I'm Jewish so

>>4763
I questioned God existing when I was still in elementary school. I came out as a full atheist in grade 11. My parents never brought me to church again. Grow some balls and say you don't believe in that shit, or endure.

>>4763
I was baptized when I was 10 and my parents were agnostics. It's not that bad. Receive a little water to the head, eat some of those disgusting wafers, go home and never talk about it again.

If you really don't want to, follow this advice: >>4765

Post edited on 6th Jun 2011, 2:06am

I grew up with two parents from separate religions, but I was raised in my father's (most of my mother's family goes to church maybe twice a year, so they're not really serious about it, pretty typical for American Catholics I think.) Thankfully though, my religion doesn't have any confirmation bullshit for me to go through, and my parents and relatives never forced me to do religious stuff with them or asked me about my beliefs, so I've had it easy. Religion should be a personal matter anyway.

I'd come out and say that you don't believe in that stuff, and add on something about not wanting to lie about stuff that is important to them. That will get you out and might spare their feelings.

My parents are full blown Catholics and since I was a child I rejected the possibility of a Christian god. I still went through with all those procedures because I was around 10 or so and had no say. They weren't too bad, but you should do what the earlier guys said.

Just go along with it. Get baptized. It'll be easier on everyone, you and your mom. How much energy are you wasting in comparison to just doing it? Once you do it you can slack off majorly.

>>4766
>>4774
This, if you don't consider it a big deal anyway just play along. You're already going to church every Sunday, aren't you? Once you get away from your parents you can give it up entirely.

>>4765
They didn't stop bringing you to church because they didn't feel like forcing you or thought that it was unfair to do so, oh no. They didn't want to spread your satanic taint to other believers.

Whoa, is that how it works in States (because I'm guessing that's where OP is from)? Over here (and in most other catholic countries in Europe) children get baptized when they're infants. Disgusting. Indoctrination of worst sort.

Recently I talked with an atheist 'friend' of mine and she told me she has absolutely no idea why she took church wedding (is that what it's called in English? I honestly couldn't find it in any dictionary) and baptized her child. Social pressure is a scary thing. Oh, and her husband wasn't religious, either.

So, even if people aren't religious they still baptize they children over here. Which is retarded but it can't be helped.

As for advice.. Well, personally I'd like to see less people getting baptized and attending churches so we could finally get over this religious bullshit. Most atheists are like you and me - 'technically' they are referred to as religious in all sorts of statistics even though we'd like to avoid anything church and religion related. Others are scared to come out due to social stigma. I didn't officially quit the church as the procedures are somewhat complicated and I figured it will be problematic for my parents when I finally commit suicide.

But if it's really so important to your mother... Yeah, I'll have to second those 'go along with it' posts. It's a white lie. It's not much of a bother and it will make her happy. Sometimes you've got to compromise.

My parents are Christian influenced. They never go to church, nor do they pray or whatever the fuck those retards do, but it's still there. It was never really a topic in our household, either.

Lately, though, they have started whining at me about how "they done me wrong" by not getting me baptized, or taking me to church, or raising me better at all, even. That sort of thing, you know the drill. Just lame justifications on their part for my NEET lifestyle.

Now, my relationship with them is usually pretty frosty, but lately they have started asking after my religious values. I have no compelling about telling them it's all ridiculous horseshit, and that if you actually believe in a god, that I automatically find you that much stupider. This has seemed to work out pretty sweet for me. They no longer bother me with that kind of dumb shit, nor do they try and seriously talk to me about religion. The only downside that this has seemed to have for me is that they tell me I have no soul straight to my face. It's slightly annoying, but hey, it works for me.

I don't know man, just saying what's worked for me in the exact situation. I don't know how much it'll help you though, as your parents seem to be bible-thumpers.

>>4789
Catholics in the US still baptize at infancy, I guess Anglicans do as well. But a lot of the Protestant sects perform baptism on teenagers or adults. It makes more sense that way if it's seen as a rite of confirmation.

