I've just went through a period of several weeks (even months) on wich I just constantly longed to die. Not wanting me or anything to get better, change or anything but just to stop all together: to end, without any more fake poor excuses of meaning; like if I had finally fully realized that I had been in a completely wrong path all the time but, unable to see any other possibility as any less stupid, I just rather kept pushing myself forward on this bitter path of self-reproaching and punishing; hoping someday I may hit the wall of the unbeareable an bounce back, anywhere, just to be able to eat normally, sleep normally, walk normally, smile and laugh normally, live normally, once again; without having to wear a stiff mask to cover a non-stop inside calling for rage, terror and despair...

The most amazing thing is how little we need to cling back onto life. Just a little surprise of some sort, something little and even ridiculous but wich seems to have turned out better than expected (when we had already given up all hope) and BAM! somehow we're (minimally) functional again. We didn't change at all: we didn't solve nothing at all; we are the same dispicable worthless human scum, but we don't feel overwhelmed by it anymore. And yes: that seem to be actually dangerous; because the agenda is still there: the problems were just pushed forward and we shall meet them again, as we keep growing old, making more difficult each time to ever be in any position to solve them; or to at least correct our path, back into some other that doesn't lead to poverty and a painful life of lack and utter solitude.

Pretexts is all we need (and ever get) to live or to die; and that, to realize that, is incredibly perplexing... and discouraging.

I don't really care about my life anymore. Like if I get a pain in my tooth or something I think that maybe I'll die before it becomes a problem. It's like I'm a crashing spaceship disintegrating in the atmosphere.

I went through the whole depression thing (and still do), and now I don't care any more and just waste time by playing video games and other stupid things to pass the time since I'm too much of a coward to kill myself. I hope that I die soon enough because there isn't anything in life that I find worth going through all of this for.

>>8007
you're me

>>8005
And who exactly are "we"? You speak as if you represent anyone other than yourself and your personal beliefs, of which are no doubt based upon your personal experiences - gathered from your own "path" in life. Am I incorrect in this observation?

A lot is relative in life. Relative to your past and current environment, relative to your body and mind, and its well-being. You don't need pretext; what you need, my man, is purpose. How you find it is also relative, all but the fewest of us can do so in solitude. Cherish what keeps you alive, and you'll cherish life. Cherish the air you breath, even if it stinks of smog. Cherish the food you eat, even if it tastes like mud. Cherish your human relationships, even if we're scum. It doesn't matter how truthful your relevations may be if it doesn't help keeping you alive, for it is not purpose to wish for the end of life.


>>8007
As a solution-oriented human being once said: Suicide doesn't solve anything.

That was my mother, by the may. Be glad you're not addicted to methamphetamine or suffer from any kind of psychosis; then you might've easier found your "courage". Living to regret your mistakes is a golden privelage.

Yes it does. It solves everything and will stop me from thinking or having to do anything ever again just to distract myself from remembering that I am me.

I wish that I had died when I was stabbed a month ago. I don't know why that stupid lung had to keep working. I should've died. I need to die. Something like me needs to die.

At least my emo bullshit doesn't look as retarded now.

Post edited on 20th Nov 2011, 3:03am

>>8010
>At least my emo bullshit doesn't look as retarded now.
It still does!

Also try committing to yourself!
For starters tell yourself whatever you do is great and that includes being still alive.

And I cannot tell you if this is bullshiting yourself or not, because it is precisely what I do.

On a side note, you could try reading umineko, its themes are pretty inspiring.

Post edited on 20th Nov 2011, 6:43am

Yes

I'm quite disconnected from reality at this point. My Escapist fantasies are more comforting to me than anything in the real world. I know that I'm going to have face reality eventually but I don't want to...
I wish that I could just disappear, ideally into my waifu's universe.

I'm sure that most normals would call me a deluded Psychopath.

>>8019
It does work, for everyone. It's been proven by countless studies that all you have to do to build your confidence is repeat a positive mantra, typically something like, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and, doggone it, people like me!"

Of course, you have to be careful not to let it turn into "I'm better than everyone, I'm smarter than everyone, and, doggone it, people are jealous of me," but that's quite a way in the future for most users here.

