Few years ago, It can't be helped.

A long time ago. Sometimes I pick up a pen and paper and try to draw with /ic/'s help. Every time, it starts with Andrew Loomis and such, then I just give up. I'll be talentless forever, and it's my own fault because I can't push through it.

Early high school, I guess. I still have lots of silly fantasies but I know they're just that.

Soon after I entered high school. I was suddenly not so talented at school anymore and came to the realization I was only good at school because it was easy before that point. The moment I actually had to begin putting in effort I floundered.

Aside from school I never considered myself talented at anything. I've never been too good or bad at most things. I'm just entirely average in almost every way with just a few ups and downs that stick out occasionally.

High school. It wasn't that I was smart in primary or intermediate school, everybody else was just dumb as a brick.

I'd realized that I was shit ever since elementary, I just didn't want to accept it at the time and tried to deny it as much as I could. I eventually learned it the hard way that I wasn't any good for anything.

>>13400
Story of my life.
Being talentless wouldn't bother me so much if I had anything to blame it on other than myself.

I used to be sad about being talent-less.
I draw now only to impress myself.
Never been more happy.

High School. I could play guitar very well but I could never write anything of my own. Same goes for storytelling. I can mince together enough words for a silly poem, but when it comes to proper narrative I'm totally lost.

It's frustrating because every single counselor and psychiatrist I've seen keeps telling me how creative I am and how I should be putting it to some use, that I should be bettering the world with my talents. Why would I want to benefit the world in any way? It's awful. Why would I want to entertain people? They're the worst.

I realized I was a useless loser in elementary school. I knew my life was a ticking time bomb just waiting to end in disaster from the very beginning.

I don't think I've ever considered myself talented. Maybe some phases where I thought I was good at a particular game, but those were extremely short. If anything, I'm probably below average at everything not worthwhile.

Really late, shortly after high school was over. Throughout middle and high school, I thought I was hot shit because I knew how to program.

Then I realized there were people my age who were not only better than me at coding, but were also motivated to actually make things during high school, as opposed to just dicking around and making useless scripts.

I blame lack of talent on the lack of imagination in the first place. If I don't know what I want to draw/create any other way, I will never have motivation to learn doing it well.

The only thing I'm decent at is drawing but that's not really something you can make a successful career out of unless you got the right connections and know how to sell yourself; which I'm hopeless at.

Several times over my life actually, when getting serious about every single thing I ever attempted.

>>13416
Same here: only derivative drawing stuff and simple songs to enjoy myself, now. What I find ridiculous is that people who do just that (read: deviants) and shamefully bad at it, call themselves artists and their shit art... those deluded, ignorant and right talentless bastards.

I always feel like talent is talking about the motivation to practice and dedicate time to something.

I know that I'd be good at things if I just decided on something and went through with it without doubts. But I fear failure like nothing else... so I stagnate. Anytime I try to progress in something, I get panic attacks, and drop it immediately. So I guess I am talentless.

I realized it in middle school.

>>13433
It's basically impossible to irrecoverably fail in most pursuits, except if your 'chute fails when skydiving or something like that. Even if some particular goal is not met, your skill in whatever it is you're doing is bound to increase at least until you get decent at it.

>>13434
Yes, that is very logical, and I accept that. However, I still can't integrate it into my belief system on a subconscious level. The self-hating fragment of me is winning these battles.

>>13436
I lol'd.
Then I sigh'd.

A few months ago.

>>13436
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCQjrW0ofRE

I'm still coming to terms with it. Ive got a fragile ego. I'm quick to blame others. Paradoxically, I think I'm better than others, but I've internalised my own loserishness, both at the same time, like some kind of weird inferiority complex. Probably being in a dumb people's high school surrounded by dumb people made me too cocky.

Its tough, because I've never really expended lots of active effort trying to get better at something. I've reached mid-level mastery of certain games, but I've never become a pro. Ive been dicking around on my guitar for years but can only play one song properly. etc, etc. It takes me down a notch if I internalise the fact that only the hardest working, most talented, most prepared people become the highl-yrewarded elite.

>>13400
>>13413
>>13422

So where do you guys stand on the whole "Natural Talent vs. HARD WORK AND GUTS!" debate? Cause I'm leaning mostly towards the latter here.

