Case by case. For me it'd be the latter probably.

>>12016
Definitely depends on the person. For most it's probably a step forward.

Especially if the person isn't a NEET by choice, but rather held back by something like anxiety.

Not everyone has parents with enough money to support them forever. SSI is barely anything, and will most likely force you into living with others.

some people get really sick of the neet life after a while, but it's got it's advantages for sure.

Both. Depends how an individual views "moving forward" and "moving backward" in life. Everyone scales success differently. Plus you have to take into account the reason a person is doing what they're doing. Are they mentally ill and unable to do things they want to do? By learning to cope with fears of leaving the house so you can do things you want to do, you would be moving forward.

What I'm wondering, is why you would be dwelling on a thought like this. You can't measure success on a general scale. Not everyone is going to abide by it and believe they're getting somewhere. Are you confining yourself by other peoples standards? Are you acting based on those peoples standards and expectations? Do you believe what other people tell you and comfort you with will make you happy?

Ultimately, you have to define those things entirely by yourself. You have to live through your life and no one else. You know what your values are, even if you're afraid to admit to it. If you feel shame, hatred, disgust for yourself, your lifestyle, or things you spend time on, then you should be learning how to change those things. In doing so, you move forward and evolve as a person. Plus you have to take into account if an individual is trying to survive on their own - in which case NEET to employed would be a definite upgrade. Definitely better than ending up homeless.

Of course being a shut-in NEET with all the free time in the world gives you a very comfortable haven that you can't achieve in any other kind of lifestyle. It's something to be admired on some level, even by individuals who hate and loathe it. Depends how you look at it. Depends how much you let other peoples opinions get in the way of what you believe and desire.

Moving forward to become a cooperate slave at best.

Nobody wants that, it's just they don't have much of a choice or don't want to take the other way.

The only way to go is the way of a Privatier.
You earned so much that you live from interests.

How can anyone like it to be pushed around?

Being NEET is great.

>>12025
I disagree. For me, being a NEET was torture. It might be great for some people - the benefits are undeniable - but the psychological pressure is too great. I hated knowing that I relied on others completely just to survive.

Now I have a job, and even though it's part-time it is much better than nothing. I hope to get full-time work soon. I find solace in work, because when I'm busy at my job I have no time to think about what a miserable pervert I am. Now that I'm working, I actually hate going home and try to spend as much time outside as possible while simultaneously avoiding people. It's not as hard as it sounds. Libraries and quiet, dark cafes are great places to seek solitude outside of the house.

It would be a step forward for me. But I don't want to step forward into the future.

Isn't that why a lot of us are here? Not all of us have anxiety or some other disability. Some of us just have lack of willpower.

A step forward if you want to and a step backward if you don't.

>>12074
Simple but true answer.

When one moves on?
Shouldn't it be "if"?

Anyway, I think moving on from being an otaku is a step backward in life. I'm not even sure if someone can truly move on unless forced by outside forces, which is already kind of impossible. I'm assuming otaku as an obsessive fan of some kind of pop culture right? If so, then I stand by my word.

Moving on from being Hikkikomori/NEET however, I think is a giant step forward. While those lifestyles are extremely pleasant and perfect for the lazy/mentally incapable, I think there is much happiness to be found with earning money/going outside. I mean, just think about it. An otaku that earns his keep and goes out and shit and buys stuff for himself? I think that's living the dream there.

For the most part, yes it's moving forward. Just dealing with your life and fears, and moving on to different things in general is a good thing to experience. You don't have to completely change yourself, but living in the world requires some adaptation, or transition into adulthood. Sometimes living in the world sucks, but you can have great moments if you try.
Whether you reading or anybody else here wants to admit it or not, there's a very good reason why things and people are the way they are. The core of it is in our biology. People need to stay atleast somewhat productive and do things with themselves in order to feel fulfilled. Don't be idealistic about yourselves. You are not some blank slate that can apply some logic and justification to choose what you are truly happy with. You are a human being, with all the hard wiring and baggage that comes with it. With all of the obligations and responsibilities. Trying to worm your way out of this fact is just denying reality. For a while, staying away from pain is pleasure in and of itself. I understand completely, and I empathize. But you know that this life you're living isn't okay. The feeling within you won't let you be okay with it. It doesn't want to torture you, it wants you to do what you really want. It wants you to move forward onto other things and expand your horizons.
Yes, nothing matters and ultimately you can choose to do what you want, regardless of whether it is indeed what you want. But the humanity in you, your subconcious, won't let you be unhappy without making you feel.. Well, unhappy.

