http://tohno-chan.com/mai/arch/res/6228.html

You can say the same thing about any relationship, not only 2d. Besides, who said there is no chance at all that you will love your waifu till the day you die?

>>13351
>You can say the same thing about any relationship, not only 2d.
Guess you have a point there.

>Besides, who said there is no chance at all that you will love your waifu till the day you die?
I don't know, but its still possible. Its hard to imagine a 50 years old guy with a teenage waifu coming from a videogame. And to be honest, it sure does sound weird.

>>13351
>You can say the same thing about any relationship, not only 2d.
Nope. 3D bitches do exist apart from you; they have bodies and shit; they can't be a scar on you since they do not inhabit within you (like waifus). Superior 2D love is definitely not equivalent to disgusting 3D love; all comparisons I've seen around here claiming so are either pitifully delusional or poorly thought.

>>13354
I wouldnt go that far, but yeah, i do think waifus influence you way more than 3d can. Only on a more personal, more psychologic way. Hard to describe, especially because im still not really used to english.

My waifu relationship of two years already has scarred her, because, to put it in Persona perspective (since both of our waifus are from Persona), I have come across XVI - The Tower, along my fool's journey in love. I had forgotten that was wasn't real, and let all my feelings for her build up until external forces shook my tower and brought me crumbling down, leaving my life in shambles and pieces, and I had to look outside and see the realities of the situation I was unintentionally hiding myself from the entire time, and since has left me unmotivated, in living pain, and contemplating suicide, to the point where I have been contemplating suicide and started having to see a psychiatrist.

I've had a hard time of thinking the same of "waifuism" the same again, especially since I've noticed that waifuism isn't a culturally accepted thing in the West or Japan, and it feels like there's a completely different psychology on waifus than we initially think there is, even if there are cases where it could have actually been love at first, it just feels like waifus as a whole are completely different to us than we think they are, from a dependance to a comfort zone to, avoiding something/coping with something, to in worst case scenarios, parasites in a relationship.

Today i was so fed up with the world that I almost said that I hated her, but I quickly realized that it wasn't her that I hated, but the situation. I hate this whole "waifu" thing, why can't she just fucking be real!?

Shit. i'm sorry.

>>13356
>I hate this whole "waifu" thing, why can't she just fucking be real!?
Yeah.

>>13356
>>13357
If that's what you really want, then don't waste your time here. Really, there's no point. Go get a real bitch to get your normal life back; you might spend on her even more than on shrinks though, and with just as disappointing results.

>>13356
>I hate this whole "waifu" thing, why can't she just fucking be real!?

With this statement, you just told the rest of this board that your problems are you want to get into a 3D/normal relationship and the reason for that is because you lost sight of what it meant to have a waifu, at least in your own perspective. You wanted to reap the benefits of having her without doing a few sacrifices, like being aware that there would be no physical contact between the two of you or hiding your relationship in a society which will never culturally understand.

You wanted to do things that made 3D relationships a step behind 2D ones: The two people engaged in it could exchange comfort and companionship, provided that they "unconditionally" love each other. In other words, they have a set condition that they will "unconditionally" love each other.

2D love doesn't even have that condition. I mean, my waifu isn't even aware that I, or a hundred more neckbeards or NEETs or whoever all over the world, do exist. Does that stop me from loving her, despite not making her know that I am here? I can never kiss, hug nor touch her hands, but as long as I feel love for her, I'm happy. No exchanges required. They say that makes 2D love superior to 3D love out of respect, but I am not doing this for superiority's sake.

But you want to have a normal relationship, I'm not gonna personally stop you. Just remember, somebody told me that the hay is greener and longer on the other side, and then that side becomes mine.

>>13361
>as long as I feel love for her, I'm happy. No exchanges required.
Bingo.

>>13349
Yeah, I doubt I could truly move on completely if I left her, I can't really imagine a future with out her. You never really know what the future holds it's best to focus on what we have.