I know no amount of motivational quotes or speeches from the likes of Rocky Balboa, Captain America, Kamina, Coach Ohta, or fucking whoever, will necessarily make that much, if any, difference in your life or your personal goals. Fuck, if anything, a lot of people take that shit too literally.

Cap got his powers as good as handed to him by a government scientist. Rocky gets a training montage to make otherwise long, tedious training pass in the time span of one awesome song. Kamina was self-admittedly just an overconfident lucky idiot with lot of tough talk because he knew he had someone to bail his ass out if he did something stupid. Coach Ohta could probably make an amazingly convincing speech about anything and have us believing him just because Norio Wakamoto.

Seems like a lot of people forget that there's no defining moment of change. There's no training montage, no magical, hot-blooded man-the-fuck-up moment. Shit happens slowly over the years. Not like there's any specific number equated to any specific level either. Could be just a few years, could be half your life (could be almost your entire life). There's too many fucktons of variables to tell. How often do you practice a day? How often does all the other shit in your life allow you to practice a day? Fuck, there may even be some slight element of natural aptitude involved, but as far as I know, usually not to the extent of "YOU WILL NEVER BE ANY GOOD AT THIS. EVER. STOP TRYING."

Even so, I'm not gonna speak for making a full-time profession out of creative work. Actually, I'd advise against it. It'd raise your standards for yourself to ridiculous heights, it'd pressure you to work uncomfortably fast, and in this day and age, there honestly isn't nearly as much point to it. Self-publishing, independent distribution, and having an all-around DIY ethic have become easier than ever. Even if you can just sustain yourself in some way that lets you have time to do what you like on the side, that should be good enough, regardless of how good or terrible you think you are at it.


tl;dr, Hard work and guts! Never give up! Trust your instincts! Additional generic motivational quote!

>>13539
>where do you guys stand on the whole "Natural Talent vs. HARD WORK AND GUTS!" debate?
My conception is that there's some varying degree of natural talent in the bottom, but with linear practice, hard work and stern determination sitting on top. In that regard I also lean towards the latter, but the former can't be completely disregarded either. I also agree with the sentiment you communicate in your last paragraph (excluding the tl;dr).

>>13539
I believe that practice and hard work do help a ton, but I also believe that natural talent is part of it. It's easy to tell when somebody doesn't have any natural talent as they will fumble and lag with what should be easy for those with even the slightest amount of talent. Then there are those with a high amount of talent that seem to do it with amazing ease and motion, as if they were born to do those things.

Natural talent is just a gauge. Hard work and practice should let you fill it up with exp points to level it to the limit of what you can reach. And just like a class, some people do not have access to certain spells/skills because of their class.

>>13541
I'll agree that certain people can be quicker learners at certain things than other people.

The "set limit/class" bit you mentioned is where I'd say the fine line between pessimism and realism gets a little blurred though.

>>13539
If mediocre is enough, then most people can attain it with training. But the top, the real mastery, can only be reached with a good amount of natural talent and other things that do not depend just on hard work. Even luck plays a part in all of this.

Are you guys confusing talent with success?

>>13544
Ok, for one thing, you seem to think there's no middle ground between mediocrity and Haruhi tier perfect mastery. I honestly can't think of a way to formally argue against that without coming off really hard as Captain Obvious, so I'll leave it at "That's a load of shit."

For another, you seem to think that Haruhi tier perfect mastery exists at all. There is no "top". There is no peak of perfection you can reach that leaves no room for improvement whatsoever. And even if someone does something "professionally" and you don't, doesn't make them automatically better at it. Popularity and success does not completely determine your skill nor the quality of your work. A lot of amateur artists could draw circles around Rob Liefeld, but look at Deadpool. Some of you guys could probably draw circles around ZUN, but look at Touhou. Luck plays more of a role in success than skill.

tl;dr, see >>13548

>>13551
The people who look at that chart and adopt it as their life philosophy all end up with a horrible dead-end job and die having accomplished nothing. It's actually much like NEETdom, if you don't know how to enjoy yourself as a NEET. For those of you who are on this board and have 5+ of being a shut-in in succession, you might know the feeling. Years blur together, nothing satisfies you anymore, chronic exhaustion, and so forth. That's exactly what having a "realistic" job feels like.