>>12079
I don't think OP was saying that it's inevitable that all of us will move on. He's only talking about the ones that do, and when it happens.

>>12023
It's true that success may not be completely objective, but the notion that it's almost all or completely subjective is a worthless viewpoint. It's justification and perceived damage control.

>>12081
There is so much wrong with this post I am not even going to bother tearing it apart. Even applying moving forward to just getting a job is highly subjective to the individual. It may help me if I have a small one for more money on the side but that's the extent of moving forward it would do for me. what I will tell you at least is it isn't how I live my life I'm unhappy with but what I can never have and the way so many people are in the world around me that make me upset.

>>12082
You've utterly failed to understand my argument. Things like getting job are symptomatic.
>it isn't how I live my life I'm unhappy with
Bullshit. You live your life tip-toeing around the things you think you can never have.
It's your fucking attitude that's the problem.

>>12081
> People need to stay atleast somewhat productive and do things with themselves in order to feel fulfilled.
But can't people be productive even though they're otaku/hikikomori/NEET?
So what you're saying (while it may be true) doesn't really have anything to do with moving on.

>>12084
In a world unlike the one we live in, yes. But let's be honest here, does that really happen very much at all? That sort of thing is very, very hard to do. Where would your happiness come from? A teacher once told me essentially that being productive breeds productiveness, and she is totally right. It's like a muscle that you work out. Same with things like concentration, memory and conversation. If you live a life that is so devoid of effort, it's going to be hard to do something productive. Extremely hard. The allure of what's easy is too strong to resist.
Being a NEET/Hikki/Otaku isn't just what you do. You are how you feel (and the way you feel is not permanent), not necessarily what you choose. It's the why. It's escapism, and harmful to you. Don't put it off or run away. A NEET at the workplace will still have the same mentality as he did for awhile. Eventually though, the NEET will get better at it. You will be able to shrug off things that were once daunting. Fixing yourself isn't a switch you flip; it's a muscle that you build. Effort makes you a better person. One that is better able to face and navigate through the world of today.
A few more things. You shouldn't try to go out of your way to do something you can't do (yet). If you can't have a conversation with someone, don't force it. It'll make things worse. Just focus on what you like, and feeling better. Other people don't matter right now.
And this, something that you may not believe but I'm dead serious about: giving in to the vices in your life is hurting you. Things like pornography (I'm dead serious), and drugs (alcohol, caffeine, anything else) keep you entrenched in the horrible state of mind. No matter how bad you feel after giving them up, don't give in. That's your brain crying out for easy pleasure. But the easy things in life are usually empty, like fast food. You might think that there is nothing else for you but these things, but I want you all to know that that is absolutely not true. You're just not there yet. I promise you, I swear to Haruhi I promise you that you'll feel better. When you over-indulge in these easy pleasures like masturbation, you sort of "fry" yourself and feel numb to the world. When you regularly and greedily release your dopemine from masturbation and drugs, nothing else in the world will really make you feel good. That's what you could call a mental addiction. And when you starve yourself of what you rely on, your brain will seek pleasure from other things. At first it will be horrible (suicidal horrible), but bear with it because that's your brain undoing the damage. Just get through the day. Eventually everything gets better. Doing every little thing will actually feel better. Little things that you feel nothing for will feel better. Getting out of bed and going for a walk on a nice day. And then comes the part that fixes you.
Moving on involves a maturing of the mindset. You will actually know what to do and you will be able to face the challenges that life throws at you. You will have confidence in yourself and be more optimistic. You'll notice more things in the world and have more interest and better focus on things. The things that kept you trapped won't have so much power over you anymore. You don't have to give up your interests in anime or whatever, but you do have to do more with yourself. And you will have what it takes in you to do more with yourself, and get better at life. A lot of the times you'll do things because you feel like it.
This is moving forward.

