>35786):
>As for the best anime of the year, both Flip Flappers and Sangatsu no Lion are deserving of the award, but for different reasons. Ultimately it depends on which aspects (see categories listed above) you value more.

As you can infer from my award lists, if you value emotional experience and character development then Sangatsu no Lion is the superior anime for you.

The subjectivity of simple overall rankings and their dependence on one's own values and preferences is one of the main reasons why I created the more-specific award categories. This way people can go through the award categories and find titles that align with what they value in anime, instead of relying on highly subjective overall rankings or numerical scores. I'm trying to move beyond the unhelpful framework of just best in season/year and numerical scores.

So anyway, if you care about how an anime makes you feel (as I do) then I have many award categories that specifically cater to this. My hope is that they are at least mildly interesting or helpful to you or people with the same values as you.


>In fact, all they would have to do to is add a scene where Cocona makes out with Papika and I would like it a lot more.
Dude, seriously? This is a really silly talking point. The show already has pretty strong sexual undertones IMO, and they are implemented far more gracefully than your envisioned make-out scene.

>>35811
>It seems like you're implying making the romance expressed virtually entirely through symbolism elevates it.
It was far more elegant than your average make-out scene.
>> No. 35813 [Edit]
>>35812
>sexual undertones
The wording here reminded me of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLoRO87lu_8
Joking aside, this amount of "elegance" feels like beating around the bush.
>Sangatsu no Lion
Looks interesting.
>> No. 35814 [Edit]
>>35812
> I'm glad you're here to defend Flip Flappers
I don't think it's something that really needs defense per se (art is inherently subjective and in the eye of the beholder, after all); the discussion just gave me an opportunity to flesh out thoughts I've wanted to for some time.


>>35812
> You might as well be saying something isn't supposed to be "good".
I think that goes to the core of what art is, which is deep into the philosophy realm I don't know much about. But yes, I think criticism of shows reveals more about the mismatch between the value function of the viewer and the one optimized for by the show, than it does reveal something inherent about the show itself. Of course, even this indirect information can still be useful for determining what you ultimately care about: whether the show will work for you.

Or in other words for every flaw you can find in a show there's probably someone else who considers that flaw crucial to his enjoyment.
>> No. 35834 [Edit]
File 162713825167.png - (49.80KB , 274x799 , example of formatting.png )
35834
Thank you for providing this analysis. It's a breath of fresh air, too many people trot out the cliche that anime went to shit after [year the speaker got into anime]. If you did this whole analysis again for a different year, would you pick an adjacent year or one farther away?

I was a little surprised that you considered 2016 better than 2017. Perhaps I shouldn't be quick to judge, since I've seen far fewer 2016 anime than 2017, but to me 2017 had some pretty strong offerings: Made in Abyss, Kemono Friends, Youjo Senki, Shoujo Shuumatsu Ryokou, Little Witch Academia, Isekai Shokudou, Urara Meirochou, and Mahoutsukai no Yome for example. Though on second thought, eight is not many when you're comparing an entire year to another.

You call Fantasy and Mystery/Psychological the weakest genres but in >>35786 it is instead fantasy and slice of life that you talk about. Could you elaborate on why mystery/psychological was weak?

Regarding the presentation, using bbcode would have helped, and it's also much easier to read if you separate vertically rather than horizontally. (Picture related.) Don't be afraid to take up the vertical space. Well, that's questionable, but definitely use the bbcode so it's immediately obvious which text is and isn't anime titles. You can use more posts so you can separate the broad topics, e.g. a post for best by season + best in year (and the order of those should be swapped so you increase in granularity of the categories as your whole analysis proceeds), then a post for the genre awards, then for the characteristics awards, etc. From where the posts break up the text, I get the impression it was only post length limits that determined the splits.
Regarding the honourable mentions, as a reader I don't see much of a point in having that section. Without knowing why a specific anime got a mention, it becomes just a list of the anime that did not make the top three for whichever award you're listing it for. Perhaps you could restrict it to one anime per award and have a sentence or two explaining why that one is worth mentioning but not worth putting in the top three. Another approach is to put the anime first and talk about which awards it deserves an honourable mention for rather than the other way around.
The image would be better off shrunk to one half or third of its size.
>> No. 35835 [Edit]
File 16272629528.png - (2.59MB , 1920x1080 , [Coalgirls]_High_School_Fleet_Movie_(1920x1080_Blu.png )
35835
>>35834
Thanks for this helpful response and taking the time to read everything.

>If you did this whole analysis again for a different year, would you pick an adjacent year or one farther away?
I'm doing it again for 2017 right now, and plan to do it for 2018 after that. 2017 doesn't seem to have as many completion-worthy (for me) shows as 2016, so I should be able to get through it relatively quickly and post an analysis within a year from now. Hopefully life doesn't get in the way.