>>4800

Oh, ok. Thanks for the info. I'm rather uninformed when it comes to religion so I never knew there are differences like that between catholics and protestants.

And yeah, it sure makes a lot more sense.

>>4808

>Crystal Castles

Hipsters, on my /so/?

>>4817
Good thing that's the Optimus Prime remix.

Here, have the original.

  Manning up and saying you don't believe in that crap is all well and good, but it could easily make things worse, religious people can and will get very angry with you, and will very likely fight you on it, even if you clearly don't care.
If they don't fight you or get pissed at you, they'll still probably hate or resent you.
This is why I don't go around announcing it, I don't need or want to have to deal with their bull crap.
I'd suggest waiting it out until you get away from them, no telling how those nut jobs might act when you brake the news.

Post edited on 6th Jun 2011, 9:12am

>>4835
Excuse me?

>>4837
There's this guy at work who's heavily religious, and he will basically preach to me when he finds an opening to do so, and I don't believe in gods or any kind of "higher power", but I don't fight it, because he once said "I feel sorry for those who don't have god in their lives", and I don't want to start that shitstorm on the job.

>>4838
>"I feel sorry for those who don't have god in their lives"

How could you stand this? I want to demolish people who say this sort of condescending shit to me. It's one thing to believe in pathetic religious dogma, but the holier than thou attitude makes me want to kill them. I don't need that sort of pity from a deluded fool who still believes in the Easter bunnies of the world.

Fuck, this is making me mad again. I need to take it easier.

>>4841

Unfortunately, one of the people I used to like to talk to has now become like that.

>>4841
My best way of dealing with it is I go home and joke about him behind his back with my mom.

>>4841

Isn't it true, though? A friend of mine always kept saying that she believes none of it but deep down she is envious of all those people. Isn't it normal? Life has no meaning whatsoever, it's miserable, you'll have to go through lots of hardships and then you'll die and by the time your close family will be dead nobody will remember you ever lived. On the other hand, you can delude yourself that life has a meaning, that it's a trial and you'll be rewarded for all you've gone through, that death of people close to you isn't meaningless and that they are in a better place now and that you'll join them if you abide some rather simple rules and will live happily ever after.

Which one sounds better? Overall I think they are better off, too, even if it's all bullshit. The only good thing about being atheist is the fact that you know that you've got one life and then there's fucking nothing, so you might as well live it to the fullest. Except that it sure doesn't seem like it works out well for us.

>>4844
Absolute hopelessness is the only thing that rids me of my anxiety. So, in my case at least, no. I'm fine as an atheist.

>>4842
Same for me. My elder sister doesn't visit much, as she goes to a University that is a five hour drive from me. I hadn't seen her in over a year, and as she is majoring in psychology (or psychiatry, I'm not too sure) I thought I could open up a bit to her.

It turns out she became highly religious over the last year or so, and berated me for my way of living. How I never did anything for myself or anyone else, never planned anything and always slept in all the time, never went to church with my family, etc. and that my life is empty as I have nothing, not even the glory of God. I felt demolished. She didn't even try to make an effort in helping me with these supposed problems, she just insulted me in her week here, and then left.

I don't even understand what could be wrong in my way of living, other than it being more easygoing than hers. I'm sure I've broken no rules in the bible either, so there was no need to treat me so harshly.
Shit sucks, she was the last remaining family member who I still had somewhat of a social connection available with.

>>4844
You're thinking too much into it. From what I understand the only difference between them and us is that they believe in god and follow his teachings, we don't care and follow our own beliefs. When that one guy starts preaching to me and tells me to read the bible, he tells me to interpret it however I want to interpret it. Basically the only difference is the book and the belief in some guy with a spanish name with english pronunciation who walks around in sandals and a robe in public.

>>4842

I've got a similar story, except it's probably quite a bit sadder. I'll try to make it short even though it happened over span of at least 5 years.

