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File 130303107672.png - (212.94KB , 500x366 , GameofThrones-Title-Tease.png )
5416 No. 5416 [Edit]
Just reminding those of you who might be interested that AGoT's first episode will air today. I doubt this thread will get many replies (if any) but I'm kinda curious to see if the adaptation is any good so I might as well start one.
The first season will cover the first book and is supposed to span over 10 episodes (airing on weekly basis).
Expand all images
>> No. 5417 [Edit]
I'm interested too. It looks like it has a great cast, at least from the names I recognize.
>> No. 5496 [Edit]
I am downloading the first episode from http://www.irfree.com/?s=thrones

/tg/ recommended the site for it, and I just wanted to share it.
From what others say, it got the characters down really well. The only complaint were that 13 year old Dany was played by a 20+ actor, but c'est la vie.
I look forward to it.
>> No. 5497 [Edit]
Might be worth a watch.
>> No. 5505 [Edit]
Dany has nude scenes. So there's not much they can do about that.

I thought it was pretty good, I'll keep watching it.
>> No. 5507 [Edit]
After watching the first, it struck me that this was the first motion picture with English dialogue I've seen in what feels like ages. That aside, it was a wholly enjoyable adaptation of the novel series. My complaints regarding it are simply two in number. As a forewarning, I'm not well-versed with the movie making industry, so what might be a praise from me may indeed be complimenting something exceedingly basic all movies and such use, and, thus, not much of a compliment at all.

Complaints coming first, I felt the way they introduced characters was somewhat lacking. Even I, who had read the books, albeit quite some time ago, had a hard time placing the actors to their characters. Some, like dear Tyrion or Sansa, were very easy, but it took me too long to realize who Snow was. It would have been better if the actors addressed by name the person they were speaking too. For me, I didn't even realize the actors in the beginning with the wolf were, in fact, Ned and his sons. Ned, I got, but my understanding that his sons were with him there too didn't come until the handing of the pups.
For a viewer who had not read the books to know, at least, what characters there were to watch for, or, for example, that the king's queen had a twin brother, or that their family numbered the queen Cersei, Jamie, and the dwarf Tyrion, it would have been very difficult, I feel, for them to keep up.

The second complaint was exactly the same as I said I heard another complaining of >>5496 here. While, hearing that complaint the first time, I felt it was said solely out of lust, after watching the first episode, I understood what the original poster meant exactly. The actors were too old. Granted, this being the Western world, I can understand why the directors and such were averse to using actual 13 year olds for Dany and Sansa, particularly Dany, who is shown nude multiple times, and I understand they likely wanted to avoid using off-camera scenes regarding Dany, but I still couldn't help but feel the images of the actors and the images of their parts were too off. Well, to be frank, the actor playing Dany was, in my opinion, too chubby (Pardon me, "healthy" for a 13 year old, and had much too plain a face for the great Daenerys Targaryen, and it was exceedingly jarring to see the actor playing Sansa say she was only 13 and hadn't had her first period yet. Also, so as to not solely complain about ugly women, Jon's actor was too old as well. Though he did have nice hair, seeing, what I believe was, a mid-twenty year old actor play Jon's immaturity regarding his willingness to give up his home and family for a lonely life on the frozen wall felt too with this adult saying the lines. The discrepancy between their projected roles and how the viewer perceived their roles was too great, in my opinion. Oh, on a somewhat related note, I thought it really odd that Drogo had really white teeth. You know, for a Dothraki...

But enough of my complaining about the actors' looks. The first episode managed to nail the personalities and characters of the various characters extremely well, I felt. My favorite, Tyrion, was portrayed really appropriately as the raunchy halfman he was, though they haven't had the opportunity to show the other side of his personality, and they haven't betrayed Cersei's true character yet as I feared they might. I do think that they haven't given Ned the amount of endearment to the viewer as a reader would have gotten from the books, but perhaps more of that will come in the following episode. They did, I feel, do properly with Catelyn's personality, fleshing it out as the caring wife really fittingly. Also, though I don't believe he has had any lines as of yet, the actor to play Joffrey was perfect for portraying his character. Handsome, but a bit stuck up, just by looking at him. I feel that Sansa's gushing over him could have had a bit more weight to them, but was still, overall, greatly done to depict her character.

The opening bit with the map of the land was really well animated and it had me smiling all the while seeing the game board open up like that. The music was notably suitable as well, and I have to applaud the lack of censorship for a family-friendly show. To put it simply, this show is gratuitous in its presentation of, as one other viewer put it, "tits, ass, and sex." Or he could have said gore, rather than sex. I can't remember.

Nonetheless, it was extremely atmospheric to see sex held in such little regard, as opposed, perhaps, to the good Christian movies out today. I felt it really helped portray the king when they had him gripping, slapping, and groping the ass of the fat lady serving drinks, all while his wife watched. That, and, naturally, Tyrion's scene with the whores. Though, concerning that, maybe my memory of the books is foggy, but I thought it odd to see Jamie and Tyrion act so brotherly in that scene. Like I said, I could be remembering the books wrong, it has been some time since I've read them, but I was certain that Tyrion, least of all, hated Jamie almost as much as he hated Cersei.

Characters aside, I was really impressed with the detail put into the setting and props. As I said way before, this may be wholly natural to shows now, but I, at least, was impressed at how they showed the barren winterlands without being too overbearing with it. How they dealt with the dead also impressed me. The bloated, severed parts of the wildlings, and that I could even see maggots crawling on the face of the mauled deer, I felt, really helped with the impact of the scenes of death when they occurred.

Personally, I can't wait until Lysa and Littlefinger show, but that will probably be quite some weeks from now. Indeed, with this next episode, I hope they deal with it properly so I can feel my heart bleed once more as the axe bleeds.
>> No. 5508 [Edit]
Jamie and Tyrion are on good terms, they didn't get that wrong. And the age thing did bother me, but it's only natural when you're adapting a series like this for TV, all the sex and violence etc. Though it was weird that they had a much older actress for Sansa but tried to pass the character for 13 anyway. Anyway, the first episode was better than I expected, so I'm happy.
>> No. 5517 [Edit]
Why didn't they use violet contacts for Targaryens? It bothered me all the way through. Quite a disappointment, too.