>>13361
This post really hit the nail on the head and honestly cultural/social acceptance is the worst reason for wanting your love to change (no excuses).
That said, I'm still on the fence on whether I'd like my waifu to be 'real' or not. I wouldn't want her to be a 3D person because I feel like that wouldn't really be her if that happened and I guess that automatically means I don't want her to be 'real', I would like her to have feelings for me though. I guess I'd like something in between real and unreal. In the end though I'm happy the way things are .

It's laughable how >>13361 and >>13358 seem to have a problem with a guy wishing to be with his waifu. In fact, if a normal relationship means seeing her everyday and being able to take care of her, I'm going to take that over lurking at my monitor feeling content with looking at pictures of her any. fucking. day.
Go ahead and call me a Ford Driver for it. I'd just live the normal life together with her because I care more about that girl than your stupid tenants and your stupid 2D/3D views.

>>13365
I'm not either of the anons that post was directed at,and while I would go into the 2D world with her in a heartbeat, the 3D world would destroy her, something as good ideal and perfect as 2D couldn't handle a fucked up world like this. So it would only be selfish of me for her to come here.

Post edited on 19th Sep 2013, 1:11pm

>>13366
While I don't fully agree with you, it's definitely a point to be taken into consideration.

>>13366
Speaking as an outside observer, that's downright strange. That's like if Christians didn't want Jesus to return because the modern world would ruin him, or if a Ford Driver didn't want a movie star to blow him because it might not be what he'd expect.

It's really unusual. If your waifu was real, you'd be able to touch her and smell her and all the stuff one would (obviously) want to do. There'd be no ruining to speak of. Looking at the medium, let's face it: anime isn't known for it's dynamic character development (I mean, a girl simply getting her hair cut is a huge deal in anime) so I wouldn't worry about them being changed by the 3D world.

>>13368
Sorry but in my opinion the 2D reality is made to be ideal and perfect in a lot of SOL anime, and if you take a character from that and place it in a fucked up world like this there are going to be negative consequences. My waifu at least, is naive and innocent as fuck, and wouldn't know how to handle the harshness of reality.

>>13373
>>13368
It's not strange at all and I agree with him. You can see real world examples of this in countries where women turn to shit after being brainwashed by western media. they go from living simple lives to developing eating disorders and unreasonable expectations of the men around them and start to view them at tools to be used and discarded at their whim and so on and so forth. I know normal people here who have never heard of anime and wouldn't touch an American women because of how nasty they are. but even forerunners change over time when they come to the states and turn into typical American trash.
These sorry excuses for women are a byproduct of their surroundings. These disgusting tattoo covered shanks who smoke and drink and whore themselves out... they weren't born that way. It's culture that turns them into garbage like that. their life styles are learned not genetic.

You'd have to be kidding yourself if you think your sweet and innocent dream girl isn't going to be influenced at all by this world and change at least a little bit. Not unless you plan on locking her up in a basement or a shack out in the woods far away from society for the rest of her life, but even that will cause all sorts of physiological damage.

Post edited on 19th Sep 2013, 5:10pm

>>13370
Derailment imminent.

>>13365
>It's laughable how >>13361 and >>13358 seem to have a problem with a guy wishing to be with his waifu.
No: the ridicule is you guys not realizing that you effectively are with your waifu already, safely and inseparably, by the very means of what a waifu is and how it works. Your problem is that you stubbornly want a woman and mistake a waifu for such, and that's the reason why you'll never ever ever get what you want from a waifu (I guarantee it). Your suffering over her non existence is your own damned fault.

>>13370
No, it's deeper than that. Women don't turn into shit: they are shit, from the very beginning. People are unfit for love not because they're unworthy under some petty puritanical standard or some crap, but because feelings towards actual things are fundamentally misplaced; they belong to art, where they sprung from (the beginning of platonic paideia).

>>13365
>It's laughable how >>13361 and >>13358 seem to have a problem with a guy wishing to be with his waifu.

I already said that I'm not gonna personally stop me from wanting a 3D relationship, as it is neither my loss nor my gain. Besides, if he doesn't stick to his waifu, that's his decision. Just don't expect that people here are going to unanimously react positively to it.