A friend of mine comes from a deeply religious family. He had to go through lot after his parents found out he's an atheist (full package, domestic violence included). Obviously, he came to hate every religion out there with the very core of his being (even some more peaceful onces like Buddhism; inb4 'Buddhism is not religion'). I'm pretty sure he was close to burning down every church in his town at least few times and he told me how he wishes to murder every goddamn priest in 50km radius.

I was a fierce misotheist back in the day, too. I knew how he felt and I was happy to have someone who shared my feelings about this. I never took action but overall, I was to religious people what crusaders were to Muslims back in the day. I sure wasn't smart and there was not a speck of tolerance in me for those people (obviously not the case anymore).

And then what happens? He moved to a bigger city to attend some school and met a group of junkies. They're dropping acid on regular basis. And he actually came to believe that retarded 'philosophy' of theirs. At first I couldn't believe what I just heard and didn't want to believe it. Then I asked him some questions. I don't even know what that philosophy is all about as it made no sense to me when he tried to explain it but he backed it by some of the most retarded arguments religious people used (including denying evolution is even real boeing 747 style). On top of that he told that that he once heard someone say 'everyone is an atheist until [insert dosis and drug here, I don't know what it is anymore]' and he couldn't agree more. If you could somehow change my rage at that time to electricity you'd have enough to power a small town for a month.

Then typical 'holier than thou' bullshit followed. I tried to argue with him pointing out how retarded it is but I think it didn't work. I never talked to him again.

Post edited on 6th Jun 2011, 10:44am

>>4845

I'm not saying it doesn't work for some people but (on average) I think it's 'healthier' to be retarded and believe there's some magical guy in the clouds.

>>4847

I'm pretty sure that the difference between believing life has a meaning (as opposed to it being meaningless) is a little bigger than that.

Post edited on 6th Jun 2011, 10:50am

>>4849
Who said anything about believing in god changing your belief of life having meaning?

>>4850

Well, that's how it usually works. I'm not sure whether I ever heard about a religion that insists life has no meaning.

It might be my fault for wording it poorly, though - 'meaning' might not be the best word to use here. But overall in most cases 'everybody has a place in God's plan' or something. Like, you know, stuff happens for a reason. To test your faith or whatever.

>>4844
You're argument is disgusting. Are you seriously trying to say that deliberately deluding yourself to the truths of the world will make you happy, or happier, even? Disgusting.

Stupidity is a sin, but willful ignorance is worse than that. I would rather die then fall to that sort of low.

>>4853
>Are you seriously trying to say that deliberately deluding yourself to the truths of the world will make you happy, or happier, even?

I thought that was one of the main uses of this website, to confirm our delusions until the point where we accept them.

Just thought I'd chime that in, remember to take it easy.

>>4853

>Are you seriously trying to say that deliberately deluding yourself to the truths of the world will make you happy, or happier, even?

I'm not saying it will. I'm saying it does. I bet that on average, religious people live happier lives as opposed to atheists. I obviously have no data to back that claim, just personal experience.

Truth has absolutely no value on it's own. I'm surprised (or rather, I can't comprehend it) that people are so obsessed with it (this and 'justice'). And I'm surprised somebody would use an argument like that on /tc/ out of all possible places. This is a dangerous area here and I don't want to insult anyone so let's just say that I think that escapism lies at the very core of weeaboo culture. And I see nothing wrong with it. Live your life however you want to but please, don't try to shove your morals down other people's throats.

>>4853
Don't we do that in a way here with the worlds of 2D/3D?

>>4855
>I obviously have no data to back that claim, just personal experience.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7302609.stm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article3577517.ece

http://news.discovery.com/human/religion-happiness-social-bonds.html

Took me less than 5 seconds on google.

>>4858

>Took me less than 5 seconds on google.

I knew there are tons of articles like that. But I'm a lazy guy ~

>>4856
except we are well aware that our waifus aren't real. Also this thread should be deleted

>>4855
Doesn't fly. People on TC are well aware that their delusions are all false, and they only use them to make themselves feel better. Religious folks, on the other hand, seem to genuinely believe the shit they shovel. It's disgusting. I can't believe people would actually lie to themselves in such a manner.