>>8022
Telling yourself those things probably works, but I can't just lie to myself. Only things I consider myself somewhat good at are pretty useless skills.

>>8009
>And who exactly are "we"?
Whoever else that, like OP, finds himslef at the gates of inanity (in or out); not you, probably.

>You don't need pretext; what you need, my man, is purpose [...] It doesn't matter how truthful your relevations may be if it doesn't help keeping you alive, for it is not purpose to wish for the end of life.
You should have noted already that, for what is perceived as an insignificant existence (i.e. for me, at least; I have no idea who you think you are), there's no real difference between purposes and big pretexts for living. If you read again that post, you may find that pragmatically conditioning/configurating one's lecture of any so called discovery to one's personal pitiful needs and towards a personal (useless or even detrimental) survival, it's the general and aparently unavoidable condition of inauthenticity and self-deceive, whose acknowledgement leaded me to self-abandonment in the first place; so, you see, you are not offering me any new perspective, this time... and now you'll have to read poetry:

Frente a la furia del mar son
inútiles todos los sueños.
¿Para qué decir la canción
de un corazón que es tan pequeño?
(Facing the fury of the sea they are
useless, all dreams.
Why even saying the song
of heart that is so small?)
-Neruda

>>8022
>repeat a positive mantra, typically something like, "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and, doggone it, people like me!"
lol... the disappointment you'll experience when you try to test, courageously, those assumptions.

Post edited on 20th Nov 2011, 3:39pm

>>8022
I have a mantra, but it goes more like "I'm a misanthropic pervert and I will never find happiness, but that's okay." It's a lot more honest, really.

>>8023
It's not lying, it's forcing yourself to view things from a different, more positive perspective, and if you want to improve yourself, you're going to have to do it. If you don't want to improve, fine, but then you can't complain about how you hate your life.

>>8024
lol... the disappointment you'll experience when you realize you're fucking stupid for assuming it was an assumption. What part of, "it's been proven by countless studies" do you not understand? And did the possibility ever occur to you I may be speaking not only scientifically, but also from experience?

>>8026
Cut out the "I will never find happiness" part. You'll obviously never find happiness if you WANT to be unhappy.

>>8027
The assumptions I was talking about were none but the very sentences on your mantra:

- I'm good enough
- I'm smart enough
- people like me!

Those were the assumptions I said you, me or anyone -hopefully, autocritically- may end up finding laughably weak and deceiving; It wasn't about if repeating mantras works for some people or not, wich, honestly, I don't care about; as I don't care either about the psychological/neurological studies you may be refering to, as a product of the proovenly poor epistemological viewing of science you may currently stand for (or anyother discourse on the standards of verification and its limits*). Really: it's simply not was I was adressing to, neither something I'm interested in discuss about with you yet.

---------------------------
(*) UNRELATED...

>It does work, for everyone. It's been proven by countless studies
>for everyone [...] countless studies

PROTIP. Don't play dumb: everyone =/= many of; if such was the case, we already have prime numbers generating functions, and there could be proven plain false things like: "Every integer number is pair" or "All the girls in the world have green eyes". Also: those studies you say, however abundant or somehow "good" they might be for some criteria, they can't possibly be countless: there must be a (rather small) finite number of them (since we exist as a finit number of people), wich makes it a VERY countable and traceable number of studies, wich validity is delimited by that of statistical methods, far from actual mathematical certainty (yeah: statistics and numerical methods aren't real maths; go figure); and neither we have exhaustive access to everybody (ever) in the world, so every universal proposition about people depends on partial (non-recursive) definitons of what a human is, wich represents an inductive step that differs from Mathematical Induction's Principle...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countable_set
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mathematical_induction_Proof

So, you see, "everyone" and "countless", in this case, are just some of those gratuitiously intimidating big words you allegedly despise and avoid; and very unappropriatte ones, if you really are anxious about grounding your thoughs on science or logic. This is the kind of stuff you should stop to think about before compromising your arguments and beliefs with anything, and start calling others fucking stupid for not buying it.

>>8029
That wasn't my mantra, just a mantra. A famous one, actually.

The word "countless," was an exaggeration and you know it; stop over-thinking things. But yes, I should have said "most everyone." I figured it was apparent I didn't mean it works for literally every single person who tries it, and I was only wording it as such for effect.

