>>17897

Unfortunately, dubfags are the vast majority.

>>17897
>"Bootlegs are the reason Tokyopop left the US"

Had nothing to do with the terribly low quality translations, printed on toilet paper, and then expecting people to pay just as much for it as they would a soft-cover new release.. only several months/years after the thing was already scanned in higher quality in every possible way.

It's a great example of the bootlegs being higher quality than the original, from your perspective, or if you note the original scanslations came first, Tokyopoop's re-release was the Haruhidamned bootleg.

also, it'd be more accurate to say that the licensors have no respect for the japanese spirit in anime and manga. The greater your understanding of the japanese language and culture, the more the english dub notably slaughters the work. A good example of Thoreau's statement: the only proper way to read (and by extention, watching) a piece in a foreign language is to first learn the foreign language it is written in and then read it as is.

>>17898
lol wut?

>To be honest I think American licensors and especially dubbers are the thing that is keeping people from liking anime

no, you couldnt be more wrong. elitist assholes like you are more likely to stop people liking anime.

>Licensors in the US have no respect for the spirit of anime and manga. They are the ones killing anime and it's sickening. Anyone who watches dubs to me are people who don't like anime

no, you couldnt be more wrong.
to me people who watch fansubs/scanlations or buy bootlegs are not real fans.
imagine how great it would be if all pirates started watching legit streams and buying DVDs. the potential market for anime outside Japan is larger than the domestic market.

>A lot of us do want them to stop, yes.

what the fuck is your problem? this isnt 1997, you can watch your anime DVDs subtitled if you prefer.

>or if you note the original scanslations came first, Tokyopoop's re-release was the Haruhidamned bootleg.

no. your a moran.

>Had nothing to do with the terribly low quality translations, printed on toilet paper, and then expecting people to pay just as much for it as they would a soft-cover new release.. only several months/years after the thing was already scanned in higher quality in every possible way.

no, it had nothing to do with that. its because the entire industry crashed and people stopped buying books. also because the guy running Tokyopop invested in some stupid projects that were doomed to fail.

>>17902
Oh no! It's like we're stealing the hats off of Vic Mingongna's very head! How shameful of us, we need the Fuckimation vigilantes like you here to set us straight! Tell us the superiority of the Strike Witches and Sgt. Frog dubs and subs! Tell us why we should lament the passing of ADV! Show us our horrible sins of complacency!

Also nice, assuming any of us buy bootleg DVDs. I've purchased one season of a show imported, and I can guarantee the original publishers saw more money from me than all the money they get from a person who buys every show they watch from Funimation.

Also, whose Moran are we speaking of? I didn't know any anons owned a Moran.

>>17903
>Oh no! It's like we're stealing the hats off of Vic Mingongna's very head!
well, yeah. you kind of are actually.

what about people like Justin Sevakis, Carl Horn, the late Carl Macek. you dont think they respect the spirit of anime and manga?

>nice, assuming any of us buy bootleg DVDs
nope

>Also, whose Moran are we speaking of?
I was being facetious

>>17905
>>17902
Assuming these are the same people I will address the issues instead of looking like an ass.

Firstly, fan translations. If you had even a basic grasp of the language you understand that the subs you get with official releases are so very different from what is actually being said. The official release is trying to make money, not cater to a specific subculture. We get things like Ika Musume being turned from an interesting show to being diminished to the status of a "wtfjapanseriously.com" blog post. And this happens a lot.

All of the stereotypes people have of Anime stem from dubs. Just watch any western parody of Anime and you see it all stems from the horrible state of official dubs.

If Anime had a definite and large western Market it would deeply affect content. When you have an audience, you pander to it. The reason we like Anime is because it is an entertainment medium that doesn't pander to our respective regions and cultures. Imagine a world where Anime is trying to appeal to the same market as the waters of jersey shore and honey booboo. Sound fun? Because I would kill myself.

The following rules apply to this website and the IRC channel:

...

• Weeaboo Shit. E.g. conventions, dubs and Naruto.

>the subs you get with official releases are so very different from what is actually being said

no, they are not. not really.

to quote a recent post form the anime board: "Often time crunchyroll subs are the best subs for a show"

>horrible state of official dubs
in the 90s and 90s, yes. today, not so much.

>If Anime had a definite and large western Market it would deeply affect content.
good point. but it also affects the budget. if anime makes more money the animators could be paid a decent wage and we would get more big budget movies, companies would be able to take more risks.

>>17909
Some of the highest quality shows I see rarely sell over a few thousand units in DVD/BD sales. And they anticipate this.

Also, a long time ago I would watch fansubs before buying or streaming the official release, and it was literally like I was watching a completely different season with the same animation. It confused the hell out of me. Learning Japanese I discovered the localised subs were very different from the actual dialogue. In some ways it was a stretch. And some dubs are literally like abridged episodes. They try to insert humour where it is not needed, and most of the time it is the kind of edgy bullshit that only fourteen year olds find funny.