Also, it's obvious that religious people would seem happier than atheists. They outnumber them.

>>4861
Yes please. Let's lock the only thread with a shred of real activity. We should at least allow it to go unmolested until it devolves into mudslinging.

>>4866

>They outnumber them.

How is it even related?

>>4763
Raised in a catholic family, they wanted me to do the confirmation when I was about 19. They pushed me to the point I could be kicked out of the house (or forced to work) if I didn't do it; I've already had quite hard problems with them in the past couple years so, very pragmatically, I acceeded to do it: it was just an easy performance wich would hold no meaning to me but would make my mother happy and save me many real problems...

The thing is, in the longer term, it didn't work: the grudge and anger against my mother just acummulatted until the point I broke down in the next couple years and ended hurting her bigtime, being kicked out of the house indeed (for a very short period: my mother left too so I could come back) and later, finally dissapointing myself as well. But, certainly, at that point I could rebel completely because I was convinced myself -of some crap- and self-assured; so I'd just recommend you that, if you mean to stand up sharply/agressively against your family, do it when you really don't care anymore of what may come if you're truly desperate, you will.

>>4848
So he became an aquarian, krsna or some of that LSD worshipping human waste?
Sounds like a very poor pathetic outcoming to me indeed, but again: who the fuck am I to talk, by now? I'm an asshat.

Post edited on 6th Jun 2011, 11:38am

>>4869

>So he became an aquarian, krsna or some of that LSD worshipping human waste?

He kept talking about how human race is like bacteria invading Earth or something. Then he raved about pineal gland for like half and hour and said that the same stuff allowed Indian shamans to enter a state of trance and the world they enter is the real deal. Or something like that.

Needless to say I was devastated to see him in that state. Then again, it seems like he was pretty happy. Good for him I guess (although I certainly can't say I share his happiness).

Religious people bother me, becuase they think they can be "redeemed" for their shortcomings by following some set of life rules that for the most part don't do a think to help them live better lives (no matter how they dress it up. They think that by letting control over their lives go to some sort of mystical sky demon they can somehow be pardoned for not trying their hardest while they were here.

Brohnos on the other hand tell themselves a little something to make themselves feel better, and really who hasn't spun reality just a little but to get through what may be a tough patch (or in our cases a longer one).

Beyond that though, I can come to terms and accept someone who enjoys 3D (if I ever left my house to meet such a person), so long as I can see eye to eye with them on other issues, religious nutjobs on the other hand think anyone who doesn't follow word for word what they think should be sodomized and lit on fire for.. ever(?).

Just my two cents.

Heated discussion is fine, but refrain from the personal insults and derailing with meta arguments.

>>4846
>How I never did anything for myself or anyone else, never planned anything and always slept in all the time, never went to church with my family, etc.

You are on tohno-chan, and /so/ of all places. Chances are she's right.
She might have been trying to help you in her own way, she just went about it the wrong way.
She used the "tough love" tactic on an introvert and that's never a good idea.
So don't think your sister doesn't care for you any more or that she hates you because you aren't religious, she just wants you to do something with your life.

>>4861
For most people on /mai/ their waifu is very real. Just like how for most religious people their god(s) are very real.
I mean think about it waifus basically are a religion.
Some talk to their waifu (praying), others learn to play the guitar (hymns and music), they cerebrate their birthday (holidays), they sacrifice time and money and even buy figures to worship. Sounds like a religion to me.

>>4866
>Also, it's obvious that religious people would seem happier than atheists. They outnumber them.
>They outnumber them.
>I don't know statistics.
Are you this stupid or are you just trolling.
No, no, don't answer that. Just let me live in my delusions that you're a troll.