>>13373
>by the very means of what a waifu is and how it works
It looks like we're done discussing this. It's the moments like this that make me glad I've basically relinquished the terms 'waifu' and your 'waifuism' quite a while ago.

>>13375
>It's the moments like this that make me glad I've basically relinquished the terms 'waifu' and your 'waifuism' quite a while ago.

So yeah, you want a 3D woman and you want a 2D one to work the same as 3D one, despite the obvious impossibility of it to happen. You can't blame that to concept of waifus or 2D women, it's your own fault you took the word "waifu" literally.

Now if you want to get into a 3D relationship, stop telling us that you can't find happiness in your 2D love because that's just you as an individual and all you might do is to offend a few good people here.

>>13370
>Not unless you plan on locking her up in a basement [...] far away from society for the rest of her life
Actually, that's more or less how it works...

Mai waifu is stuck in here with me, making me (and me alone) the sweetest melancholic company. She's not my hostage, though: she just cannot live anywhere else; as my own take on her (already a fully fictional character), her existence begins and ends with me and, conversely, I've committed my own life to her in order to make this work. That's the kind of sublime bond one shares with a waifu: to truly become one, by the power of love. Such thing could never be achieved with an actual woman: it's simply impossible; like with that spoon on the Matrix, which you'll never get to bend until you accept that there is no spoon and what really bends is yourself.

>>13379
You know the context of the line you're quoting is in regards to bring your waifu to the real world right?

>>13382
Obviously. That's why I developed it: to show that what he sees as an outrageous thing to do to a 3D-awakened waifu is SOP with a waifu as it is and will stay. Waifus are suitable for love not despite their fictional status but because of it; to long for them to be actual living women (pure or whatever) means destroying them to the core.

>>13373
>No: the ridicule is you guys not realizing that you effectively are with your waifu already, safely and inseparably
But that's not true, either from subjective or objective point of view, regardless I want it or not.

>>13384
Are you with yourself or not?
Do you conform that picture of self by loving her image within you or not?
Do you love her or not?

Of course she's not with you like a bitch would, if that's what you mean.

related

>>13385
>Are you with yourself or not?
Irrelevant.

>Do you conform that picture of self by loving her image within you or not?
That has nothing to do with "being with someone".

>Do you love her or not?
That has nothing to do with "being with someone".

>>13388
She ain't someone, that's the point.
She ain't and won't be your bitch indeed.

I'm not misusing words; it is you who resist to acknowledge the specificity of language games (and the ways of life they respectively entail) implied by the fundamental difference between a waifu and a woman; as long as you persist on that, you'll get nothing from this. You want what you want; all I'm telling you is you might be looking at the wrong place.

"What they are doing, in essence, is shifting the belief that their lives are real to their belief that the elements comprising of the 2-D world are more worthy of ontological commitment. [...] This shift, I argue, is a two-fold process, one which first involves the realization that the previous aspects of one’s life is total and utter bullshit, and then requiring a re-commitment of what we consider to be real or not real. [...] ontological commitment is absolutely necessary to survival in a postmodern world, one in which the individual may find no true objective reality to latch themselves on to. [...] otaku have decidedly incorporated elements of the 2-D world they regularly engage with into not only their daily routines, but their very lives."

SOURCE: http://behind-the.nihonreview.com/20100313/suicide-otaku-and-bullshit/

>>13390
Whenever waifu is "someone" or not, is just stupid semantics games, because everything with humanlike attributes, regardless its existence can be referred as "someone". Fine, just for sake of the argument, let's change it:
>That has nothing to do with "being with".

to love != to be with
to conform that picture of self by loving her image within != to be with

Unless new language has been invented, then please publish the dictionary.

Point here is, everyone has right to feel, is he with his waifu or not. I've accepted long time ago that my feelings are one-sided, but I am not going to pretend I am with her, if my current situation doesn't match with my viewpoint regarding "being with her". I can fantasize of being with her, but by doing it consciously, I am not still with her. And that is the point; she is the unreachable dream, incapable to return my feelings, and it is the reason I am capable to love her so affectionately.