>>8030
I don't overthink, I just try to think (get it through, already). And the mantra... well, consider this other zen poem, then:

"Quietly, without doing anything, springtime comes and the grass it grows."
Also hair, it grows.

Post edited on 20th Nov 2011, 10:22pm

Oftentimes, when I was living at my old place, I would go for walks in the city during the evening - Mostly to McDonald's. They've got those cheap-ass sweet teas for like, $1.18 in a huge cup.

While I wandered through the streets of the city, listening to my music, drinking my tea, watching the streetlights shine off of parked cars, feeling the wind of cars zooming by me, I felt so alone. So alone I just wanted to die. The more I walked and took in the scenery, the loneliness turned to numbness, and it got to the point where the only thing that mattered to me was just walking, one foot in front of the other, and that action was all that mattered to me. That happened just about every night for a month straight. It was like some great catharsis, the more I did it, the more meaningless everything seemed. Not really a good kind of meaningless, or at the least, a meaninglessness that wasn't bad.

"I don't feel and it feels great..."

>>8006

>Like if I get a pain in my tooth or something I think that maybe I'll die before it becomes a problem.

Haha, it's more or less the same for me. When my batteries died a week ago I thought that maybe there's no point in going out to buy new ones, maybe it would be easier to just kill myself.

Of course it's not just this one time. There are lots of such things, small or not. 'Well it's not like it matters, I'll kill myself sooner or later either way' is such a comforting thought - sometimes I think no matter what happened in my life now it wouldn't be able to really get me down.

I think guys who cut their veins with razors must think 'well, at least I won't have to shave anymore'. Than again... I guesss males usually use other means when it comes to suicide. Well, I bet at least a few thought of it like that.

>>8009

>Living to regret your mistakes is a golden privelage.

This is one of those aphorisms that sound clever and somewhat romantic but in the end they are nothing but bullshit. My favorite would have to be 'better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all' - one of the biggest lies in history of mankind.

>You should have noted already that (...)
From there on you made me rewrite 30-something words into 7:
"Interpret information ad hoc personal interests."
Replying to such isn't much fun; I'm not supposed to do the retorical work for you - just so that you can maintain your melancholic tone. Not that it matters in this case, I wasn't much interested in your personal views to begin with; what interested me was the message you wished to convey to the OP and anyone concerned - and in what manner. It seemed as if you were offereing guidance, from the perspective of someone who indeed fulfilled the OP's criteria. In light of the OP it may be that you are entitled to some position of power in this thread - as one who is knowledgeable in existing in "the gates of inanity". In such a situation you better damn well offer something worth of generalization. The only poster so far to perform such a feat is >>8022, even with the unfortunate lack of sourcing. Seeing you hack on his usage of the word "countless" is unsightly, and will only reward a layman's accusation of suffering from autism. If you refuse to take the scientific route in such a fragile argument, at least go with some suitable philosopher; poetry won't help your cause. I say this not to help you fortify your views, and don't expect me to alter them either; you should rather dig a bit deeper.

A psychologist who serves his patients only the "correct" answers is a poor one. A decent psychologist will balance the "correct" answers with the answers the patient actually needs to hear. A brilliant psychologist will further balance the appropriate answers with teachings on how to master their troubles, e.g. anxiety, stress, depression, suicidal thoughts and pondering, among others. That's right, pondering can be as much of a threat to your well-being as being suicidal. Pondering your troubles won't solve them, and neither will suicide. Hope isn't lost until you abandon it. Giving in to hardships is as fruitful as digging your veins with razor blades. Though if that's what it takes for you to be truthful to yourself then go ahead. What mockery of "self-respect" that would be.

>>8043
>This is one of those aphorisms that sound clever and somewhat romantic but in the end they are nothing but bullshit.
What do you take me for, bringer of divine truth? Don't make an ass of yourself crticizing idoms for being unrealistic, they're not meant to solve your problems - how could they? Only you can, and use whatever phrases you please in the process - or don't. Words of appeal to some will at least be equally exclusionary to others.



It's like I'm not allowed to be light-hearted. Reminds me of the "NO FUN" sign.