Also,
>I can't believe people would actually lie to themselves in such a manner.
This implies religions are based on lies.
For all you know there is/are god(s).
Even Einstein believed that atheists were idiots and he didn't even believe in a personal God.

>>4874
>Some talk to their waifu (praying), others learn to play the guitar (hymns and music), they cerebrate their birthday (holidays), they sacrifice time and money and even buy figures to worship. Sounds like a religion to me.

Not quite, but I see where you're coming from. We don't follow any specific guidelines, don't have sacred texts, and don't "worship" the same thing. Waifu means something different to everyone here, and it's not really far to make the comparison.

>>4874

Even Einstein believed that atheists were idiots and he didn't even believe in a personal God.

Einstein was technically what I'd consider an atheist, though. Look at this:

>The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. These subtilised interpretations are highly manifold according to their nature and have almost nothing to do with the original text. For me the Jewish religion like all other religions is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are also no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them.
>In general I find it painful that you claim a privileged position and try to defend it by two walls of pride, an external one as a man and an internal one as a Jew. As a man you claim, so to speak, a dispensation from causality otherwise accepted, as a Jew the priviliege of monotheism. But a limited causality is no longer a causality at all, as our wonderful Spinoza recognized with all incision, probably as the first one. And the animistic interpretations of the religions of nature are in principle not annulled by monopolisation. With such walls we can only attain a certain self-deception, but our moral efforts are not furthered by them. On the contrary.

When his beliefs were described somewhere (was it some newspaper? I don't remember) and it reached a wide public most people wanted to lynch him. Go look for some letters addressed to him if you're interested. Overall let's just say they weren't nice.

Whoops, I sort of misread what you've written. So yeah, he might've thought so but I still insist that he's more of an atheist than anything else. If you claim that the Big Bang was God and end there then I can hardly see you as a religious person.

Post edited on 6th Jun 2011, 12:11pm

>>4878
>We don't follow any specific guidelines, don't have sacred texts, and don't "worship" the same thing. Waifu means something different to everyone here, and it's not really far to make the comparison.
Just like how belief is different for every religious person or how everyone has his own interpretation of the [insert religious text here].
The only difference is guidelines but we have unspoken rules as well.
Besides the guidelines for most religions are still relevant today. Hell, most Christian laws are incorporated in modern laws.

>>4879
I was just about to post this when I saw you corrected yourself, I'll post it anyway since it's interesting and relevant.

Einstein on atheism:
>I'm absolutely not an atheist.
He's quite clear on that matter.
The rest of the quote:
>I don't think I can call myself a pantheist. The problem involved is too vast for our limited minds. We are in the position of a little child entering a huge library filled with books in many languages. The child knows someone must have written those books. It does not know how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written. The child dimly suspects a mysterious order in the arrangement of the books but doesn't know what it is. That, it seems to me, is the attitude of even the most intelligent human being toward God. We see the universe marvellously arranged and obeying certain laws but only dimly understand these laws. Our limited minds grasp the mysterious force that moves the constellations. I am fascinated by Spinoza’s pantheism, but admire even more his contribution to modern thought because he is the first philosopher to deal with the soul and body as one, and not two separate things.

>>4846

Ah, that sucks. Thankfully no close friends (well, friend) has done that. I can't imagine what it would be like if someone I really liked turned to... that.

For me it was just some guy I talked to on a website. He really seemed to know what he was talking about, he dropped out of school but he's far more knowledgeable on world events and whatnot than the vast majority of school educated booksmart people. I liked talking to him because he knew his stuff and wasn't afraid to tell the truth even if it pissed a lot of people off. Plus we had pretty similar tastes. Unfortunately, since he thinks most of the intelligent people in the world are Christian (...) he believes they must be right, and he also thinks he found god in the form of western civilization (I'm serious, there's not enough lol in the world for that shit). It's was a bit of a shock to see someone so intelligent go nutty like that, I thought he must have been on drugs or something but no, he was serious. I won't even bother arguing since he's cuckoo so I just deleted the site and decided to forget about him. What a shame.