Post edited on 21st Sep 2013, 1:22am

>>13395
>And that is the point; she is the unreachable dream, incapable to return my feelings, and it is the reason I am capable to love her so affectionately.
Fair enough. I think we more or less agree on the most important (about what is worthy of love).

However: my point about her not being "someone" was, if you prefer, about her not being "someone else (out there)"; that since she exists neither physically or as any sort of free agency, it's incorrect to regard her as an alterity to be reached and "be with" in the sense of proximity or exchange: in that sense, she is already here, distance zero, simply because she's an splitting of my inner self (there's no pretending on that). Furthermore: it's because I acknowledge as well that she exists merely in my dreams, in my thoughts, that I can safely affirm I can be with her (i.e. with the thought of her that constitutes her entirely) insofar as I reinforce her signical existence by effectively reworking my entire mind and life in relation with her... or, in short, by loving her. It does feel like an endless longing for me as well, just not in the sense of absence but of ecstatic contemplation (of the aforementioned split).

>>13402
Key difference here is, that I understand everyone doesn't share the same view point. I understand different value systems, wishes and interests manifest different types of individuals which reflects in their expectations and interpretation of love, waifu and everything between and around. End point being, waifu is not just how Mr. Asuka sees it. It's not black and white, there is a lot of grey.

But still just because it is impossible to reach and "be with her", it doesn't change definition it of how one wants. Having thoughts of her and "making her exist" in my own sanctuary, in my head, is different if I were able to confirm her as human kind of creature in some domain in my closeness and being with her. That's why I can certainly confirm, I am not with her, not matter how precious thoughts of her I hold, I am just being accompanied by my limited thoughts and imitations of her.

Theres to many people in the who think they are an authority/understand on love,relationships, 'waifus' and 'waifuism'

>>13375
What a conceited way to drop out of an argument. Not everyone is obligated to share your personal views, especially on something as varied as 2D love (or whatever you want to call it, since you're so hung up on semantics).

>>13404
Agreed.

>>13404
It's just arguments. Refute them if you disagree.

>>13403
>I am just being accompanied by my limited thoughts and imitations of her.
Indeed: that's all she is and will be for you. If you don't love her for that, then you're lost. But I believe you do; my point is just to acknowledge it; it won't destroy any of what you've built but, rather, will give it more solid ground.

>>13404
It isn't a matter of being an authority on something but rather a varied interpretation of what it should be. I, for one, hate many of the beliefs of fellow 'waifufags', it's why I'm even reluctant to use the term. This isn't because I believe I'm some authority on the matter, but rather because I am trying to make some more solid sense of the essence of a truer or purer form of waifuism, a term that is pretty foggy due to numerous interpretations. It's a word and I want it to mean something concrete rather than some catch-all term for more specific beliefs X, Y, and zed. Defining boundaries means exclusion, and because I want to define it for my own sake (which is not an act of authority, since you could just as easily define it in your own way), I will draw the boundaries around interpretations of waifuism that best resonate with my core value system. It's not because I'm more right than you, but because I hate what this term is or has become. All in all, probably easier to ditch the term altogether. Most of the people who use it are disagreeable at best and downright distasteful at worst.

>>13411
>This isn't because I believe I'm some authority on the matter, but rather because I am trying to make some more solid sense of the essence of a truer or purer form of waifuism, a term that is pretty foggy due to numerous interpretations.

Replace "waifuism" with "Christianity" or "punk" and you'll figure out why the two latter terms are now philosophically dying out or, in the case of Christianity, headed in a way where it became widespread but had a lot of interpretations.

>>13411
So essentially, you just dislike everyone that has different views on 2D love/waifuism/etc than you do? That's really not much different than labeling everyone else as 'wrong' and yourself as 'right', even if you don't openly proclaim yourself as doing so. Moreover...