Apart from that:

- Lannisters all looked perfect, especially Joffrey - I really felt like punching him in the face!
- Starks are good; Hwoever, Catelyn looks rather old and Arya was supposed to be ugly; Jon and Robb are absolutely FABULOUS (I'd hit them) and Sansa looks like the dumb bitch she is. Was she a redhead in the books, too? I always though she's blonde.
- Robert is as fat as he's supposed to be - no complaints here.
- I saw it on TV so I can't check it again but I think the Hound was rather good looking. I hope I'm mistaken here.
- However, Theon looked terrible and nothing like I imagined him. He wasn't the least bit handsome and that's what I'd expect considering how much of a player he is.

Overall, I feel they nailed the cast pretty well (except Theon). The acting was ok, too. I have no complaints here.

With Jon and Robb being this fabulus I CAN'T wait to see the Knight of Flowers.


>For a viewer who had not read the books to know, at least, what characters there were to watch for, or, for example, that the king's queen had a twin brother, or that their family numbered the queen Cersei, Jamie, and the dwarf Tyrion, it would have been very difficult, I feel, for them to keep up.

Wholeheartedly agreed. I'm not sure whether anyone who hasn't read the books was able to follow who's who and what exactly is happening. It's especially bad considering the last scene and the fact that Jaime appears in two scenes prior to that one - I bet some people didn't even realize it's Jaime and Cersei (well, Cersei should've been easy enough). Also, I'm not sure whether they realized who Bran is.

>The actors were too old.

I disagree. Sansa looked rather old, yes (she looked like she was ~5-7 years older then Joff), but I think Dany looked her age. Even though Robb and Jon might've looked a little old that's how they are depicted in books. Apparently, people mature faster in Westeros. I'm not sure whether there's any good genetical explanation for this but that's how it is.

As for the 'she's too ugly' argument - well, they ARE 3D. It can't be helped.

And as >>5508 said, Tyrion and Jaime are on very good terms. When (spoiler from book 2 incoming) Jaime gets captured Tyrion is constantly worried about him.

Overall, I thought it was a TERRIBLE adaptation. The acting was good but the direction was just plain shit. I'm afraid I couldn't have been done much better, though. I never realized how much is explained through narration in Martin's books. They managed to go around it only twice, in the scene Jon and Tyrion talked (when Tyrion pointed out Jon is a bastard - otherwise, nobody who hasn't read the books would've known) and when Catelyn informed Ned about Jon Arryn's death ('I know he was like a father to you'). Also, changing the locale every two minutes destroyed the flow. It might've worked well for the books but in my opinion it should've been somehow changed for the series. I understand that they want to stay faithful to the source material and I admire that but in this case it just can't be done right.
The whole thing felt terribly rushed, too. The pacing was all over the place. The books would've been 100 pages long if they had removed the whole narration.
As for the props, yes, they were good and convinving. However, the panoramic view of Winterfell desytored the mood completely. It looked like some kind of futuristic city from a scifi movie, not a fortress from a fantasy book.
And as >>5507 pointed out earlier, I bet people had no idea what's going on. Especially the scenes with Targaryens must've made absolutely no sense to them.
It's a terrible adaptation that can only appeal to people who read the books. For them it might be good (I enjoyed it) but that's all it is - fanbase pandering. Nothing more to see here, just 'wow, my favorite series finally got adapted'.
>> No. 5519 [Edit]
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I must say I did enjoy it. I don't think there's any point in comparing it with the novels, we should take it as it is. It's well made and looks good so I'm not complaining. Freaking Sean Bean, man.
This guy is so fabulous, he makes the character likable. I remember hating him with a passion in the book..s? I don't remember what happened to him, I think he died or something.
Also, you're not going to see loli semi-rape on TV, even if it is HBO.
>> No. 5520 [Edit]

>Also, you're not going to see loli semi-rape on TV, even if it is HBO.

That scene with Danny looked a little different in the books, tho. She wasn't exactly willing to do it but in the end she even sort of encouraged Drogo (as if he needed it).

>This guy is so fabulous, he makes the character likable. I remember hating him with a passion in the book..s? I don't remember what happened to him, I think he died or something.

Viserys was one of my favorite characters. Very life-like and believable. As for what happened to him... Drogo killed him. I honestly haven't EVER raged that hard at a book before. If it hadn't been that expensive I would've torn it to shreds right then. In a way you could say that Viserys got what he deserved and I would have to agree. He was weak and miserable, a fool living in his delusional world where he was a beloved king. But Danny didn't do jack's shit to save him. He was an asshole to her but he was her goddamn brother. Even though he treated her like shit she wouldn't have survived a single day without him. And in the end, she was just calmly sat there and watched as he begged her to save his life.

>I don't think there's any point in comparing it with the novels, we should take it as it is.

I'm rather unwilling to do so as I would have to say it's just plain shit if I had to look at it that way. Otherwise it's not-that-bad if you read the books (I pity all the people who will watch it even though they didn't read the novels).
>> No. 5521 [Edit]
>That scene with Danny looked a little different in the books

Yep it was totally different. I kind of remember Drogo almost splitting her with his huge pOnOs, she ended up liking it if I remember correctly though. But yeah I mean they're not going to show almost a preteen having sex with a huge burly savage, older looking Dany can't be helped. She looked pretty moe anyway.

>Very life-like and believable.

Yeah that's true, no denying that he was a great character, but that still didn't keep me from raging when she treated her like shit. You're right though, she wouldn't have survived. I can see him being a favourite in the show though, the actor is pretty awesome.

I don't know, I view them as completely different series so it doesn't really bother me if they end up messing it up. I'll enjoy it.
>> No. 5523 [Edit]
I don't remember any mention of Arya being ugly. She's just a tomboy who hates dressing up and doing needlework, and everyone compares her to her older sister.