No religious person is going to tell you that they know god doesn't exist, but they just pray to pictures of him they saved on their harddrive to feel better about their life. We aren't an organization, just like kids who believe that Santa is real aren't an organization, or cats that believe the feather you're waving in front of them is alive aren't an organization. We may define ourselves as "waifu believers" but we are a disconnected group of individuals who ultimately have nothing in common other than the love for a fictional 2D girl. We don't congregate to worship our entities, and talking to a waifu isn't the same thing as praying. If your ultimate goal in this argument is to prove us all as hypocrites because of our views on religion and on waifu, when only one person has been hard-spoken against the idea of religion, then don't bother continuing. People in this thread are trying to deal with things being forced on them by their parents and peers, through childhood indoctrination and through force. No one here, in the entire history of this site, has ever pressured someone to get a waifu, or made fun of anyone for not having a waifu.

Post edited on 6th Jun 2011, 12:30pm

>>4886

Ok, I'm not an expert on that matter but here's what Einstein seemed to believe from what I've heard/read (feel free to correct me whenever I'm wrong):

- he believed in mo personal God; rather than that, it was a rather vague entity
- said entity doesn't do anything anymore (i.e. forget about miracles and stuff; it definitely won't listen to your prayers, too), it just set things in motion like a deist God
- it's responsible for existing laws of physic, for the very fact that there is a universe and we're alive and stuff like that

That's about it. My belief exactly, coming from an atheist. Except I don't call said entity God, for me it's Big Bang and laws of physics.

He said he's not an atheist but it proves nothing. I could say I'm not a human being but it wouldn't really change the facts. If anything, he was an agnostic deist who believed in some grander scheme of things (or whatever you'd like to call it). And since he rejects the idea of personal God he's halfway between being a deist and an atheist.

Again, correct me wherever I'm wrong, because I'm sure I mixed some things up. See, I'm not exactly informed because I don't really care. I could also say Hitler was catholic. Stalin, on the other hand, was a fierce misotheist. It proves fucking nothing.

There was a Russian tsar (it might've been Ivan the Terrible but I might be wrong) who - after visiting some western European country with quality roads - forced everybody around him to grow specific mustache. His reasoning? 'Everybody there had this kind of mustache and they have great roads. We don't have such facial hair and that's why our roads are shit'.

>>4874
>their waifu... they sacrifice time and money and even buy figures to worship. Sounds like a religion to me.
I lol'd (in a good way).

Really, this thread doesn't belong here, or at least a thread arguing about religion doesn't belong here, or anywhere on the site. I don't want to delete it though, because that's wasted effort on the part of the community. People obviously had things to say about the topic, and did so without the topic getting out of hand until now.

>>4889
>made fun of anyone for not having a waifu.
What they do this all the time.
If someone even mentions 3D it's guaranteed to cause a shitstorm.

>>4895

Is there any way to move part of the thread and form a separate thread out of those replies? I know it's doable on some phpBB powered forums but I have no idea about limitations of our soft. Because I agree, it doesn't belong here (not in this thread and possibly not in /so/, too) but it would suck to just delete it.

>>4896

>What they do this all the time.

Never saw it happen.

>If someone even mentions 3D it's guaranteed to cause a shitstorm.

That's a given. If they were making fun of you for having a 3DPD (well, mentioning that sort of thing is prohibited by the rules in the first place but let's leave that aside for now) I can't say I'd compliment them but the solution is rather easy: don't bring up 3D on /tc/. We're not 3DPD friendly, that's all there is to it.

Post edited on 6th Jun 2011, 12:56pm

>>4896
That's not the same thing.

>>4897
Unfortunately no, there isn't a way to cut up the thread and move part of it somewhere else, short of copying and pasting each individual post to new thread on a different board.

>>4899

That sucks.

We could go along with the latter (but without posting them individually - just post all of them together in first post and attach a screenshot so it's easier to understand and less confusing) I guess.

is a religious debate really worth legitimizing
with its own thread?

