Honestly, I think that whole idea while it's fundamentally true, it is an easy way to get out of the thought "Someone else loves who I love." by convincing yourself they're different people, when they kinda... aren't. Everyone will probably disagree with me for saying this, but I like to apply normal relationship thoughts/standards to how I think of the relationship here, because ultimately it's me wanting to be in a similar sort of relationship with her.

It's a very hard thing to get over, having 'competition'. I still get annoyed sometimes, but more out of "how dare this person even think they care for her as much as I do" than anything else.

>>3409

>that doesn't make sense to me. Two people may love the same girl for different reasons I guess, but it's still the same girl.
Disregarding (for now) the radical difference in consequences if such "girl" is a real/3D or a fictional character, the main question would be: Who is that same girl you talk about? or, in other words: What can you really say about her?...

Do you, or anyone, actually know her? Can you, or anyone, know anyone or anything objectively, that is, in-itself, without the pollution of your own perception and subjective understanding of it (does even science can do this?)? What does it mean to know something? If nothing can be known (incorporated into a personal heritage of useful referential signs) without a process of signification, and signification it's always a metaphorical process: how can you say that you love her, the actual one, the real one, if you don't even know her?... Do you even really know yourself? or all we ever do is just to guess and speculate about everything, taking some interpretations/labels/theories for valid as long as they proove themselves useful for certain purposes?...

What troubles you is either nonsenses or a formal epistemological/ontological problem. The imposibility of knowing a girl objectively, and hence to find ourselves in no position to legitimately predicate anything about it (but merely about the signs of her we construct), it's just a sub-case of the imposibility of obtaining objective knowledge at all, as long as we use language and signification to conduct ourselves through the world. The actual girl (fictional or real) you talk about, is just the unreacheable intact source, the pretext, for the entity you construct in you head to get to "know" whatever she might be; but, in any case, what you love is what you know, not what is there.

TL;DR Because philosophy (and mathematical logic).

>>3430

I apologise if this sounds somewhat harsh, but you seem to have missed the point entirely.

You went off on an absolute tangent. The concept behind 'you never truly know a person, B might think A is a different person (traits, personality) than C does' isn't the problem here, I think. This is a bit nasty and I honestly apologise, but you're using language that plain up seems pretentious to get some scholarly point across that, well, it's just unnecessary.

I won't nitpick, but it's more... that concept may be completely true, but it's still the same person. You can love "your" vision of them, but at the end of the day it's still them. It ever so slightly differs for 2D because, well, they aren't physically real people to begin with. The same thing applies, however. If they were real, there'd be one of them.

>>3433
>"your" vision of them... at the end of the day it's still them.
No it's not, by no means, in so many levels (this is frustrating)...

That's what I've been insisting, from long ago, little by little, that is a widely spread but naive, profoundly wrong and harmfully misleading assumption with plenty of examples in the history of what we call now science (wich shapes today's world), and the possible root of countlessly repeated mistakes and personal failures that make our daily lives miserable (and, in some of our cases, turned us into hiki/NEET)...

But, althought this is critcal to me (as in direct co-relation with me having a waifu and my life stuck in here), apparently I can't make it reach any of you. I might be really all wrong or, as you said, simply out of place; so fuck it: doesn't matter; right or wrong, it's a shitload of stuff that I'm unable to turn into posts, so it's enough.

Thanks for your honesty (really). I'm done babbling.

>>3439
I'm not quite sure I follow you, but are you saying there is no 'objective truth' behind the waifu and/or it is all entirely subjective? Your English is confusing... I'm not the guy you replied, to by the way.

>>3440
I think that is what he's saying, that all you have is your own perception of something, and you can never know the objective truth

>>3440
>>3442
[English is not my mother language indeed; sorry]

I'm saying that, whether or not there exists an objective truth or "reality" of any concept, we can't seize it by the means of our actual cognitive system, and hence it's abussive/naive to assume we ever interact with anything non subjectively (non virtually).

I do believe in the existence of a real world. But what the real form of that world is? who knows; we just can get to know what we signify and we can just signify with sense what we somehow perceive with any of our 5 senses. But different senses would render a very different image of the world. So all possible signification of the world (wich was already a subjective/creative/poetical process) is inexorably determined by our own perception, and senses themselves are subjective; so the gap betwen us and the world is double and terrible: we have absolutely no fucking right to believe we know anything (or anyone) as it really is. Ironically, science, the most powerfully predictive model in the world, adress it's subjects by the means of mathematics and logic: probaly the most purely methaphysical/poetical construct ever made, absolute bending of the matter and meaning in benefit of the form and syntax.