As for Viserys wasn't it implied in the book that he abused Dany? The whole "wake the dragon" thing I mean. It would at least kind of justify Dany's not doing anything to save him in the end.
>> No. 5524 [Edit]
Implied? It wasn't outright stated? He fucked her, beat her, and even in the episode itself he stated to be completely fine with letting 40000 men and horses fuck Dany if it meant getting what he wanted.
In the books, he constantly cited how Targaryen's inbreed, and so he can do whatever he likes to his sister. "Wake the dragon" is both a euphemism for "Do not make me angry, bitch" and a play on their blood, as Targaryen's are said to have descended from dragons, or something like that.

I've no idea why the other guy liked him, I thought he was a self-righteous asshole, and I didn't think it odd at all that Dany didn't try to save him since she felt more protected and, perhaps, loved in Drogo's arms than she ever did with Viserys
>> No. 5525 [Edit]

>I don't remember any mention of Arya being ugly. She's just a tomboy who hates dressing up and doing needlework, and everyone compares her to her older sister.

I think she was called 'horse-face' for a reason. Also, when Ned was decapitated and that Night's Watch guy found her he kept calling her a boy. Of course, later on it was justified as there are no women in Night's Watch but initially he actually thought she's a boy. I think some other characters were confused, as well (other than other boy's who wanted to join Night's Watch). Even if you say she was just dirty, uncombed etc. you'd think he'd be able to tell if she was pretty (and I'd say the actress that plays her in the series is rather pretty, of course by 3D standards only). Also, when they ended up in Harrenhal everyone called her 'weasel' and I think it's related to her looks, too.

>wasn't it implied in the book that he abused Dany?

If you mean abused as in used violence against her then yes, it happened. I still fail to see it as much of an excuse, especially considering all that happened on that day. Viserys was killed because he breached a law he knew nothing about. He was drunk. He begged her to save his life. And yet she only thought to herself 'if he were a real dragon he wouldn't have died' and she was wondering why she's so calm.
>> No. 5526 [Edit]

>He fucked her

I don't remeber anything of this sort. Targaryens married their sisters (it's their old custom) so it wouldn't be that weird but I'm pretty sure nothing of this sort happened. It might be just my bad memory, though.

>I've no idea why the other guy liked him, I thought he was a self-righteous asshole

But of course he was. But he was believable and I had some sympathy for him, as in the end all he wanted was to get what he believed rightfully belonged to him (and no matter how you look at it, it's true).

I just like well-written characters. You don't see them that often, you know.
>> No. 5530 [Edit]
I don't remember Viserys ever doing anything in particular to Dany in the book, but the implication was definitely there given her reactions to his threats, and also given how much of an asshat Viserys was in general. I might be forgetting something.

No question he's well-written, though. Like most of the characters. And he's not one dimensionally evil, he does have a legitimate claim and he's pathetic enough to maybe feel sorry for sometimes.
>> No. 5834 [Edit]
Watched the second episode. I like how the adaptation is turning out. Most of the actors are really good, especially the guy they got to play Tyrion and his first scene where he triple bitch-slaps Joffrey for being such a little shit. So satisfying

They also managed to shove in some more backstory, but I still can't help thinking the only reason I know what anyone's talking about is because I've read the books already.
>> No. 5841 [Edit]

Tyrion is great so far. So is Joff. SO. ANNOYING.

But I still feel it's a really poor series so far. Taking away all the narration completely kills the mood for me. Especially the back-and-forth jumps. It's okay if you do it every 10 pages. It's not if you do it every 5 minutes.

Also, the changes between the source material and the adaptation begin to appear. For example I'm 99% positive Catelyn said 'it should've been you' when Jon visited Bran. It might not seem like a big change but I feel that it was very importnant. Also, Mormont's reason for being where he is has already been revealed. It took a long ass time in the novels. And so on and so on. Nothing plot chaning but the presentation is vastly different.

I'm really disappointed so far. I'm not even sure whether I'll watch next weeks episode.
>> No. 5849 [Edit]
It's definitely not perfect so far, but there are some difficulties with fitting the series into a TV format anyway. Seeing how they're trying to shove the entire first book into one season, and the book jumps to a different perspective every chapter, it's hard to see how they could do it otherwise. As for that scene in Bran's room maybe they were trying to not make Cat out as too much of the "wicked stepmother" at the same time the audience is supposed to be sympathizing with her (even though she comes off pretty badly.) Not a good idea if that's the case, considering how almost none of the characters in the series are made out to completely entirely positive or negative. If they decide to smooth the characters' sharp edges just to make the audience comfortable it's going to turn out badly.

Well, it's only two episodes in. I think the acting is holding it up pretty well so far. Whatever happens though, I'll keep watching it just to see how it plays out.
>> No. 6158 [Edit]
- hoooly shit, a whole episode without a sex scene!
- they might as well rename the whole thing to Accents: The TV series. Not that I'm complaining, I love accents.
- kids can't act. Neither Sansa nor Bran were convincing in the first scenes
- that gandma who told Bran this supposedly terrifying story was amazing
- I already liked Syrio in the books but now I liked him even more
- Viserys will probably die next week, I'm already ebginning my mental preparations but it might not be enough - Don't Wake the Dragon
- also the differences in storytelling between the series and the novels keep piling up but I'm too lazy to mention all of them
- and last but definitely not least: there were no subs for this show this week in my country. I raged, hard. I'm not used to spoken English.
>> No. 6187 [Edit]
Syrio was awesome. I wonder how much longer he'll be around. The shit doesn't hit the fan for the Starks until near the end of the book, right?

This episode just kept hitting me in the face with plot points and jumping from place to place, even more than the last two did. It felt pretty disjointed. People who haven't read the book might have a hard time following all the 100+ characters getting introduced.
>> No. 6274 [Edit]
regarding Viserys, ep 6's title is "The Golden Crown". So there you go. His actor is fantastic, it's a shame he has to go so soon.
>> No. 6291 [Edit]
Just caught up last night. I barely watch television, so maybe my impressions are naive, but I thought all the actors were impressive enough. My only real complaint is that the adaption feels like it is moving too quick, and cutting out some of the fluff scenes that serve to establish character. For example, I don't really get the feeling that Catelyn is overprotective of her children, or that Jon and Aria had the connection that they had in the books.

