That concept was used in the novel "John Dies at the End", and I think an episode of Star Trek: Voyager.

So yeah, I do know what you're talking about.

Nope

... Absolutely, yes:
Authentical life isn't the one lived for-the-death (or for those to ever come).
Authentical life isn't the one lived as if we've already died.
If life it's all equivocal, the authentical life would be the one lived as if we've never been born.
If life it's all equivocal, the only good thing to ever do, from the moment we're born, it's to die.
Death isn't a thing to do: we don't live to experience death.
Good life, in the world, it's simply unattainable.

you could just stop going out and stop talking to people

>>1293
We somehow already do that, living as anonymous hikkis; but sorrow/guilt/remorse/selfhate persist.

>>1293
I don't have any friends, but I still live with my family, and I don't go outside.

>>1295
Same. If I vanished the only people who would notice would be my immediate family.

It'd be nice if suicide wasn't such a taboo so that you could sit down and have a rational talk about it with your family. Tell them that you've thought long and hard about it and come to the conclusion that life just isn't for you, and to thank them for everything they've done for you up until now. For them to smile at you and hug you and wish you the best as if you were doing nothing more than moving to a foreign country. To hold their hands as the light fades from your world and then not be upset by the events, to just consider it a natural outcome.

>>1297
I wish it could be like that. when I even joke about killing myself my parents get mad at me ;_;

>>1297
>>1298

If I remember well, that was an option in pagan Rome. It was shown on the movie Caligula and one of my most beloved (and widely recognized) past teachers, at college, mentioned it as well. Apparently, some aristocrats did bleed themselves to unconsciousness and death, on a hot water tub, in company of their friends and favourite slaves, music etc (wich sounds a lot like the romantic portrait of Marat's death, painted by David)...

It was like the final act of dignity for a man, to choose the moment for his own death on his own will. I most likely agree with that point of view.

>>1299
It was an option, but from what I understand they generally took this course when it was offered as an honorable alternative to execution, or as redemption for some kind of crime or guilt, where their family would save face because of the suicide and keep their assets. They also practiced euthanasia. For people our age, though, I'm pretty sure suicide would have been just as unacceptable as it is now.

>>1300
>people our age
I quite see your point... But that is exactly the origin of the problem here, isn't it?

We live as hikki/NEETS because we, somehow, got fully stuck. We are guys who, while being at the age wich should be the peek of our physical capabilities and the start of our further intellectual development, have given up on everything out of a general disappointment. We aren't kids anymore; we should be already what they call men: productive/contributive/supporting members of our community, heading towards getting a steady job and a steady partner to rise a family with, and hence give continuity to this gigantic picture of society. The initial shame on our families and ourselves is that one: to be a burden, to be a total failure (even in terms of breeding, since we gave up even on real women and most sorts of physical/direct relationships)...Yet, when asking ourselves why then do we keep on living like this, the answer it's quite obvious:

Because it's still our best choice; because contributing to what's going on out there is likely unnaceptable; because it's all about domination, injustice, playing roles we don't mean to accept and ignoring fallacies we can't conceal. We feel like shit... but we know going back out there wouldn't be any better, but all the contrary...

And thus, we get suicidal; and try to think about it further, as well, and make threads on the subject to test our conclusions among the closest thing we have to partners: our brohnos.

Or am I all wrong?
Because I tend to be always wrong.

I've thought about it several times. Anymore its like I don't want to waste the effort to commit suicide but I'm tired of living. I live day to day to play a shitty online game. I feel like its the only thing I'm good at... When I think about that it makes me feel even worse. I just want to fade out...have everyone slowly forget me...or go insane... I feel like if I go insane I'll quit struggling with life and will just snap into the sadistic person I am deep down...maybe I already have and don't realize it.