You know, I've been in the pondering pit myself, invested a lot of energy in it, as if it was worth anything. I was wrong, and as painful as it was to recover from this mis-step, it had to be done should I ever move on. Don't want to see others in similar situations, being content in their missery as I was; which might be why I could never pursue my dream of becoming a practician in psychology. Even if I said I recovered thanks to a special someone, that someone would insist the honor is on me. She's sweet like that.

>>8060
If you want sources, I can get them, but it's basically common knowledge. I just googled "increase self esteem" and the first result was a list of general steps from the Mayo Clinic, one of the most respected medical institutions in the world. Step three was, unsurprisingly, "Challenge negative or inaccurate thinking".

>>8065
I don't want them, I don't need them. It's not about me, it's about backing up your statements. Claims on behalf of previously established research, without proper source material, makes you look like you're trying to win an argument - which is kind of unseemly. Moreso you're effectively asking your peers not to take your words for it, but some other unintroduced party. That's asking a bit too much, don't you think? In the end, you ought to respect the scientific work of others by sourcing it, should you ever find yourself using it for your own or any other's sake. It doesn't matter if you claim it to be "common knowledge"; it's not until you can back it up.

I think that's enough for now about sourcing. Oh, and don't use google or wikipedia. Those are hardly scientific sources. If you must, use google scholar or wikipedia's source list.

>>8060
>What do you take me for, bringer of divine truth? Don't make an ass of yourself crticizing idoms for being unrealistic, they're not meant to solve your problems - how could they? Only you can, and use whatever phrases you please in the process - or don't. Words of appeal to some will at least be equally exclusionary to others.

Yeah, well. Some people react badly to those kinds of phrases. A few months ago I was told to appreciate what I have because I live in a first world country. I guess I do appreciate the fact that I'm not starved or homeless, but that kind of statement assumes that all people really need to live is water and food and shelter, and that purpose and identity don't matter at all. If I'm still alive at 80 and I'm just like I am today, I'd count myself far worse off than if I had died today.

But like you said, whatever works for the individual.

>>8060
>what interested me was the message you wished to convey to the OP and anyone concerned... It seemed as if you were offereing guidance... In light of the OP it may be that you are entitled to some position of power in this thread as one who is knowledgeable

It does still surprise me that some you guys get this idea and certainly I didn't expected it, at all, for my first one post ITT (my answer to giascle was -for me, at least- just another episode of a sort of 1-1 ping pong Happening we've had for a while)...

I just spoke my heart out (in the best style I could), nothing more, nothing less. I didn't even attempt to give -or asked for- any counseling and, sorry, I don't give a crap about what a good therapist would do to deal with this thread's or anyother subject. To make it perfectly clear: I'm not here to teach or guide anyone, I'm not here to help anyone (as if I think I could); but, merely, to share my best and most sincere thoughts about thematics that interest me and expecting the same from you, hoping that some of your posts may provide me with some unknown hot material to catch up with and spend my time lively*.

You go and try saving others here -at the edge of suicide or whatever- if you want to. If to do so you must also adress to me, like now, for my eventual perceived negative influence or something, go ahead. But be not mistaken: it's not my intention neither my concern to make /so/ any less /so/, /tc/ any less /tc/, or take any responsability for any of you, neither to put myself in your hands. It's just not what I'm here for.

Won't derail anymore. Sorry, OP.

-----------------------------
(*) UNRELATED: I'd love you to tell me wich philosphers were you thinking about, when you suggested me to look for references beyond the realm of science's claims of (any) objectiveness.

OP. I don't mind. I'm just happy that there's someplace where I can relate to other people about this issue.

I've been thinking about trying to get a job somewhere extremely far away, in a remote place. Maybe even around or in the polar regions. I think I'd be a lot happier in such a place, where I maybe wouldn't have to deal with all the kinds of shitty people who live in this city full of corporate cunts, ridiculous poseurs and "artists". I'm tired of all the bullshit.

>>8069
My point was that "the truth" is not necessairly a goal worth fighting for, especially not when your own well-being is at stake, as has been a theme throuhout this thread.

>try saving others
No, that's not how it works. There's no such thing as effective proxy therapy, and even attempting so at a place like this will make you look like an ignorant jackass. I am not inclined to have you go down this route.