I suppose that's all due to the limitations of the medium, though.
>> No. 6340 [Edit]
They're definitely skimping on some of the scenes, especially this episode. Jon and Arya just got the one scene together before he leaves for the Wall. And the part where Viserys gets humiliated and has his horse taken away was weird. It doesn't explain why Dany stops the horde, or what she's doing walking around by herself, or why Viserys rides up to her like five seconds later and starts screaming at her. Plus the fact that in the book she's the one who commands him to walk, but in the TV scene it's one of the bloodriders. I thought that was supposed to be an important character-building moment for her, and they left it out.
>> No. 6877 [Edit]
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Watched the first two, getting the third as I write this. So far I'm hooked, although I haven't read the source material so I don't know what I'm getting into. I think it's the first time I've seen so many raw nude scenes in a (american) series, this deserves plus points.

I must say the accents are hard for me who isn't a native English speaker, anyone know where to find subtitles?

>People who haven't read the book might have a hard time following all the 100+ characters getting introduced.

I think it's okay so far, although I didn't understand that introductory scene yet or what meaning it had.
>> No. 7408 [Edit]
I didn't pay attention in the books, but did this Roze whore get that much attention?

In the show, it seems like every noble and his son has fucked redhead Roze with the big tits.
>> No. 7413 [Edit]
I'm pretty sure she didn't. But Shae's going to take over the whore character slot soon anyway, unless Roz is replacing her. They've left out/merged a few characters already, like the Blackfish, so I wouldn't be surprised.
>> No. 7423 [Edit]

Yep, it's getting changed pretty heavily. If you read the books fairly long ago you won't notice the small details but with each episode it's getting further and further from the source material.

Dropped. I thought it's gonna happen for a long while now but I lost interest. I think it's a rather subpar adaptation overall.

As for ep 6 (I haven't seen 4 and 5 tho', just parts of it):

- the scene where Bronn (or whatever his name is - I'm honestly to lazy to check it) fought with lady Arryn's knight was totally changed. First of all, in the novels they fought on the morning of the next day. Also, that knight was supposed to be old, as he lost due to his lack of stamina rather than Bronn's superior skill. The whole fight was supposed to be longer, too. And - most importantly - everybody was chatting happily in the novels. They were sure that this knight can't lose to a lowly mercenary and when Catelyn remarked he doesn't look too well the other knights criticized her and told her that women are bad at judging this kind of thing.
- the scene in the forrest (with Barristan, Lancel, Robert and Stannis...? it was Stannis, right?) didn't happen in the novels. I don't remember it and I checked it last night (as I wanted to know who was it that dared to talk to Robert like that) and I couldn't find this part at all. Who was it, anyway? If it was Steffon his behavior was weird, I don't think he'd say that kind of thing. If it was Stannis (and judging by lots of things - espeically his clothes - it seems that's the case) there are even more questions. Did he even visit Robert in the novels? I thought they hated each other. Why would he agree to hunt with them? Why did his older brother look 20-30 years younger?
- I never realized as much but Viserys might've felt that it's his duty as a Targaryen to get the throne back. I always felt it's just his superiority complex but maybe it was a burden for him, too.
- and of course the Golden Crown scene. Even though I was prepared for what's about to happen I still almost threw the reomte at my TV. Then I turned it off and walked around my room for some 5 minutes to calm down a little. I didn't think I'd rage this hard. When I saw a rerun last night I tunred it off before it happened because I thought my reaction will be the same even though it would be my third time. And I'm a calm and collected guy, too. But fuck, everything that happened there... Fuck Daenerys, I might watch the ep when she miscarries just to see that stupid bitch crying.
>> No. 7430 [Edit]
>- the scene in the forrest (with Barristan, Lancel, Robert and Stannis...? it was Stannis, right?)

It was Renly. As in the books, Stannis isn't in King's Landing and probably won't show up until the second season. Renly himself is somewhat different. Supposedly he's this really charismatic guy who everyone loves, but so far he's just come off as kind of whiny. And they're making Loras into a sort of Lady Macbeth figure for him - in ep 5 he urges Renly to go for the crown after Robert dies, and I don't remember that from the books either. And after that, Loras blows Renly. So yeah, they're not going the subtle route with their relationship either.

The trial by combat bothered me a little too, for your reasons plus another one - they never even mention that Bronn is a mercenary. For all we know he's a minor knight tagging along with Catelyn's party, or a hedge knight or something. The nobles watching the fight even criticize him for fighting "without honor", but what else would they expect from a mercenary? Weird.

>- and of course the Golden Crown scene.

I hated Viserys in the books, though I still think he got a raw deal in the end. But the actor playing Viserys made him so much fun to watch that this scene kind of pissed me off too.

A lot of the changes I don't have much problem with; I understand they had to make some tweaks for the adaptation and to accommodate the budget. But they do seem to be getting a little off course.
>> No. 7431 [Edit]
also: Stannis is the middle brother. It's easy to forget because he acts like an old man, but he is younger than Robert, probably the only reason he just barely tolerates working under him.
>> No. 7433 [Edit]
I thought R. R. Martin was working on this as well? I'd have a bit more faith on the guy. Maybe we'll get back on track very soon.

Of course they're going to change things since this is TV adaptation.
>> No. 7435 [Edit]

>It was Renly.

Wow, I went full retard there. I trusted my memory too much. Steffon must've been their father, right? Because I thought it's either Stannis or Renly, I just couldn't remember the name.

>As in the books, Stannis isn't in King's Landing and probably won't show up until the second season.

I know, he's on that island. But I thought maybe he showed up because new Hand was appointed. Or something. I read those novels long ass time ago.

>Renly himself is somewhat different.

Yeah, that's why I was surprised by his behavior. I think he'd laugh at Robert's remark. He is a playful (like pulling out an apple when he met Stannis in book 2) hedonist, too. Maybe not in that kind of way but even Robert noted how much he likes costume balls (or something of that sort). Maybe he'd get a bit ... abashed? But I can't imagine him raging this hard.
That explains his looks. But clothed in all black? That man who came up with Rainbow Guard? Doesn't suit him at all.

>And they're making Loras into a sort of Lady Macbeth figure for him - in ep 5 he urges Renly to go for the crown after Robert dies, and I don't remember that from the books either.