I also constantly think about what if I died here? Or what if I died there? and then afterwards I regret doing something that may have saved my life... a recent example is recently on my way to college two days ago I got into a car accident after hitting a patch of ice--nearly hit another car, sideswiped a telephone pole and stopped after I went over a ledge where there was a drainage pipe with the car nearly having flipped. I had been wearing my seat belt at the time, which is pretty much the only reason I survived with no harm at all to myself... I tend to wear or not wear it depending on how I feel but I can't stop asking myself why was I wearing it? I've also previously had strange urges to drive head on into other cars to my death but I never would... at least the car I totaled was 7 years old and only costing more and more money since it was in the shop every other week. My parents go on about being "so glad I'm okay" but I feel strangely disappointed with the whole matter...

Is there any way to perfectly fake a accidental death? If there was I'd think it'd be with poison in food, if you did it right you could possibly poison yourslef and make it look like food poisoning...provided they don't see any symptoms and force you to the hospital first.

I don't want to die because even though my life is worthless at least I take enjoyment in playing computer games until I die naturally.

In my opinion, you own your life, and your only obligation is to respect the rights and lives of others.

A true painless and rapid death would be nice indeed. Jumping off a cliff or putting a bullet in your head is not a painless death but at least once you're there you can't go back so you don't have to worry about pain because it will be real sudden anyway.

Life is short compared to the eternity of death so I guess I can put up another 50 years of suffering. I want to at least have the choice of when to die, don't think I live past 50 anyway.

Serial Experiments: Lain
...basically. Except that she never died, but I guess she could fix that if she wanted.

Please don't commit suicide

>>1306
I have no reason to live. Why should I suffer for your own sake?

I think you should suffer for your own sake, to become stronger and for the hope that you'll find happiness later in life, for surely for all but 1 or 2 of you there is still some hope. However, what I am saying will fall on deaf ears. For someone whos adamant on dying I hope they will figure things out for themselves, at any rate they're not going to listen to some guy form the internet, hell, even I don't listen to me. Death is cruel both in effort in raising you wasted and potential wasted. If you do decide to die and actually do it, I hope you do it in such a way that makes your death useful. Perhaps die for science, and help researchers find cures for diseases that are killing people who don't want to die. Perhaps donate all your organs. Perhaps do something silly that will make people around the world laugh, like cartwheeling into a lion enclosure in the zoo with pieces of meat strapped to you. But don't die after years of life support after being found covered in shit and piss and in a coma inside a carbon-monoxide filled car. Dying without a net positive impact is essentially a dick move, and I hate you not for killing yourself but for being an asshole.

Just as there are many different causes for suicide, there are innumerable different moral judgements of it throughout history. Plato and Aristotle both viewed as morally wrong, and more important, an offense against the State. Plato held out some exceptions to this rule, giving examples of extreme circumstances and the case where “when one's mind is morally corrupted and one's character can therefore not be salvaged (Laws IX 854a3–5)”. This is most common cause of modern suicide, and the impetus for suicide prevention.

For some of the ancients, like the Stoics, suicide was admirable, if it was for the right reasons.. It's no surprise that many Stoic philosophers, starting from it's founder Zeno, chose this option. The Stoic Epictetus writes “Is there smoke in the room? If it be slight, I remain; if grievous, I quit it. For you must remember this and hold it fast, that the door stands open”. I suspect that this attitude gave the ancient Stoics comfort in that they always had at their disposal a noble “way out”. The Stoic Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius also uses the smoky hut analogy, quipping “The hut smokes; I move out”.

He also points out that suicide must be done in a dignified manner, and not with the “theatrics” shown by the Christians who were being martyred at the time. He writes; “What a soul that is which is ready, if at any moment it must be separated from the body, and ready either to be extinguished or dispersed or continue to exist; but so that this readiness comes from a man's own judgement, not from mere obstinacy, as with the Christians, but considerately and with dignity and in a way to persuade another, without tragic show”.

The Roman Catholic Church, starting with St. Augustine, has always taught that suicide is ethically wrong, and morally evil, without exception. This interpretation remained unchallenged until the Enlightenment age, and the advent of modern psychology.

>>>1302
>
Is there any way to perfectly fake a accidental death? If there was I'd think it'd be with poison in food, if you did it right you could possibly poison yourslef and make it look like food poisoning...provided they don't see any symptoms and force you to the hospital first.

I think about this too. If I could die a painless death and make it look natural, then that'd be cool. It'd still leave my family sad, but they won't be filled with shame and blaming their selves like they would if I made it an obvious suicide.