My study is geared towards traditional science, so I would not be the best reference for philosophy. My go-to philosophers would be Kant and Gadamer, and in meta Socrates' method. In your case, I might rather suggest Spinoza's Ethica. I have his book, but you have to accept certain artifacts of the past to enjoy it - namely Haruhi, and in this case Haruhi as the perfect substanse. That's more of an extension to Decartes' work, which is fair; Spinoza was after all shunned from his own religion.

>>8070
>even around or in the polar regions. I think I'd be a lot happier in such a place

I don't know if I'd be any happier there, but I as well can easily identify with that longing for (apathetic) peace, surrounded by a cold climate and isolation at end of the world. Say: If I ever move from my little secure (as possible) mouse's hole, I'd like to go to Iceland; or maybe Norway, motherland of Ibsen (and a country with a high rate of suicides, lol); by all means: I'd still need to have decent access to internet wherever I go, that's just essential.

----------------------------
UNRELATED:
>>8071
>traditional science
Maths here.
>Kant and Gadamer... meta Socrates' method... Spinoza's Ethica... Decartes
Got them more or less covered (experimental method/positivistic vs hermeneutic/postmodern traditions, bla bla bla); thanks. Still have to dig Spinoza, though: I've kept his Ethica on my bookcase, abandoned for years; may go for it now, we'll see [indeed: academic skepticism -> (ataraxia) v (other Meh)].

Post edited on 23rd Nov 2011, 1:57pm

>I have his book, but you have to accept certain artifacts of the past to enjoy it - namely Haruhi, and in this case Haruhi as the perfect substanse.
How lame, I'm now laughing of my own post.

>>8075
>a country with a high rate of suicides
Not really, it's about the same as USA. I'd say it's average for a country with well mapped surveys on suicide rates.

Travelling to Iceland at this time would not be wise, for obvious reasons. Norway and Sweden are both good countries. Disregard Finland unless you'd enjoy living in a highly macho centered culture with insane work ethics (not unlike Japan).

>>8075
Yeah, internet access is important to me. But it's partly a way to escape from said bullshit of living in the city, around people I don't like. If I were somewhere remote, maybe I wouldn't need it so much. Another reason I want to go somewhere like that is that I always wanted to go into space as a kid, but since I'm not smart enough and terrible at math, the Arctic or someplace similar is the farthest I can possibly get from everyone else.

Well, it's all speculation, since I probably won't be going anywhere anyway.

>>8078
>a way to escape from said bullshit of living in the city, around people I don't like.
I'd still need it to escape from me and my own bullshit...
But yeah: it's all just talk, like the Tohno-house(?).

>>8078
When I was a kid I visited my grandparents every summer. Mind you my grandparents lived in a very isolated area in England. However I don't know why but despite being alone most of the time I always had fun exploring forests and fields and such and never really touched a video game or anything electronic until I got back home to the city from summer break. Now that I think about it. I think the reason I prefer solitude now as an adult, is because as a child I spent many of my summers breaks isolated from the world in the middle of no where, with nothing to entertain me except for my own thoughts and imagination.

>>8082

You're damn right. When out of general dissapointment I began as a shut in, I immediatly felt like a child again, from the times when I wasn't allowed to get out of the house (thought I hated it, back then) and spent the entire day drawing, reading nice books (tales; novels; old encyclopedias, mostly around animals, astronomy and other nature/science stuff), watching my favourite cartoons and playing Nintendo; so it all came together as a -before unknown- (One Person Only) Paradise re-found, in a pemanent sunday, always on vacation.

But then, of course, the obvious paradox attacks. In the way our society has raised us to function, free time is cherished and lived to its full also and strongly because we know is limited; the joy of reward comes from the work we've done to deserve it, so, when we lost purpose out there, we sooner or later start desensibilizing ourselves in recreation as well; without limiting parameters, we quickly lose the map and compass of our lives and end up with nothing but confusion, regret and constant fear from an always aproaching threatening future...

Such a shame this isn't enough to push one back into the world; since the maps we're given to follow or attempt to trace ourselves, don't cease (but rather increase) looking senseless, fugly, dangerous and faked.

Post edited on 23rd Nov 2011, 9:28pm