>Most of the people who use it are disagreeable at best and downright distasteful at worst.
Surely you must realize how hypocritical statements like this are, right? Making sweeping generalizations about a community simply for using a common term is about as 'disagreeable' as you can possibly hope to get.

I'm not horribly fond of the term 'waifu' either, but its been established in the community at this point so it's honestly pretty absurd to get angry at people for using it. There was actually some perfectly civil discussion about different terms that could be used instead a while back.

>>13413
>So essentially, you just dislike everyone that has different views on 2D love/waifuism/etc than you do? That's really not much different than labeling everyone else as 'wrong' and yourself as 'right', even if you don't openly proclaim yourself as doing so.
Not wrong or right, different. And I never said I hate everyone who disagrees with me on this, that's an exaggeration. There are some people (like plenty of people on this very board) who I don't see eye-to-eye with but whose ideas I still respect and somewhat understand, despite the difference in opinion. This might be because there are some things we also have a few things in common. Yet there are some whose interpretation of waifuism completely contradicts my core belief of waifuism, beliefs that make me shake my head in disapproval (again, not like my opinion particularly matters). I prefer my take on things, and there's no need to think that such a position is in any way wrong, after all, many people take their opinions to be preferable to other opinions while still acknowledging the possibility that their value judgements are flawed in their own specific way. A tad intolerant, maybe, but who said I have to be entirely tolerant? I can't find it in my moral system to be accepting of those I wholeheartedly disagree with. Stupid? Possibly, but oh well, label me a fool.

>Surely you must realize how hypocritical statements like this are, right? Making sweeping generalizations about a community simply for using a common term is about as 'disagreeable' as you can possibly hope to get.
It's a generalization I base on all of the experience I've witnessed thus far, so I'm fully aware it may not represent anything objectively correct. Call it crass or foolish or judgemental, I don't care, but I'm putting my feelings on the matter (as worthless as others, or even I, may find them) into words. Whether I'm disagreeable or even a straight-up asshole is up to you to interpret, but all I'm trying to be is honest and to put forward my viewpoint, however irrational or illogical or unpopular, for others to possibly consider. This opinion may even be subject to change in the future, who knows.

>I'm not horribly fond of the term 'waifu' either, but its been established in the community at this point so it's honestly pretty absurd to get angry at people for using it.
You're probably right, but I can't help it. I feel too strongly, I let my foolishness take hold of me too often.

>>13412
Sure. But I'm not concerned with whether 'waifuism' flourishes in vagueness or dies due to a lack of strict adherence. In the end, when I'm talking about waifuism with others, I'm looking for someone who really does love or feel great affection toward their waifus and that is somewhat relatable. Hearing their stories and their thoughts on different aspects of waifuism is always a pleasure; it's one of the reasons I like this board so much and why I am not fond of discussing waifus anywhere else. But when I hear others talk about how, for example, they're gonna ditch their waifu if they get bored of her or whatever (but they swear, they're serious about them blah blah blah), I can't bring myself to talk to them in the same way I can talk to the former group. I feel no desire to share my stories/opinions of waifuism with them, and to me it feels like their use of the term 'waifu' only serve to dilute any serious interpretation of it. So it's possible the whole concept of waifuism becomes popular yet loses all meaning. There's no reason to want that. Again, this is why I might as well just adopt a new term for all of this, since people seem to get offended at any notion of potentially excluding others. I know I sound intolerant, but not much else is to be expected of an ineffectual aspie like me.

>>13414
> But when I hear others talk about how, for example, they're gonna ditch their waifu if they get bored of her or whatever (but they swear, they're serious about them blah blah blah), I can't bring myself to talk to them in the same way I can talk to the former group.

I agree with this 100%, like I said in another thread it disgusts me.

>>13410
But my point is, I am not with her, like the statement said. And when I say be with, I mean be with like anything else, because there is no other way to be with.

I am trying to think is in more divergence way, just because she merely exists only in my thoughts, still my imagination allows me to consider that she could be more. That's why consider her as unreachable dream and I can confirm, I am not with her by any means. Rather better said, she is very distant.