That, and I don't really even want to put in the effort in killing myself. It's not like I hate life or think "man nobody understands my pain ;_;" or anything like that. I just feel it's better to go now than later.

>It'd be cool if there was some kind of "super death" that erased any trace of your existance from the world.

What would the point of that be? When/if commit suicide, I want to take as many with me as I can. Perhaps crashing an airliner into a building (yeah, I know it's unoriginal, but I can't think of anything off the top of my head right now.) or perhaps set off a portable nuclear device into a highly populated area. You see, when you live a life of goodness and die later, nobody is going to remember you. But kill thousands or millions and your name will echo for years to come. The more people, the more years. Make use of your suicide if you're going to do it.

If I had to commit suicide, it would be in a badass way. Like fist fighting a bear, cause if I died, mission accomplished, but if I won the fight against that bear I would have something to live for. I'd be that dude who boxed a bear and won.

>>1313
You know something amusing? I wrote a long post about doing that same thing the other day and deleted the text and gave up on it. It's nice to see I'm not the only one who thinks that way.

>>1314
Fighting a bear is just common sense once you think about it for a bit.

>>1312
A lot of people aren't concerned with going out in a blaze of glory. They're just disappointed with their lives and feel that they've let everyone down: their family, their friends, the world. They feel like they're just a burden that no one could possibly care for but must still deal with. Conventional suicide would only make these problems worse, wasting all the energy they've put into you so far, forcing them to clean up your mess afterward, and probably even making them feel sad and guilty afterward, even if you think that they shouldn't. The problem for these people is that there's no way to go quietly without hurting those they're so ashamed of failing. "Super death" solves that issue. It'd be like they'd never been born.

>>1316
what if you told your family you were going overseas to study and become a monk and that you couldnt be contacted

>>1316
Sort of agree.

>>1312
>>1313
>>1309
Why would you want to be remembered for something negative/stupid?
Why would you want to be remembered, in the first place, if you consider you've lived such a worthless life to be comitting suicide, now?
By all means: why do you strive to be rememberd anyway? it's a bit like attention-whoring to the end and beyond, don't you think?

I'd just kill myself because I've had enough shit, from the world and myself; I think it's pointless/lame to try giving that final surrender a further meaning.

>>1316

Beautifully written. I feel just as you do. Unfortunately, since this isn't really a possibility, I've long been trying to figure out a way to make a suicide not look like a suicide, like the other person was trying to figure out. While things like potassium cyanide claim to give a natural-looking death, the near-impossibility of it to get hold of (I've tried enough times) rules it out. When I have the energy for it, I wander around town at 3am hoping to come across some violent thugs who will do me the favour of putting a knife-shaped hole through my chest if I manage to wind them up though, but lately I've been just too tired to bother.

The times I feel most utterly disgusted with myself are when my parent is late getting home and a small voice in the back of my head starts to say in a hopeful voice "maybe something terrible has happened and you'll finally be set free." Almost as if I'm wishing misfortune on the very people whose presence stops me from doing anything to myself, just so that I can selfishly leave this cage without feeling guilty about passing my misery onto someone else. And that in turn just makes me feel like even more of a self-hating angsty emo faggot who should just die already.

I don't believe there are ways to kill yourself without passing on your misery to your family, short of making your family hate your guts. If you truly want to die without passing on your misery, then make them hate you. Otherwise, you are just entertaining yourself with interesting suicidal thoughts. Tell us how you go with this, or whether you decide not to kill yourself.

>>1316
>>1321
>Why would you want to be remembered for something negative/stupid?

It's not so much to be remembered. Think of going out with a bang as revenge. Revenge to those, who've not only brought you up for selfish reasons, but have also had ambitions for you which you never shared. Your parents likely wanted you to be a doctor or a lawyer or something of the sort, but you never wanted that, did you? And failing to accomplish this objective made you feel worthless even though it was not your choice to pursue it in the first place.