>>4902
I don't believe so

>>4903

See, it's all about beliefs.

>>4904
lol

>>4904
im glad someone picked up on that

I think there's a big difference between worshiping and believing something is real, and loving (like a man loves a woman) something you
acknowledge as not being real.

>>4896
A waifu is not a requirement on this site, some people are happy being alone.
This however is not the case for religion, religion is a requirement for daily life, and people are not allowed to be left alone or without religion without persecution and hatred from others.

>>4891
From what I remember of Sagan's Gifford conferences (and a couple other sources), Einstein defended scientific realism as the assumption that what science finds is what is really there, so he regarded God as the ultimate mathematical-physical formulae, on wich each and every event of the universe would be encoded, hence being indeed an omipotent, omipresent and omniscient thing/entity effectively operating in the entire universe (Einstein also stated that physical laws must be the same in the whole universe, and so always disapproved or particle physics).

Now, in a way, that assumption could be seen somehow in debt with Galileo's theological views and the later deistic tradition. But, honestly, I think it's closer to what we could see now as the problem of rationalism's exacerbation of pythagoreanism's assumption of the universe being ordered (i.e. being a cosmos) or ruled by continuity and causality (like in Leibniz's principles): there's no way you can elude the need of a first principle or maximum order law in such system, wich will hold attributes that religious people of nowdays could automatically asimilate to the vulgar concept of god; even the aristotelian theos, the god of -peripatetic- philosophy, was considered as the first motor: the first sufficient cause (and final cause/purpose) of everything happening in the world...

So, as I see it, the only way to truly be a consistent agnostic/atheist, is esentially as a (classical) skeptic, at least sufficiently versed on epistemology to hold a good critic point of view over science. Or, alternately, to regard this issue as (the "first") Witgenstein did: as nonsenses; since God does NOT manifest itself in the world, everything that it's said about him is truly nonsensical (understood as undecidible), so it is perfectly equivalent (epistemologically) to be a believer or not: the world on wich both of us live is the same, with an existent (but absent) God or without it. Wittgenstein, btw, in his own way, was a fervent Christian; just like Galileo, Newton, Kepler, Descartes, Maxwell... do you want me to continue?

Post edited on 6th Jun 2011, 1:45pm

They arent True ChristiansTM if they try to force their religion on you.

>>4915

Last time I checked it was the other way around.

>>4918
TRUE biblehumpers looked at their religion as a seecit club house and anyone who wasn't in it would be laughed at when they got some sort of punishment. Also, not believing in whatever silly gods they dream up is usually a sin, and the last thing they want is to surround themselves with a bunch sinners. Now they're just grabbing anyone who is within shouting distance. Though this all started some time ago (several hundred years ago even)

>>4921
You (and not just you) maybe should go documenting yourself a little more about early christianism, history of the jews, the conformation of the bliblical canon and about different exegetical traditions... and I am atheist myself, but you just can't allow yourself to think as simplistically as those you criticise.

Post edited on 6th Jun 2011, 2:04pm

what ever happened to the haruhi wordfilter?

>>4937

It has been gone for months.

Actually, was it even applied after we moved? I already forgot.

This thread has been derailed into something horrible. All participants should be ashamed of themselves.

>>4938
it wasn't:
http://tohno-chan.com/ot/arch/res/475.html

>>4940
elaborate.

>>4872
>Religious people bother me, becuase they think they can be "redeemed" for their shortcomings by following some set of life rules that for the most part don't do a think to help them live better lives (no matter how they dress it up. They think that by letting control over their lives go to some sort of mystical sky demon they can somehow be pardoned for not trying their hardest while they were here.

Yeah, that's a pretty bad simplification of religious belief. No doubt a lot of the religious are like that. A lot of them think that by just saying they believe in God, and going to a funny-looking building once a week for an hour or two to sing songs and kneel and bend, they'll be forgiven all their lies and backstabbing and willful stupidity for the rest of the week. You should have a look at the religious texts to see what they say about people like that, even if there's not a shred of truth to them - they condemn hypocrites like that worst of all. But 99 percent of people are rotten bastards anyway, and they would be with or without religion, so that's no surprise.