>I was a little surprised that you considered 2016 better than 2017. Perhaps I shouldn't be quick to judge, since I've seen far fewer 2016 anime than 2017, but to me 2017 had some pretty strong offerings: Made in Abyss, Kemono Friends, Youjo Senki, Shoujo Shuumatsu Ryokou, Little Witch Academia, Isekai Shokudou, Urara Meirochou, and Mahoutsukai no Yome for example. Though on second thought, eight is not many when you're comparing an entire year to another.
You're absolutely right that 2017 has some exceptional titles (I've already seen most of the ones you listed), but 2016 will be hard to beat in terms of the total volume of high-quality anime. I'd gladly be proven wrong though, and hopefully I will discover some more 2017 titles that I rate highly.

>You call Fantasy and Mystery/Psychological the weakest genres but in >>35786 it is instead fantasy and slice of life that you talk about. Could you elaborate on why mystery/psychological was weak?
Sure, I probably should have elaborated on this. Basically, for mystery/psychological there were very few shows that I liked which fit into the genre. Joker Game was pretty much the only title that had a significant mystery element to it, hence it's the top of the category. I needed a runner-up, and Bungou Stray Dogs seemed like the only reasonable option because it does sometimes have mystery aspects. The only other title I considered for that category was ReZero, but its mystery/psychological elements seemed to fade in their significance over the course of its runtime. The common 2016 winner for this genre for a lot of people is Boku dake ga Inai Machi (AKA Erased), but personally I did not find that show entertaining enough to finish it. Also, as I mentioned in my analysis, I'm less enthusiastic about mystery/psychological shows than the average person, so my own biases are definitely at play here. It's also worth noting that literally the only 2016 sequel I still haven't watched is ReZero season 2 (and the second movie -- waiting for a slow torrent), but I came very close to dropping the first season anyway so I doubt this is consequential.

>Regarding the presentation, using bbcode would have helped, and it's also much easier to read if you separate vertically rather than horizontally. (Picture related.) Don't be afraid to take up the vertical space. Well, that's questionable, but definitely use the bbcode so it's immediately obvious which text is and isn't anime titles. You can use more posts so you can separate the broad topics, e.g. a post for best by season + best in year (and the order of those should be swapped so you increase in granularity of the categories as your whole analysis proceeds), then a post for the genre awards, then for the characteristics awards, etc. From where the posts break up the text, I get the impression it was only post length limits that determined the splits.
Your point about vertical space is a good one. I guess I was just concerned that the longer the analysis is then the less likely it is that people will read it at all. Separating things into more posts would have also been a better strategy. Completely agree as well about swapping the order of the best-in-season and best-in-year awards.

It's becoming clearer to me that I should just make additional tables for the seasonal, genre, and characteristics awards. Like >>35787 said, things would be way more readable if I just put everything into tables.

>Regarding the honourable mentions, as a reader I don't see much of a point in having that section. Without knowing why a specific anime got a mention, it becomes just a list of the anime that did not make the top three for whichever award you're listing it for. Perhaps you could restrict it to one anime per award and have a sentence or two explaining why that one is worth mentioning but not worth putting in the top three. Another approach is to put the anime first and talk about which awards it deserves an honourable mention for rather than the other way around.
The honourable mentions part is basically just a supplementary recommendations section. I'm strongly considering moving it to the very end of the analysis, so it's just like a supplementary thing that people can look at only if they're interested. The main point of it is for a reader to be able to find more titles with characteristics that they find desirable. So for example, if somebody really cares about voice acting then they can just skim to the part where I gave honourable mentions for voice acting. I also think that some readers might be interested to know which other titles were competitive in an award category. I should probably just make it optional supplementary material though, or something like that.
>> No. 35907 [Edit]
>>35784

OP here. I recently realized that there was an 8-episode Shaft OVA (about equivalent to a cour in runtime) which I overlooked that technically began airing in Fall 2016, so should have been included in this analysis. The OVA is titled Kubikiri Cycle: Aoiro Savant to Zaregototsukai, and you can read my review for it in another thread if you’re interested. I rated it 5/10 and the only noteworthy qualities it had were script, OST, and cinematography. It merited honourable mentions in these categories (see further below).

I’ve also been rethinking the mystery/psychological genre category. This was in part triggered by my (presently almost complete) rewatch of Flip Flappers. For some reason I overlooked Flip Flappers as a candidate in this category, when it is in fact a good so-called ‘psychological’ show that also has mystery elements. It won so many other categories, it was like it was hiding in plain sight to me. Kubikri Cycle also has some notable mystery elements.

Accordingly, I’ve changed my mystery/psychological winners to the following:
(HM = Honourable Mention)

Mystery/Psychological: Flip Flappers, Joker Game
Mystery/Psychological(HM): Kubikiri Cycle, Re Zero

Consequently, I’ve now removed mystery/psychological from the weakest genres list, which now only includes fantasy (2016 had good genre diversity).