Post edited on 23rd Oct 2012, 5:21pm

>>17909
>to quote a recent post form the anime board: "Often time crunchyroll subs are the ONLY subs for a show"

fix't. When there's no competition, obviously the ONLY choice is the best of the available ones. that doesn't mean it's a preferred one.

>>17913
Not to mention the delays, the "THIS EPISODE IS TWO MINUTE PREVIEW ONLY", the ads that could be used to generate revenue to get license to stream more shows but is only used to show the same exact Crunchyroll ad six times throughout a single episode, and only serves to pressure people into getting an account.

It's sad when Hulu is a better streaming service than you.

>>17902

Defending dubs and denouncing piracy? Seriously? Why the fuck are you even here?

Post edited on 23rd Oct 2012, 7:51pm

>>17912
Without the occasional serious discussion or debate, web communities get boring, stale, and dead. Typical thread OP: "OH man, I love this thing so much." Everyone else: "haha yeah me too man." gets SO fucking boring every once in a while. Just because you don't care enough on this topic to contribute well doesn't mean you have to make fun of the people who are honestly expressing themselves and derail this thread, okay bud? Everyone else who's posting shitty troll comments, just please hide the thread or something. I've reported all of your posts.

>Anyway, for my stances

There are two reasons as I see it why a person may buy a product representing an anime/game/whatever character or why they'd buy a game. I think that Shinden9 and I see eye to eye on this topic, so let me say what I think he's trying to get across... feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, or anyone else try to show what flaws or errors I'm making in my reasoning.

First: someone may just really want whatever the good is. I call this "appreciation of the good." I mean, we all have figs, and most of us probably buy them because they look nice or are fun to play with or whatever, right? " This is the same reason why some dumbfucks will go buy Naruto dubbed on DVD or whatever too, because they just wanna get their 'mes and don't know any other way to get them. When people do this, they're following through on their appreciation of the good.

The second reason why people buy merchandise: they want to support the creator, studio, or whatever else if it's an official good. I call this "appreciation of the creator." When someone goes online and purchases an official fig or a licensed show or whatever, with the knowledge that cheaper or free illegal material is available, in a conscious effort to support original artists, I would say that they're following through with their appreciation of the creator.

If you have the money and you want to buy legal or official junk, you do so because you appreciate the creator (as well as just getting the goods too, to be sure). When you spend your money, you're either doing so in a way that says you're using it to more support an original creator OR to just get your crap. Bootleg stuff or pirated shows, as they tend to be cheaper, are obtained by people who want a good; and legitimate goods seem to be purchased (when the choice is presented) by a person who wants to support the artist or creator.

Now, with this kind of decision presented, we can see that people who buy dubbed shows aren't far from the camp of people who buy bootlegged figs or just pirate media. "WHAT! How can you say that, Robert?! I buy my anime here in America because I want to support the creators!" Well, I really honestly don't think you believe that... or if you are, you're a fucking moron. In this day and age, anyone can buy the original work and download fan subs (yes, it is easy. anyone can do this) to watch their anime in a format that's comprehensible to them WHILE supporting the original creators. When you buy licensed and localized shows because they're cheaper for you, you're basically saying with your money, "It's fine if the anime studio doesn't get all of my money (Or almost none, studios don't pay high royalties). It's more important to me that I get my show!" If you're making this compromise so that you can save a few bucks, you're really not any better than the people who buy bootlegged figs or just flat-out download shows, in a moral sense. You're just a greedy guy who wants to feel good about himself.

>>17918
> I've reported all of your posts.

Way to overreact

>>17919
He makes a good point, though.

>>17917
I know it isnt a competition but I will happily lay out my NEET credentials if anyone gives a shit. I am 27 years old. Probably spent more years as a NEET and own more otaku stuff than most people here. I also prefer to watch anime in my native language (English).

>When you buy licensed and localized shows because they're cheaper for you, you're basically saying with your money, "It's fine if the anime studio doesn't get all of my money (Or almost none, studios don't pay high royalties). It's more important to me that I get my show!" If you're making this compromise so that you can save a few bucks, you're really not any better than the people who buy bootlegged figs or just flat-out download shows, in a moral sense. You're just a greedy guy who wants to feel good about himself.

Yes, Japanese prices are inflated, its obvious that importing them will contribute more to the industry compared to buying an American release.

But consider the fact that licensing fees go straight back into the pockets of the Japanese companies, while Funimation fronts the cost for production, marketing, distribution etc. Japan obviously thinks its a good arrangement (except when they dont) and I don't see how its a bad thing to support it.

Even in Japan there are distribution companies that take a cut!