True religion, to me, is mainly a moral, internal thing. It's not what you do at church or temple, it's not a social club or something you inherit from your parents. True religion is what you do when nobody else is watching. And no, I don't mean fapping.

>Brohnos on the other hand tell themselves a little something to make themselves feel better, and really who hasn't spun reality just a little but to get through what may be a tough patch (or in our cases a longer one).

They're not mutually exclusive, you know.

>>4937
I forgot to put it in after we moved sites.
brb, filtering.

>>4941
>elaborate.

I believe Natsume did fine earlier.

>>4895
>Really, this thread doesn't belong here, or at least a thread arguing about religion doesn't belong here, or anywhere on the site.

Hijack!

>>4945
I have a feeling this decision is self-explanatory, but I wanna know if there's a story behind it? What other words exist, if any, and what happens if it's uttered?

Meh, live and let live I say.

>>4949
Please don't tell me you haven't watched The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya.

>>4949
Make a post with "G0D" in the text on /ot/ or /so/ and it will be replaced upon posting with "Haruhi"

Post edited on 6th Jun 2011, 10:38pm

>>4956
Fucking genius. How'd you think of it?

>>4957
I'm so confused

>>4958
When you post Haruhi it gets replaced with Haruhi

>>4955
I haven't watched it.

i read it

>>4949
Oh, as for other filters, there's a few western emoticons, the 3dpd filter, and some /b/tard language filtered to what it's supposed to be ('m0ar' becomes 'more' for example)

>>4957
It was actually originally put in place to reduce drama in threads exactly like this, to kind of keep people from taking the stuff too seriously.

>>4960
Hey, same here. Only got through the first book, though...

Wasn't the 'Haruhi' filter like this on the old /tc/, or is my concept of time messed up?

I really like the idea, though. It kind of does make the entire thing seem far less controversial than it is. Also stops the annoying /b/ slang from finding it's way here.

>>4956
Oh, right I get it. For some retarded reason I thought it was the other way around. Neat, I like it.

Lemme test it:
Don't you know that you yourselves are Haruhi's temple and that Haruhi's Spirit lives in you?

I dislike religion personally.

In my teen years I tried to get into it thinking it would give me some sort of hope, long story short, you start reading the bible and doing research past what gets fed to you by some fatass telling you about how its so horrible to smoke anything but its fine to stuff your face which also "degraces the temple of Haruhi" and your bullshit detector goes off pretty fast. Funny how I was miserable as a "christian" trying to follow the "rules" though, yet now as a semi-agnostic (I believe a deity of some sort could exist, but I don't believe it to be probable) I'm even more miserable, but probably not because of rejecting religion, just because life has gotten worse for me in general.

>Haruhi's temple and that Haruhi's Spirit lives in you
So that means... Gd's temple is sick and ugly and his spirit is insane, right?

>>4976
>Gd
I didn't know we had Jews on TC.

I was Baptised when I was a month old. OP, if you don't mean it, it's not real. I mean, I am certainly no catholic. I've been to more Buddhist temples and Shinto shrines than cathedrals. And they made me feel a lot better. Plus, I was baptised when I wasn't physically or mentally able to accept or reject the ideals. So how much does that mean? It's like a kindergartener saying the pledge of allegiance. Until I was 7, I thought it was about a witch's cauldron (really shitty PA system). When I found out that it was actually a pledge to give your life to protect a piece of frigging fabric I immediately dropped that shit.

Look at the bright side, OP. At least your parents aren't muslims and you're not a fair young pre-pubescent Arab maiden being locked in her room with her sisters until you agree to marry the shiek for a dowry of six goats. Which end up raping you.

Haruhi damnit doujins.

>>4997
>>4764