Wait, what?

>And after that, Loras blows Renly.


>A lot of the changes I don't have much problem with

Judging by what you've writted I began to have lots of problems with this.

As for the Viserys thing - he probably deserved to die. I'm not going to argue about that. The way he died was too harsh but that's not the point either. What pissed me off was everything about Danny. Come on, he was drunk, he wanted what was promised to him, then he begged her for his life on her knees and she didn't even shed a tear for him. Even if he wasn't a 'dragon' he was her goddamned brother. On top of that she would've liong dead if it wasn't for him.

>Stannis is the middle brother. It's easy to forget because he acts like an old man, but he is younger than Robert, probably the only reason he just barely tolerates working under him.

Oh, I got confused. I thought Stannis was older.

>I thought R. R. Martin was working on this as well? I'd have a bit more faith on the guy. Maybe we'll get back on track very soon.

He is working on it. Can't remember what his role was exactly but at very least they're consulting him. He might've even written the storyboard. Again, I'm too lazy to check it.

>Of course they're going to change things since this is TV adaptation.

I understand they're changing the presentation 0 order of scenes, dialouge and such. I don't mind. But messing with the plot is a bit too much.
>> No. 7436 [Edit]

It was subtle in the books, but quite a few hints were dropped about their relationship. Characters joking about how hard it would be to set up a marriage for Loras, Jaime threatening Loras that he'd shove his sword "someplace even Renly couldn't find" (something like that anyway.) And the night before Renly's big battle with Stannis, he and Loras stayed up all night "praying", as Loras put it. It was never outright stated, though, which is why that scene bothered me. Chalk it up to HBO wanting to throw in more sex as usual.

>I read those novels long ass time ago.

It's a lot of stuff to remember, there are so many characters and plots and sub-plots. I tore through the whole series about six months ago, so it's mostly fresh in my mind.
>> No. 7437 [Edit]

Well, I'm either retarded or my memory is just bad. Maybe I noticed, maybe I didn't.

As a matter of fact, I just read tons and tons of spoilers. I pretty much dropped the series after the second book. Lots of stuff made me rage left and right so in the end I decided it's better to give up.

Robb dead, Catelyn dead then revived, Theon possibly dead, Joffrey dead, Tyrion marries Sansa then kills his father, Arya joined Faceless Men, Sansa under Littlefinger, marriages and divorces left and right. Holy shit. But overall, I don't regret not reading them.
>> No. 7439 [Edit]
It's a good thing you didn't make it to the Red Wedding. You probably would have torn the book up right on the spot. I really hope we get some revenge payoff for that like we did with Joffrey.
>> No. 7441 [Edit]

I think I would've been fine with that. I never really liked Starks - especially Catelyn - so for me it would've been an awesome plot twist. What they did to Robb was pretty glorious, too. I actually think I would've liked that.

What bothered me was how women were objectified left and right. The white knight in me raged each time. Now that I think about, it's surprising I made it through two books.

I'm not really complaining, tho'. I understand it's part of the setting and it looked like that everywhere up to ... 200 years ago (well, it wasn't as bad back then, but if we're talking medival there's pretty much no difference)? I just didn't like it and I decided to stop there.
>> No. 7443 [Edit]
Huh, really? I didn't like those characters either, especially Catelyn, who actually does a lot to fuck everyone over with her selfish, thoughtless actions. But what the Freys did was pretty outrageous even by asshole backstabbing standards. I still like Roose Bolton though, he's a pretty cool guy.

As for the women, I didn't really get that vibe. There are a lot of strong female characters - Arya, Asha, Dany (as irritating as she can be), Melisandre (same), Brienne, etc. I guess women were talked about in terms of sex objects quite a bit, but those were mainly from some of the male characters' points of view, where that would only be natural. But if the writing makes you feel uncomfortable then that's just how it is.
>> No. 7444 [Edit]


Turned into Winterfell's plaything after she was captured.
Leave it to me to forget characters names and make myself look like a retard. Asha defnitely counts.


Sold to Drogo as if she were an object.

Don't remember much about Melisandre to be honest (I remember she was that priestess who turned Stannis 'evil' - now that I think about it she also is kinda Lady Macbeth-ish - but that's about it).

The truly asertive 'warrior women' - Arya and Brienne - were ugly. Overall, I sort of think it says quite a lot about Martin. Also, he has two sisters - quite funny if you consider the amount of incest going on in the series.

Arianne would be a better example than those five I think. I can't imagine her being married to Viserys of all people, though. She would murder him.

Post edited on 26th May 2011, 6:34am
>> No. 7473 [Edit]

>Turned into Winterfell's plaything after she was captured.

I thought that was Theon. Unless I missed something.


>Sold to Drogo as if she were an object.

She really comes into her own after Drogo dies, before the first book ends. After that I don't think you can accuse her of being that submissive, although she does get misled by other men along the way. Can't argue with the rest, although I still don't see how Arya is meant to be really ugly. Her older sister calling her ugly doesn't mean much considering their relationship, and everyone else considers her sort of plain. Not that her looks will matter after she finishes her elite assassin training.
>> No. 7474 [Edit]

Damn. I edited that post twice.

First, after I realized I confused Asha with that woman they that tried part of the group who tried to abduct Bran and was later captured (her companions were killed, one by Robb, the other by Theon).

Then, I did it again to fix something else and forgot to strikeout that part about Winterfell's playing again (hence the 'Leave it to me to forget characters names and make myself look like a retard').

So yeah, Asha is defnitely a valid example. At the same time, I feel she wasn't choosen at the Kingsmoot because she is a woman.

>I still don't see how Arya is meant to be really ugly.

Let's switch 'really ugly' to 'not good looking'. I'd just rather not argue about it again and I never felt she's supposed to be hideous. She's just not as good looking as a well groomed lady from a Major House should look.
>> No. 7476 [Edit]
Fair enough. Didn't realize you were talking about the wild woman, but she's just one letter off from Asha. It was pretty bullshit she didn't win the Kingsmoot, I would have voted for her.