Say genetics play some role in it. Okay, no problem. Just breathe and accept it. But from that point on, do everything in your power to attain that which you desire, even if you fail and it kills you. There's nothing to lose, because you're going to die in 50 years anyway. The satisfaction of working towards your dream, no matter the end result, will make you happy to be alive. Life is suddenly imbued with electricity. And like I said, this could be a total loser who failed at everything in their miserable existence during up to that point. It works for anybody, as long as there is something that legitimately inspires them.

And if there's nothing that creates this type of delirious excitement yet, then I'm not sure what to do, sorry. I'm just speaking from personal experience. For whatever reason, I always had a few things that I wanted to do.

>>13552
Which chart?

If it's the success ladder one, I was quoting the post, not the picture.

If it's the one I posted, the first part of your post makes no sense.

I don't know if I was too clear or not, but what I meant for it to boil down to was, "Success (in the business sense) is a fat load of bullshit and more luck and connections than actual talent." I never said anything about personally endorsing the success chart there as a way of life. Just that success and talent are not synonymous.

Actually, I'd probably agree with some of what you said. I've been studying, pursuing, and writing music for about 8 years now, never intending to make a career out of it from the start. After a while, I thought I'd be ok with just some dead-end shit job as long as it payed the rent and gave me at least the slightest bit of free time to write music on the side just for writing music's sake (though even a dead-end shit job seems out of reach right now).

While I can't speak for being a NEET that long, and I don't doubt that it'll take its toll on my mind further eventually, I'll at least agree that it's good to have something in your life to be that passionate about.

Just now.

>>13552
I like being a NEET because I do now how to enjoy myself and find much value in life, and don't completely shut myself in but there are some things that are really taking a toll on my mind. All through my life I have had much trouble dealing with the colder months (which is like November to the end of April or beginning of May here), I become very depressed or sometimes my mind goes haywire. This was the hardest year for me yet in that way. Because of my health and state of mind I become a partial forced hikki and anytime I do get to get out of the house like on a weekend if someone is going out to eat in the house like usual I'll tag along and it'll be the most enjoyment I get out of almost any week in my frozen nightmare. I'm a very nature based person, almost all of my enjoyment of anything in life has roots in the surrounding environment. If it isn't warm (over 65 degrees) and that connection is severed my life is gone and can only be felt through drugs, meditation, and music. Because of my ruined state of mind and body I'm also much more open to getting sick. I let my guard down just a little and I'm gonna be having a runny nose and very sore throat like I actually have now as I type this but at least it isn't so bad that I can't get anything down my throat. When you expose me to anything under 60 degrees I also become a twitchy robot so even the way I move is affected. I forget what it feels like to be able to freely move and that cold creeps in everywhere I go. There's no escape and I'm stuck in it till it's over. So all in all when warmer times I come I have almost no issues but my own loneliness sometimes because I can feel that life wherever I go.

Physically? In middle school. People with much less healthier lifestyles still found it easier to maintain a better physique. Some especially talented athletes types could best me in sports that I've been playing all my life after learning a few months.

Mentally? When I got into the gifted program and became a small fish in a big pond. There are people out there that once again work just as hard or harder than you and naturally learn things faster, have ridiculous superior memories etc. Being around actual geniuses helps emphasize that point.

Hard work can get you far but it would be stupid and naive to think that there are those who won't get farther than you - to even levels you cannot reach - after putting in the same amount of effort. That doesn't mean stop doing what you like but realizing your own limitations is a coming of age lesson IMO.

>>13832
Funny, it's the exact opposite for me. I don't like nature nor warmth. I like urban environments in the fall and winter. That can also be attributed to the fact that I don't like sunlight. I want it to be dark as much as possible. Now that the days are getting longer, warmer... it puts a lot of stress on me.

I realized it when I entered college.

Not only was my artwork pale in comparison to everyone else's when the year started, but I also learned at a much slower rate than everyone else too, leading me to be easily outclassed.

I'm useless as an artist and terrible as a person. Some of us are just destined to be nobodies.

>>13831
It hurts a bit.