WILL DERAIL NO MORE I PROMISE

Post edited on 24th Jun 2011, 7:58pm

Hey OP, I don't really have any advice but I wanted to let you know I have a similar problem, so don't feel too bad. I'm totally against claiming waifus and I understand how you really shouldn't get angry about other people loving the same girl, but I can't help it sometimes.

Here's my problem: if someone just posts somewhere saying "I love Mio, she's my waifu", I'm a little disgruntled but I can deal with it. But when someone posts an extravagant display of love with figures, cakes with her name on it, and all kinds of other crap I start to feel seriously threatened. Suddenly it feels like I'm in a cut-throat competition to prove who loves her more, which of course is nonsense, but I still can't help myself.

All I can say is to try your best to ignore the others. Multiple people having the same waifu is just one of the unfortunate downsides to 2D love, it seems. I really admire the people that aren't bothered by this, but for me I think it will continue to be an issue in the future.

>>3453

I may seem like one of those people who don't mind, but it took a lot of mental practice to stop it bugging me.

I recently realized I'm a huge fucking hypocrite when it comes to this
I like to say that I don't idealize anything about Asuka, and I love her simple for her and nothing else. All those "ideals of her" and "filling in the blanks", I think it's horseshit of the highest degree
If you love someone, you love that person. You search to know everything about them so your mind can't fill in the blanks. And even with all that, you still love that person. Sure they have faults, but if you really love them, it only contributes to that.

But see, the problem is, I fantasize about living with her as much as anyone here. And that in of itself involves idealiziations of who she is. And I don't know who she is. I just, at most, know how she works

I don't know anything about her. I fill blanks. I'm a hypocrite
What I'm saying is, I don't think I actually love her. If I did, I wouldn't idealize. Or maybe I do and I'm just looking for an excuse to cut her off, god knows

Sorry for the rant

Post edited on 25th Jun 2011, 9:48am

>>3456

If you're who I'm thinking you are, I'm feeling really bad right now.

Did you argue with some /a/nons on 4chan last night about how you don't actually love Asuka?

Because I was one of them.

And if I made you feel like this... Then wow, I feel like utter shit.

I'm... I'm sorry. I didn't mean to cause this much damage.

>>3461
Dude
I hate being self important on anon boards, but...
Thanks for recognizing me

I'm fine. Don't worry about it. I just needed to rant

I get what OP is saying, and it's been bothering me too. I've never seen anyone with the same waifu as me, but I know it would really bother me alot if I did, since she's the only one for me.

>>3408
>>3473

>she is the only one for me
You do realize that it doesn't imply, in any way, that you are "the only one for her", right?

In other words: the fact that she is the only one you can possibly love, doesn't mean you're the only one in that situation. On the contrary: if you find her so fascinating, it should be even kind of strange to you that no one else sees her that way... I mean, if you keep on believing that everybody is really seeing the very same girl, it should be just natural that guys similar to you will fall for her as well.

Post edited on 26th Jun 2011, 3:33am

>>3474

I don't think he implied that at all. I can't see how you managed to infer that.

>>3476
Because they keep saying that phrase as a result of their apprehension when others share the same waifu... how else could you possibly read what they're saying, and in relation with the subject of his thread?

Anyway, my point is: either if you think that your waifu is your interpretation of the character or the character itself, to base that conclusion on your feelings of jelaousy is ridiculous: the very existence of jelaousy among 2D lovers is ridiculous.

>>3474
So what your saying is, is that someone else probly loves her? It would just bother me if I saw someone else say that she's their waifu is all. I can't help it, she's the most important thing to me. I just couldn't be without her.
>>3480
I don't quite understand how jealousy is ridiculous. You love someone, and you want to be with them. But if you find out someone else loves them too usually people get jealous.

>>3481
I said jealousy among 2D lovers is ridiculous. That should be enough; go figure.

>>3483
I was just saying I don't really see how jealousy is ridiculous. I don't think it should really matter who you're in love with, if someone was in that situation usually they'd get jealous. I would be.

Post edited on 26th Jun 2011, 9:55pm

>>3483
You can't tell me you wouldn't at least feel odd if someone else said they have the same waifu as you. This isn't just two people who share the same favorite food, it's two people who are in love with the same girl. 2D or 3D is completely beside the point.

>>3485

>You can't tell me you wouldn't at least feel odd if someone else said they have the same waifu as you.
Well I don't. When it happened, I actually thought: about time someone else realized how wonderful she is! how can anyone not notice it?...