Weakest genres of the year: Fantasy


And the inclusion of Kubikiri Cycle has changed the following honourable mention lists:

Cinematography(HM): Prince of Stride, Flip Flappers, Amanchu, Koutetsujou no Kabaneri, Kubikiri Cycle, Bubuki Buranki
Script(HM): ReLIFE, Amanchu, Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu, Kuma Miko, Kubikiri Cycle, Planetarian, Netoge no Yome wa Onnanoko ja Nai

and Kubikiri has been added to the OST(HM) category as well (see the music-specific post after this).


The inclusion of Kubikiri Cycle also slightly changed the stats I presented in my original post, and the two relevant sentences have been updated to the following:
“Among those 105 viewed anime, 58 were dropped (not watched to completion, likely due to their low quality from my point of view). Therefore my completion rate was 44.8% (47 of 105). My average score (/10) among completed anime was 6.37.”
>> No. 35908 [Edit]
For anybody wondering about the state of my ongoing 2016 anime music review, the award lists in their present form are provided below. At the moment, I still haven’t formally evaluated the music of the following franchises: Hina Logi, Re Zero, Bungou Stray Dogs, Kubikiri Cycle, Orange, Yuri on Ice


Audio Characteristics
*Best soundtrack: Norn9, Planetarian, Prince of Stride
Best voice acting: Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu, ReLIFE, Bungou Stray Dogs
Best OP music: Flip Flappers, Dimension W, Shakunetsu no Takkyuu Musume
Best ED music: Koutetsujou no Kabaneri, Sangatsu no Lion(S1ED1&3), Flip Flappers
*Best character songs: Dream Festival, Magic-Kyun Renaissance


Audio Characteristics (Honourable Mentions)
*Soundtrack: Koutetsujou no Kabaneri, Bubuki Buranki, Drifters, Koukaku no Pandora, Shuumatsu no Izetta, Tenkyou no Alderamin, Dream Festival, Amanchu, Bungou Stray Dogs, Tanaka-kun wa Itsumo Kedaruge, Kubikiri Cycle
Voice acting: Hai to Gensou no Grimgar, Dream Festival, Bubuki Buranki, Sansha Sanyou, Kuma Miko, Hina Logi, High School Fleet
OP music: Udon no Kuni no Kiniro Kemari, Sangatsu no Lion(S1OP1&2, S2OP1), Bungou Stray Dogs(S1,S2&S3), Dream Festival(S1&S2), High School Fleet, Bubuki Buranki(S1), Prince of Stride, Norn9, Re Zero(S1&S2), Long Riders, Tenkyou no Alderamin, Reikenzan(S1&S2), Mahou Shoujo Ikusei Keikaku, Magic-Kyun Renaissance, Kiznaiver, Amanchu(S1), Netoge no Yome wa Onnanoko ja Nai, Shounen Maid, Idol Memories, New Game(S1&S2)
ED music: Drifters, Dimension W, Bubuki Buranki(S1), Bungou Stray Dogs(S1,S2&S3), Prince of Stride, Tenkyou no Alderamin, Norn9, Dream Festival(S1), Reikenzan(S1&S2), Planetarian, Re Zero(S1&S2), Udon no Kuni no Kiniro Kemari, ReLIFE(ED1&3), Idol Memories, Magic-Kyun Renaissance, New Game(S1&S2), Amanchu(S1), Amaama to Inazuma
*Character songs: New Game, Mahou Shoujo Ikusei Keikaku, Prince of Stride, Norn9(Nagi Yanagi), Shakunetsu no Takkyuu Musume, Girlish Number
>> No. 35909 [Edit]
>>35907
>For some reason I overlooked Flip Flappers as a candidate in this category
>Mystery/Psychological: Flip Flappers
Is this whole award ceremony an excuse to praise Flip Flappers more?
>> No. 35910 [Edit]
File 163399132248.png - (138.70KB , 6233x920 , 2016_Seasonal_Awards.png )
35910
>>35784
I’ve also gone ahead and put the primary award lists into tables, to enhance readability and perhaps lead to more-effective long-term archiving. These tables are attached to this post and the ones afterwards. I realize that I probably should have done this from the start. I will definitely make tables like this for my 2017 analysis, which I am making good progress on by the way, despite some stubborn torrents that have been stalled for months.
>> No. 35911 [Edit]
File 163399137010.png - (449.61KB , 4755x3234 , 2016_Genre_Awards.png )
35911
>>35910
>> No. 35912 [Edit]
File 16339914165.png - (355.51KB , 6403x1848 , 2016_Audiovisual_Awards.png )
35912
>>35911
>> No. 35913 [Edit]
File 163399146040.png - (359.38KB , 7014x1860 , 2016_Writing_Awards.png )
35913
>>35912
>> No. 35914 [Edit]
File 163399150652.png - (557.50KB , 6800x3188 , 2016_Experience_Awards.png )
35914
>>35913

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