My only real point was I didn't feel the women of the series got a bad deal, as far as character is concerned. You could definitely make a case with Cersei, Catelyn and Lysa as more or less incompetent matriarchs of major houses, but I think the men have fared about as badly on balance.
>> No. 7482 [Edit]

>My only real point was I didn't feel the women of the series got a bad deal, as far as character is concerned.

I agree. That's not what bothered me.

I wanted to write a long reply and specify exactly what bothers me and give you lots of examples of said problem but I think a single sentence will do just fine:

What bothers me about ASoIaF is that all women are treated like cumdumpsters. That's all there is to it, really.

And this is coming from a misogynist mind you (well, maybe a misanthrope would be closer but I still think that no matter how bad men are there might be some decent ones out there; decent women only exist in fiction).
>> No. 7499 [Edit]
Sure, that's true. But it doesn't bother me, at least partly because it's an alternate medieval setting where women being treated as objects makes sense. And I like seeing how the female characters respond to their treatment in their own ways. Some of them let themselves get carried along, like Sansa, or they reject it totally, like Asha and Arya. Some of them have real, legitimate power bases, like Stannis' wife (forgot her name) even with her husband being the hardass he is. etc.
>> No. 7882 [Edit]
Anybody still watching this? I just caught up. I'm actually pretty damn surprised at how quickly they are blowing through the first book/season. At this rate, it should be wrapped up by episode 10.

This is a little worrying, as I don't want to see them catch up to the currents books too fast. If they do that, we'll have nothing to watch for years, since GRRM writes with all the speed of a hurried snail.

Also, fuck yeah Littlefinger. He was my favorite in the books, and he's still my favorite in the show. That scene in the brothel house with the two whores was pretty powerful. I was cheering his ass on while he did his little soliloquy. www sorry for bumping without really saying anything of note
>> No. 7883 [Edit]
Waiting for episode 08 here. I also had the feeling they were rushing through the story pretty fast. Roberts death was wrapped up in 5 minutes.
>> No. 7884 [Edit]
In the books, didn't Ned go see Robert at least a couple of times before he finally kicked it? I suppose it makes sense that he died very quickly in the show, as I felt it was sorta dragged out pointlessly in the books. I mean, dude did get fucked pretty bad by that boar.

Another thing I wanna bitch about is the political intrigue. Personally, I feel it's a little dumbed down in the show. For instance, that scene where Arya overhears those two in the dungeons is still unresolved in the books, while we already know exactly who it was, and what they were talking about in the show. They could have at least took a little pains to make their identities ambiguous. I suppose it just can't be helped. The lengths that GRRM goes through to spin webs is just insane, and can't be mimicked through t.v.
>> No. 7921 [Edit]
It's a problem with perspective. Since we're seeing the scene through Arya's eyes in the book and she doesn't know who these people are. It's harder to do that sort of thing in the series. Same deal with Bran seeing Cersei and Jaime in the tower, in the book they're just "a man and a woman" and we don't find out until a bit later who they definitely were.

Episode 7 was pretty good, except for that whore scene. That was pig disgusting. And it went on way too long. And I'm not sure I liked Littlefinger's speech either. He was spelling out all his motivations and reasons for doing what he does, when he could have just left it to the audience to realize that this guy is a shifty motherfucker. It should already be clear to them that he lied about Tyrion and the dagger.
>> No. 7932 [Edit]
If I remember correctly, the two men talking in the dungeon were actually just shadowed. It's part of why the fandom still hasn't reliably pinned down who was speaking. I don't have my book on hand, so I can't fact check that though.

I sort of agree on Littlefinger. In the books it takes a long time till you realize that his motivations are fueled almost entirely by fucking Catelyn and Sansa after her death and even then, dude still has tons of tertiary goals. Having him spell it out is a little cheap, but I think it's still in character. It's not like he suddenly became a bad cartoon villain who spilled all the beans in a lame monologue; he still has assloads of secrets and motivation left to reveal.

I don't really think the show is bluntly hitting you over the head with his shiftiness either. They've done a fairly good job of hugging the books, with very little added scenes to clarify things, but maybe the breakneck pacing they are setting is reinforcing it rather unsubtly.
>> No. 7934 [Edit]
Yeah, it feels like they're trying to shove as much into ten episodes as possible. I think they've done a decent job of it so far, and I like most of the original scenes so far (Jorah vs. Viserys with the dragon eggs and Tywin and Jaime last episode especially.)

I heard they're going to cover A Clash of Kings next season in ten episodes too, though. The plot goes into full swing at the beginning of that book and there are still lots of characters to introduce or replace, considering the pretty fair body count in this series. I have no idea how they'll pull that off.
>> No. 7984 [Edit]
File 130740927749.jpg - (27.34KB , 624x352 , Spoiler Picture.jpg )

Even if you've dropped the series, do yourself a favor and watch episode 8. There are so many badass moments in this one. Barristan's dismissal, Robb going to war and facing down his unruly vassals, Drogo cutting a guy's throat out through his neck. And of course Syrio beating a bunch of armed and armored Lannister goons' asses with a wooden stick. Picture related. I can't wait for next episode.
>> No. 7985 [Edit]
Waiting for torrents warmly. I would have already watched it via stream, but the quality was dogshit.
>> No. 7989 [Edit]

Fuck yeah Syrio. I was waiting for this moment. Gotta catch some reruns today.
>> No. 7995 [Edit]
Just finished watching the latest episode a couple of hours ago. I have no real complaints or praise, except the scene where Arya stabbed the stable boy was way too quick and sudden. In the books, it was a really important deal, and Arya was broken up about it for a little while. Here, she just stabbed him and daintily ran off.

I suppose I might be jumping the gun though. She might still get all emo and introspective in the next couple of episodes.

Also, am I the only one annoyed that Ghost makes noises? It's such a minor thing, and I feel pretty autistic even mentioning it, but it bothers me.
>> No. 8003 [Edit]
Yeah, that whole scene was weird. Arya's first kill should have had more weight than that.

The Ghost thing bothered me too. Maybe they couldn't find another albino dog, or whatever that thing is, and the one they had just wouldn't shut up? Or maybe it was an oversight.