Even in Japan anime is dubbed! (They do the animation and then dub their lines over the top to match the lip flaps) (ok this one is a troll)

What about Japanese companies that release stuff overseas (Bandai/Aniplex)? Do you support them?

While I really don't like the localization of anime, I have to admit, it's a good way to get introduced to anime. I don't think I'd have gotten into anime if from the get go I was handed subs. anime being dubbed and aired on TV made it easily accessible. it wasn't until after it had sparked an interest that I started seeking out subbed anime.
Now I don't watch anything dubbed in English.
though I did give baccano a fair try. it just sucked too bad to listed to for more than five minutes at a time and I just kept bouncing back and forth in audiotracks.

whats better for the original creators is certainly a questionable topic. They don't get very much money from sales of localized versions other than a bit up front for selling off the distribution rights, and maybe some royalties, but it's been said the producers of the original work just don't have the resources necessary to spread the product world wind, even if they'd make a lot more money and cut out the middle man.

I don't really see how anyone can argue about the quality of dubs, they simply crap. Most American voice actors just don't care about voicing over anime, to them it's just the first shitty step in their voice acting career. They only do dubs becuase they couldn't get anything better. America does have good talented voice actors, but they all want to do high paying pixar movies or big budget video games. and boy does it show, it couldn't be more obvious they're just reading off a script and don't give a crap about what they're doing.
The voice work is almost always flat and lifeless. except for 'that one voice actor', every dub has at least one voice actor you can tell is actually trying to do a decent job and overshadows everyone else. It wasn't hard to notice back when all I watched was dubs.
I wont pretend all japanese voice work is good though, while they actually 'try', you can still find horribly done voice acting work in japanese voiced anime, hentai is a perfect place to find tons of horrible voice acting for example. there was also the recent AKB0048 with a case composed of girls who might sing well but can't voice act for crap. and personally I find myself getting tired of the overly high pitched squirrel voices they give little girls in anime, though it's not half as bad as American women doing the same roles.

The problem with official vs fan subs isn't nearly 'as' bad as dubs. The main problem with official subs is the butchered localization jobs they do. People also have a problem with the way they compete with free fansubbers, by not competing at all and trying to shut them down.


As for bootlegs of figures, well, you really can't defend the quality of bootlegs when they have missing parts, backwards parts, parts that don't fit together, horrible lead filled paint jobs, packaging like paper craft and so on. and while I certainly don't want any bootlegs and only have the ones I got accidentally one has to remember that the creators of whatever the fig is based on don't see that much money from it, it's like buying dubbed dvds, you're mostly giving money to the guys that made the fig not so much the anime or whatever it's from. on top of that, there are cases in which I would almost encourage bootlegs, but that's mainly just for cases in which a figure is extremely popular, but the makers are being assholes with it and refuse to produce enough supply to meet a overwhelming demand, even if it means they'll make more money off it. so when something people want shoots up in price just becuase there's not enough to go around, yeah I can't say I'm bothered by bootlegs in that instance.
for example, OP's fig, everyone wants a Konata figma, but not everyone can get one, so whats the harm in bootlegs of it? it's not like the makers are going to profit off people re-selling the official version of the fig on ebay for $200. what does bug me though is when they make bootlegs of common/new figs while the real thing is just barely on the market. in some cases they even get produced before the real thing, such as with the black rock shooter figma if I remember correctly.

>>17918
As much as I agree with the sentiment of you wanting to keep things on the subject, I'd like to ask you if you could do it without being such a faggot.

Localisation is just that: localisation. Companies might have an interest in preserving the original Japanese meaning but making money will always overshadow this. When I was new to anime I didn't know much about the various Japanese concepts and words, and it alienated me greatly. I did find those little glossaries you find in the back of some manga tankobons very interesting and I learned a lot from them, but I can't say the same for everyone who reads them. Also, when I was new to anime, I simply didn't notice things like bad dubs or unfaithful translations. So it would make sense for the company to cut back on things which most viewers wouldn't even notice.

Also can we have an argument here without people insinuating that the other person is an imbecile every second paragraph? Seriously this is Tohno-chan, I thought we were better than other sites. Play the ball, not the player.

>>17936
>can we have an argument here without people insinuating that the other person is an imbecile every second paragraph? Seriously this is Tohno-chan
personal attacks against an opponent's perceived intelligence is what debate on Tohno-chan is all about! You stupid retarded idiot.

Post edited on 24th Oct 2012, 3:46am

>>17922
I actually never pirated a Bandai release. I respected the fact that a Japanese company was opening up a derivative office in the US, and I bought Haruhi, Lucky Star, and the Lucky Star manga. I would get K-ON but I lost the chance because I was poor right up until Bandai Ent closed. That was the one US licensor I was really sad to see go. I hate to say it but... Their dubs were high quality. Funimation should take a hint instead of hiring the same ten people for everything.