Edit: We may end this in disagreeable agreement. I understand our viewpoints, but still I refuse to accept that my one-sided feelings could ever be considered as being with her. That's why I think, it is incorrect to claim that anyone could be with his waifu by any means.

Post edited on 22nd Sep 2013, 8:56am

>>13414
>Not wrong or right, different. And I never said I hate everyone who disagrees with me on this, that's an exaggeration. There are some people (like plenty of people on this very board) who I don't see eye-to-eye with but whose ideas I still respect and somewhat understand, despite the difference in opinion.
Alright, that makes more sense to me. Thank you for clarifying.

> Hearing their stories and their thoughts on different aspects of waifuism is always a pleasure; it's one of the reasons I like this board so much and why I am not fond of discussing waifus anywhere else. But when I hear others talk about how, for example, they're gonna ditch their waifu if they get bored of her or whatever (but they swear, they're serious about them blah blah blah), I can't bring myself to talk to them in the same way I can talk to the former group.
I completely agree here, but it's where I got confused before; when you said that the majority of people using the term 'waifu' had become disagreeable or distasteful, I thought you were referring to this board. It seems like I had assumed wrong and that you were primarily talking about other places though.

>>13417
> It seems like I had assumed wrong and that you were primarily talking about other places though.
Oh yeah, by most people I mean most people all over the internet. Some use it lightly (which I don't really take offense to, though it's kind of a dead joke), some of us like here are dead serious and it shows with our conversations, others are kind of in-between. They fancy themselves somewhat serious but you can tell by what they say and how they treat their waifus that they'd willingly discard the whole waifu business the moment they spot a random 3D whore willing to talk to them for more than 5 seconds.

>>13418
Right. My apologies for jumping to conclusions. I don't blame you at all for being agitated at that brand of half-hearted "2D lover", because they really bother me too.

It's been only 2 years, 5 months, 12 days since we first met, about 2 years since I realized my feelings for her. I've met many women since then, both 2D and 3D, but I've never thought of leaving my beloved one and starting another relationship. And my feelings for Nozomi don't seem to become weaker either. And even though there's much more time left before I leave this world, I am certain that I will never abandon her. We shall unite in afterlife, and until then, I am staying with my beloved waifu. I love her way too much to even imagine living without her.

I don't have a waifu anymore and the scar will always be there, it's even worse when her story is still ongoing because when a new anime/Manga comes out you will be reminded of it.

I've been trying to avoid her at all cost even to the point that i get angry if i see her.

I feel kinda empty without her after all those years when she was my waifu, but i can't turn back now.

>>13482
I'm on the heavily scarred path myself, but it really sounds like more or less you have some unresolved business with her that you need to sort out.

You can't truly recover from this without figuring all this stuff out. I wish you luck.

>>13383

Out of curiosity, if one were to immanentize one's waifu (in virtual or robotic form, perhaps) would this act still constitute "destroying" her?

>>13579
Since you put Athena in your pic, allow me to answer with a quote from Hanamonogatari:

"The moment you were my daughter, you were already cursed. This is not limited to you, though, the moment every baby is ´born from a person´ they get cursed. Don't you think it's gross? That a person is born from another person, I mean."

Why quoting this? because I think the status of such waifu embodiment (i.e. an android) would be indeed very close to that of breeding children, with all the unsolved conflicts such relation has. Because: how does one love a daughter? as an extension of one's self and expectations? ain't that just having kids like dolls (to play with in the dollhouse of society)? If what I suspect is correct, not just incarnating the ideal beloved does destroy it, but also the newborn entity is bounded to suffer the violence of that at once creative and destructive force that is love...

Either I or the world is seriously fucked up.

>>13526
Yes, there is a part inside of me that still cares about her, since her series is still ongoing, that part of me still goes back to reading it to see her and her adventures. I hate it, i wish i could erase her for my mind, forever.

It will always be an open wound for me. I would never let myself heal, question of principles. Even if I move on, I don't think I will stop loving her