I really hope they get Ned Stark's execution right next episode.
>> No. 8012 [Edit]
Syrio was STYLIN HARD. I'm somewhat disappointed, though, as he killed some of them in the novels.
>> No. 8270 [Edit]
File 130798823482.jpg - (31.91KB , 400x536 , 1304041936924.jpg )
Just watched episode 9.

I have read the books so I knew it would happen, but it still got to me.
>> No. 8273 [Edit]
Oh lord no. Tell me this isn't the episode where Ned loses his head. I'm bout to be mad as fuck if it is. I couldn't stand when that little shit Joffrey gave the orders in the books, seeing his sneering visage in person might make me punch the screen.

Waiting for torrents so Haruhidamn warmly I'm about to combust.
>> No. 8281 [Edit]
It is. Just finished it and it was a great episode once again. Shame to see Sean Bean go so quickly.
>> No. 8284 [Edit]
There's a preview for episode 10 (and last episode of the season) here:

>> No. 8305 [Edit]
Just finished that episode.

Rage tears. I knew it was gonna happen, and I knew I would be upset, but that was just too much. It'll be some years, but I will eagerly await the moment that punk Joffrey dies gasping for air like a bitch. Haruhi. I've forgotten what it felt like when I was reading the book for the first time, but if it felt anything like this, I don't know how I got through the whole series. I mad. I furious.

Is it just me misremembering things, but wasn't Tyrion forced to fuck his wife after the entire brigade went through her, and forced to pay a single gold because Lannisters are better or some shit? Did they cut that out, or am I just trippin' here? Also, I'm a little disappointed they skimped on the war scene Tyrion led. I remember him killing a couple of people before being knocked out. I felt that was a little too important to just cut out like that. It shows that though Tyrion is a more intellectual character, when push comes to shove, he can handle his shit reasonably well.

Also, that Arya is just cuter and cuter every episode.
>> No. 8310 [Edit]
The kid playing Joffrey is really good, it makes me want to hit him even harder.

Yeah, they skimped on Tyrion's battle scene. Well, really they skimped on the whole of both battles. They obviously don't have the budget to depict them. Tyrion really should have gone into battle though, that was kind of a thing that Tywin sent him in hoping he'd get killed in the front line, and he isn't. And yeah, in the book Dad forces him to fuck Tysha last. I think they're leaving some bits out of Tyrion's story for some reason, but I have no idea what it could be.

We also never see Ned's dream, which is kind of a big point in the book.

>Also, that Arya is just cuter and cuter every episode.

This, I can't wait for her murderous antics next season.
>> No. 8316 [Edit]
Well, Tyrion does make a quick quip about Tywin's reasoning for sending him into battle. It's excusable that you missed it, though, as the pacing they are setting demands they cut out some of the bonding scenes.

For instance, I recall Jon receiving Longclaw from Mormont being a huge Haruhidamn deal. In the books, it was like being accepted by Mormont, almost as a replacement for his son. It genuinely gave the impression that these two men had bonded throughout their scenes, and were incredibly close. In the show, they removed all that and made a big hullabaloo about the sword, which, while important, wasn't the focus I feel GRRM was going for. I just don't feel like some of the characters have the tie they are supposed to have for others. There are numerous examples, such as Catelyn's hatred for Jon, Jon's reciprocated love for Arya, Robb's closeness to Theon, etc. etc. I suppose it just can't be helped, with a limit of ten episodes.
>> No. 8326 [Edit]
I think they're trying to make a few characters more sympathetic by doing that. In the book, Catelyn tells Jon he should have died instead of Bran. She's still a bitch to him for no reason in the show, but it's not quite as bad. And Shae definitely seems different, less like she's actually a whore. Possibly to make her betrayal of Tyrion more clear-cut so Tyrion's murder of Shae later on would be easier to take. We'll see.
>> No. 8334 [Edit]
Yeah, I had thought of that while chilling in bed last night. I suddenly realized that the Tywin in the show wasn't nearly as severe as in the books. They make it very, very clear he doesn't give a single shit about Tyrion outside of his status as a Lannister, but in the show, it's barely touched upon so far.

I wonder why they would do that though? What could they possibly hope to accomplish by making some of the more unlikeable characters more likeable? Doesn't that counteract the delicate balance GRRM was going for? He takes great pains to make every character a shade of gray. Committing terribly evil acts one day, but doing good deeds the other. Lessening that cheapens the experience, I feel.

I also thought Shae was way off too. I always got the sense that she was supposed to be young, impressionable, and pliant; of course this was all a whores act, but that's the impression she was supposed to give off. In the show they made her out to be older, experienced, and exotic. Definitely different from what I imagined her to be like.
>> No. 8512 [Edit]
Today's the day, guys. I don't have HBO, so I'll have to wait for shitty stream, or a torrent, but hotdamn am I waiting warmly.
>> No. 8557 [Edit]

What a fantastic finish. It certainly exceeded expectations. I can safely say I am highly anticipating the second season.

I think my favorite part of the series so far is the interaction between Lord Baelish and Lord Varys. Not only is it witty, but you can get a real feel and understanding of the power dynamics in Kings Landing. In a series where every single person's role is uncertain, with their own motivations behind their actions, it is quite refreshing to get these scenes that bluntly remind you of the real backing and power behind the throne, even while they're being readily subservient to the authority.

Far beyond the war, or who's sitting on the throne, you have Littlefinger pulling the strings on just about everything with Varys being the only one wise enough to even comprehend just how far down the rabbit hole goes and being the only one willing to even try and prevent his machinations from overthrowing order. That they remain friends and equals (of a sort,) through this is just icing on the cake. They have fantastic chemistry, and every scene with the two of them together is that much better for it.

Post edited on 20th Jun 2011, 12:47pm
>> No. 8559 [Edit]
Yeah, I've liked their scenes together. They're constantly butting heads on screen in a way I don't remember from the books, probably because none of the POV characters get to see them from that angle. That detaching from the set POVs is one of the nice things about the series.

The KING IN THE NORTH scene was great, I was looking forward to that. And Jon and Dany's scenes were done well too. All in all I'm looking forward to next season. I just hope they don't skimp on the battle stuff like they did this season, because the next two or three seasons are going to be straight up war for the most part.