As for manga, I do like YenPress. Tokyopop inwas not a fan of, and especially today I am not a fan of them.

>>17923
I agree with this post, and wanted to make a note:

The Erica Hartmann Nendoroid isn't coming out until December this year. Last week I looked her up on eBay, and the Hong Kong sellers already have bootlegs of her listed en mass. It's terrible.

>>17940
かわいい

>>17944
>Last week I looked her up on eBay, and the Hong Kong sellers already have bootlegs of her listed en mass

theyre preorders

>>17950
>bootleg preorders

Based Hong Kong overlords.

>>17967
not all figures sold from hong kong are bootlegs

>>17968
But one should assume they are until proven otherwise.

>>17969
why? because youre a japanophile and everything outside japan is pig disgusting? all of the sellers listing Erica Hartmann are legit.

>>17978
No, because China is a prime location of bootlegs items of all sorts. I know for a fact China is the #1 source of fake coins.

>>17978
Way to speak out of your ass.

It is a widely known fact that the Chinese have bootlegs and duplicates of almost anything and everything to try and pull one over any ignorant/unsuspecting fools not wary enough to do their research. I'm not saying that everything they sell is a bootleg, but a huge majority of the things that they do are.

>>17978
Pretty much what >>17979 said.
I realize not alllll hong kong sellers sell bootlegs, but the overwhelming majority do.
I'm aware of the notion that one bad apple doesn't ruin the bunch, but when the tree is only producing one good apple for every 500 bad apples, you should stop taking apples from that tree.

Post edited on 25th Oct 2012, 3:18pm

>>17978
There is literally no way of getting a seller to tell the truth about whether an item is bootleg or not. And even with sites like eBay, you're SOL if you receive an item and it's a bootleg. You can report it, try to get them banned, anything, and the site will do absolutely jack shit to help you.

Even going to those "otaku stores" that pop up for three weeks in the basements around Chinatown give you bootlegs en masse. Although I did find some good authentic Touhou doujinshi in one.

I even found a site a while back entirely in Chinese, based out of HK, that distributed bootleg figures to online sellers in HK and other places. They charged about $5 per figma, with minimum orders of 100. Hong Kong is bootleg central.

We don't buy from Hong Kong because of this shit. I tried buying a nendoroid that was out of stock from a HK seller, and she accepted my paypal payment and immediately closed out both her eBay account and Paypal account, making it impossible for me to get my funds back.

A second time I bought from a HK seller, I got a nendoroid, it was put into a bag with no packing materials, just the box, and the box was beat to shit. The nendoroid's joints didn't hold together, the thing made my entire room smell of burnt plastic, and when you put it under a blacklight, it glowed like those nuclear rods in the Simpsons.

I will buy from Japanese, American, Canadian, British, Greek, German, Taiwanese, even sometimes mainland Chinese, but I will never again buy from Hong Kong. It's not worth risking your money.

It's not about being a GRORIOUS NIPPON weeaboo or any of your prejudiced shit like that, it's about being secure in knowing WYSIWYG, and Hong Kong cannot offer that security.

>>17982
>And even with sites like eBay, you're SOL if you receive an item and it's a bootleg.
yeah the last time I bought a bootleg fig was from a hong kong seller who used nothing but official images on the listing. when I tried complaining about it, the guy offered to refund the $20 it cost me if I returned the fig. the cost of shipping it back would have been $15 so I just held onto it.

>>17982
>There is literally no way of getting a seller to tell the truth about whether an item is bootleg or not.

look at the feedback.

also an entry-level figure collector like yourself probably isnt aware of this but not all figures have counterfiet versions.

>>17988
>look at the feedback.
People who are too stupid to avoid hong kong sellers in most cases will also too stupid to even realize they've bought a counterfeit item and will leave positive feedback.
I've seen plenty of sellers who sell almost exclusively bootleg items with tons of positive feedback.
There are however a few nice sellers that will at least say the item is a bootleg on their listing, but one shouldn't count on it.

>>17988
Both sellers had 100% positive feedback and had numbers in the thousands.

Also, as an "entry level collector" I should ask you, who is obviously an expert, how can you tell for sure if a figure has no bootleg version? Do I have to be subscribed to the Figure Underground Club of Kanto or Yuri Organizations United? I wasn't aware that whether each individual fig has a bootleg or not was such an easy thing to find out, since bootleggers are such honest people and all.

>Do I have to be subscribed to the Figure Underground Club of Kanto or Yuri Organizations United?

yeah its called myfigurecollection.net

yeah what >>18010 said
They update each fig's page when a bootleg version comes out, and sometimes they have photos of what to look for, I believe they also have lists of know bootleg retailers to watch out for.

I think everyone in this thread needs to take it easy!

>>18017
Who says we're not?