>But the easy things in life are usually empty, like fast food

disagree 100%

>>12081
>the notion that it's almost all or completely subjective is a worthless viewpoint.
I don't understand how it's "worthless". Some people see making a lot of money as "success", some see just having a family as "success" without caring about being filthy rich, some think "success" lay within their freedom to do whatever they want at any given time. Some see "success" at rising to the top of their industry and "making something meaningful". Some think "success" is learning as much as they can. Some people think all those things combined are "success". Look at a monk and tell me they think of a "successful" life the same way a multimillion dollar businessman does.

I agree with your point that the human mind needs to always learn and do new things, but when you're talking long term success you have to consider that not everyone wants to live the same life. You sound like you're mixing two entirely different things based on your desires and viewpoint on "success". There are have been several men who successfully built a cabin in the wild and lived among nature away from society for years for example - many people in modern society wouldn't consider a life like that "success". They would just call it "weird".

"A productive and busy mind working towards something" and "success" are two entirely different things. You can be unsuccessful in your life and still be learning and doing productive things. And you can be successful in your life with an absence of constant productivity - which often leads to mid-life crisis or similar. It depends on the situation and the individual, but it's certainly very possible.

Also the point of my post wasn't trying to justify NEET life at all. The reverse, really, people are very easily suggestible and will do a lot of stupid shit based on ideas other people give them. Shut-ins I've spoken to in the past have never known what they wanted in life, they've only ever wanted to keep shutting themselves away. They reinforce this idea by coming online and reading about other people who do the same. They get all their social fulfillment online and never have a reason to push outside of themselves. Then it becomes hard for them to determine what they want in life, because they're convinced this is the only life for them. The reverse also happens, where people go along with a crowd and just do whatever everyone else is doing in society, then they end up somewhere along the way wondering what the fuck they're doing with their life and why they're working a job they hate and wasting their weekends getting wasted out of their minds when they'd rather be doing something else.

I expressed my point poorly, but a time comes when a person has to sit back and think about what they want in life and where they want it to go. Regardless of the definition of "success" and what other people define as "success". Regardless of what your peers say, and whether you are employed or unemployed, you have to review your values and desires and pull your life together by your desires. When you can't achieve your desires (no matter how simple or extravagant) you'll become depressed, it's as simple as that. So as much as I'm attacking people who try to push others out of the NEET lifestyle I'm also attacking people who push them farther into it. I'm not for or against anything on this topic - I only think people need to reevaluate their lives more often than they do.

>>12081
I don't think it's biology as much as it is societal programming. If you've been effectively programmed by the system to feel worthless if you aren't productive, you have the power to rewire yourself and learn to believe otherwise. It would take a really long time, though.

I'm no longer a NEET and I'm pretty disappointed with what "real life" is like.
I work, cook, clean, eat, sleep, and have little time to do the things I enjoy. It feels like I'm working so I can pay rent so I can afford to continue working. A pointless and mundane existence.

>>12171
>It feels like I'm working so I can pay rent so I can afford to continue working

This is part of the reason I am afraid to enter the workforce. I am sick of life enough as it is, if you add on the daily grind of a job then what is even the point.

I don't think so.
I used to worry about my future all the time when I was a hiki- 'where will I be 10 years from now?' and all that. Getting a job hasn't made me feel any better. Going home from work I find myself wondering what am I going to do in 2020 when they get a computer to do my job. I know there are lots of incredibly talented and gifted shut ins who invested all their free time into a pasttime they enjoyed and turned it into a succesful career (artists, translators, musicians, web entrepeneurs, etc) but I'm not one of them. I have no marketable skills. I really am worthless from every possible point of view. You could even argue that I'm worse off now because I don't even have enough time to study, learn, train, or do whatever. I just browse the internet for an hour or two before eating something and going to bed. I'm tired.

I really should have listened to my parents when I was little... they kept telling me to find something I'm good at and make a career out of it.
I was too busy playing videogames to listen