I really didn't need to see Pycelle doing squats. That was not necessary.
>> No. 8561 [Edit]
Hah, Pycelle doing squats was hilarious. I could have done without the somewhat see-through robe he was wearing though. I could almost, almost see his old man wiener. It was not pleasant.

However, I'm starting to wonder what the purpose of that scene was. In the books, he really is just a frail old man who's easily complacent and ruled, and his role is gradually diminished until he is just kinda there, as a figurehead. What could they hope to gain by showing Pycelle as a more cunning and spry man than he appears to be, when he is destined for this?
>> No. 8563 [Edit]
Pycelle really does bend with the wind. I get the idea that if Ned hadn't been so thick about politics and did what had to be done, Pycelle would have been all behind him and Renly. Maybe they're just trying to set up his part in Jon Arryn's death and the discovery by Tyrion for next season, but I don't see the point.

Also, I'm still sad they didn't get Brian Blessed for the Greatjon, because I completely read all his lines in the book in his voice. You can't win it all. At least the guy they did get is pretty good.
>> No. 8590 [Edit]
File 130867640767.jpg - (58.22KB , 1280x720 , snapshot_31_15.jpg )
It was a great season finale, all of the scenes were great.

Like previously said, the clash of words between Varys and Littlefinger are one of the highs of this season.

I was a little upset about that green dragon's placement, I must say. Not because I wanted to see what was behind but because it was too obvious and awkward.

That scene with Pycelle came out of nowhere and I fail to see how it brings anything new to the table on a season finale, except for showing us that he has his own agenda and he might not appear who he really is at first sight. Those 3-4 minutes could have been used much better somewhere else imo.

Now I can't wait for season two.
>It will be filmed in the summer of 2011 for airing in 2012. The series will tentatively consist of ten episodes.
>> No. 8811 [Edit]
Khal Drogo will be playing the new Conan. Just thought you might want to know, as I didn't.
>> No. 9069 [Edit]
I didn't know. If I ever see it it will be really hard for me not to think of him as Khal Drogo though.

By the way, A Dance With Dragons is out now.
>> No. 9073 [Edit]

>By the way, A Dance With Dragons is out now.

Holy shit, can't believe it was finally published. I didn't think we'd see it this year (yeah, there were some reports and Martin was talking about how it's basically finished but the same thing has been going on for years now).
>> No. 9124 [Edit]
I just now got through part of it. I think I'm disliking Dany more and more. Supposedly she's getting all mature or whatever, but she's still all for condemning anyone who turned against her father when he was king back in the day. Like Lord Stark, whose father and brother her dad burned alive. Not to mention all the other people who maybe weren't so comfortable with having a crazy piece of shit on the throne, not to mention a guy who planned on literally exploding his capital and everyone in it because he was losing the war. Yeah, she'll make a great queen. I hope she fucking dies.
>> No. 9133 [Edit]
I've not seen Game of Thrones, but I'll always see him as Ronon Dex.
>> No. 9334 [Edit]
File 131119217187.jpg - (144.08KB , 1024x576 , thomas-jefferson-1024.jpg )
Just in - Stannis to be played by Stephen Dillane aka Thomas Jefferson from John Adams. He should make for a great Stannis.

Melisandre and Davos also got casted, but I'm not familiar with their actors. Faults aside, the HBO series has got the casting spot on for the most part, so I'm sure they're both good.
>> No. 9591 [Edit]
I just finished the book. My Haruhis, it's so good.

And Arya, oh dear Arya, she's so wonderful. And the politics, and the lion bitch, and the spider, and the crows, but Arya is so great. Why is she so perfect?

My only disappointment was that the flowers in the lion's den weren't expanded on as much as I'd hoped. Dorne as well. I'd like more expansion on their land and governance, which, to me, still remains more mystical and mysterious than the land beyond the sea.

That ending, though. Haruhi damn, those little birds. What is it about a group of child assassins that makes me all excited? First with Petshop of Horrors, and latest with this. Damn, those birds.

I did find that unsavory as well. To her defense, every person of her blood was murdered brutally, even the babe, for no reason but to ensure the rule of the usurper wouldn't be usurped in kind later on.

That said, it's a pretty weak defense. Even just with her knowledge, she should know that men can change, and Ned was the only one against assassinating her. Well, whatever. She's not dead yet, but she's going to be seeing her children suffer in the next book, I wager. Though, that next book probably won't come for another decade.

>> No. 12852 [Edit]
Hi guys. I've got a bit of a selfish request.

Basically some site I found by chance is interviewing GRMM in a week and there's a contest for the most interesting question you'd like to ask him. They'll pick some (it wasn't specified how many exactly) and use them in the interview. Then they'll ask him which he believed were the 3 most interesting ones - basically his opinion matters the most but the question has to make it past 'prelims' first - and whoever asked those will be awarded.

The prizes are hardly spectacular - a copy of the second volume of Dance with the Dragons (they were split into two vols over here and the second vol was published just a few weeks ago I think), audiobook version of Game of Thrones (as in the first book in the series) and AGoT the boardgame (which - to be perfectly honest - is the only item I have any interest in) but hey, anybody can participate and obviously it's free so why I might as well give it a try.

It's obvious that I'm the one who will reap the profits if I were to win (unlikely but again, it costs me only time and I happen to have lots of that to spare) and there's next to nothing for you in it so feel free to ignore me. Then again you don't get the chance to ask GRRM random questions every day so maybe it's worth the effort. Personally, I kinda want ask him about how his sisters felt about the books, as there's quite a bit of incest going on there (then again I doubt they'll let the question slip - shame).

... It feels kinda bad to to bump a thread just to post a selfish request so uh, you could talk about Dance with the Dragons or something...
>> No. 21420 [Edit]
I have been catching up on the second season the Khaleesi scenes are the most interesting so far as always only niggers can think of ruining Qarth the greatest city in all the lands
>> No. 21424 [Edit]
what is GRMM?
>> No. 21427 [Edit]
It's shorthand for George R. R. Martin, the author of the series. The man misspelled it, it's supposed to be GRRM, not GRMM.

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