The pressures of one's family and the pressures of society in general are the reason for the downfall that is suicide. In order to truly be satisfied in the end, one must carry out vengeance and spread misery and suffering to a large amount of people. The larger - the better. Of course, few have the means to do it and are often times too lazy/unmotivated to acquire them.

To sum it up:
If you're going down, drag those responsible for it down with you.

>>1324
This attitude, I believe, is unethical and selfish. Not only do your parents have the best of intentions (some exceptions notwithstanding), inflicting pain upon other human beings is detestable EVEN IF they have done the same to you.

It cost a huge amount of money to raise and support a child to around our age (18-25). According to Wikipedia estimates range from $125,000 to $350,000. That money doesn't come from nowhere, your parents have to work for it. Creating that much money takes several years worth of work. When you think about it, they are sacrificing their own lives to allow you to live yours. All they want in return is to see you thrive, succeed and be happy. You committing suicide and dragging them down with you is their repayment?

>>1333
>This attitude, I believe, is unethical and selfish.

Somehow, I seriously doubt he gives a damn.

>>1333
>inflicting pain upon other human beings is detestable

The majority of humans have no problem doing that to each other on a daily basis.

>>1335
Not in the slightest.

>>1337
>The majority of humans have no problem doing that to each other on a daily basis.

Excellent point.

>>1339
And that is why we should keep doing it.

>>1345
Seems like a good idea to me.

But of course, I spent hundreds of hours thinking about stuff like that.

It's unfair, isn't it? Nobody ever asked me if I wanted to be born and now it's hard to simply cast my life aside just like that. Not because I don't want to, of course, but because of my relatives. I know how my mother feels about me even though I'm the wothrless piece of shit I am. It's sad, really. Sometimes I wish I had bad parents who would just kick me out and that would be it for me.


>>1297

>It'd be nice if suicide wasn't such a taboo so that you could sit down and have a rational talk about it with your family. Tell them that you've thought long and hard about it and come to the conclusion that life just isn't for you, and to thank them for everything they've done for you up until now.

Actually I was very close to telling them that just a week or so ago.
But I think it's not only your parents or your relatives in general. It's hard to find people you could talk to about stuff like that, even thought everyone will die sooner or later, no matter whether they want to or not. I really wish I could just ask a friend of mine (well, if I had any friends) 'hey, what do you think, should I kill myself this Sunday or should I wait till February?' and receive a proper response after some discussion. It's hard to have something you'd really like to discuss with other people without being able to do so. I guess this is what it means to be lonely.

It's even worse since after I unwillingly created quite a commotion with my thread about suicide I tend to wonder whether it's okay to say this and that...


>>1302

>I've also previously had strange urges to drive head on into other cars to my death but I never would

Like many other Brohnos I don't even have a driver's license but I also have such autodestructive urges. I Whenever I'm on a train platform I'm really scared I just won't be able to control my body and I'll simply jump when the train will be passing. And other stuff like that. I tend to avoid knives whenever it's possible, too.

>>1332

>The times I feel most utterly disgusted with myself are when my parent is late getting home and a small voice in the back of my head starts to say in a hopeful voice "maybe something terrible has happened and you'll finally be set free."

Same here. I'm the guy who wrote on the old /tc/ about my mom contracting a cancer and that I felt ambivalent about it. She's fine right now and every now and then I think 'well, too bad'. One who thinks like that of someone who loves him, cares about him and would do pretty much everything for him really must be a among the lowest scum on Earth. I know I am.

>>1374
>Whenever I'm on a train platform I'm really scared I just won't be able to control my body and I'll simply jump when the train will be passing. And other stuff like that. I tend to avoid knives whenever it's possible, too.

Yeah, that's why I would refuse when my dad started trying to take me to target shooting or whatever it is he was doing when he got "into" guns as a hobby. I know that feel.

Bah, I'm not to suicide level yet. I wouldn't do that unless my situation got to the point I couldn't support myself at all. However I honestly wouldn't care about how my immediate family would feel.

If there was a so called super death though, I'd consider doing it now. Not because of guilt or disappointment or whatever. I just don't want to live what people consider a "normal" life. Unfortunately that's the only way to live here, else I'm pretty much dead. And I'd rather die quickly/painlessly than on the streets.