>2D or 3D is completely beside the point.
It's not. Once again: either if you think that your waifu is your own interpretation or the character in-itself (whatever that's supposed to be) and unlike with 3D, you don't have to compete for her because she doesn't exist in our world (wich is, functionally, THE world) and no one can snatch what is not there.

What you love is not her physical presence (that is, the media she's portraited on: production cells, video, scripts paper...) but the character, wich some guy invented: a product of men imagination wich, as any work of art, only exists conceptually (I'd even say: metaphysically). So, since she exists only in your mind and there's no way anyone could possibly take something like that away from you, your feelings of jelaousy are completely out of place. If you still experience them, is because you haven't think this 2D love thing through and still consider your waifu inappropriately similar to an actual woman.

Post edited on 27th Jun 2011, 1:02am

>>3487
>If you still feel them, is because you haven't think this 2D love thing through and still consider your waifu inappropriately similar to an actual woman.
Yes, I always have, and probably always will. Someone else saying they love her feels the same to me as if I had a girlfriend, and someone fell in love with a flawless clone of her. There's no reason why we I can't love her and he love the clone (or vice-versa), but it still feels wrong, like she's just open to anyone who wants her. Logically, it makes perfect sense, but it doesn't morally. When I settled on Tenshi, I didn't just think she was cute and considered that a good enough reason; I thought about our compatibility. We're both sometimes selfish and rude, but always playful and friendly. If she were real, there could hopefully be something deeper than me having to adore her from afar while she ignores the creepy kid who's always watching her.

>>3488
>When I settled on Tenshi, I didn't just think she was cute and considered that a good enough reason; I thought about our compatibility... [so] there could hopefully be something deeper than me having to adore her from afar

When I was initially confronted with the waifu concept, my first I consideration was: there are so many 2D girls that I sincerely cherish; everyone is flawless in it's own way and occupy irreplaceable niches in my mind, heart and life; so if I had to choose only one, to keep her as my dearest, who could it be? actually: how could I even perform such cold and brutal selection, as if picking from a cake store? -Like you just said: they aren't food; so, for a while, I didn't have a waifu...

What finally allowed and drove me to get my own was a most important question to me, beyond temporary charm and fascination.

I didn't care that, if she was real, she couldn't possibly love or even like me (such a horrendous and rotten homunculus). Neither I cared that, if she was real, any outcome from a relationship with a 14yo girl could be nothing but disastrous. And certainly I did not -and do not- care of how many other monkeys out there could fall for her as well, and wich ones of them are more suited to her taste. Because, you see, it wasn't about how much good could I get from her (since I could get more immediate joy from other girls I considered), but about how much I could give her: how much I could be in fair right to PUT into her, to legimately turn her into my most wonderful conceivable creature, apotheosis of femininity, and thus indisputably worthy of (my) actual love. And so, the question was: is there anyone out there, in the entire fucking world (as far as my eyes can see), that I could consider worthy of that? Is there anyone I could (dare allowing myself) to love?... And the answer was: yes, there is one.

TL;DR What I really wanted was, quite simply, someone to love. All the rest was -and still is- negligible and if I could take it as such was, precisely, thanks to the fact that she isn't real. Mine, at least, is a kind of love that can't possibly work, ever, in any other way than 2D; and yet, it's been deeply enough to change (and probably ruin) my entire life.

[Sorry, OP, for the derail. But I wanted to share this an just took the occasion.]

Post edited on 27th Jun 2011, 8:09am

>>3487
Not that guy, but personally I think that's up to the person in my opinion

I don't consider her any less real. She's not a concept or something, she's a person
It's just she doesn't exist here, in this world. She exists somewhere, but not here
Refer to the multiverse theory

>>3493
>multiverse theory
Do you even understand it, at least enough to have the right to use it as an argument (for anything)? I don't.

Post edited on 27th Jun 2011, 12:19pm

>>3493
If the multiverse theory is true, yes, your waifu and mine do really exist. But as far as we're concerned they don't exist beyond concepts, because we can never reach those particular universes where they live. Even if there were a way to travel from our universe to another, the astronomically huge and possibly infinite number of alternate universes means our chances of finding our waifus would be so close to zero as to not make a difference.

I just saw someone else with the same waifu as me post something about her and it felt like a punch in the chest. I've always told myself if I did find someone who shares my waifu I should just be happy that she's making other people's lives happier as well, but it's just damn hard. But I'm also glad because my feeling this way has cleared any doubt about whether I really do love her or not.

>>3490
That certainly is a Sartre like mode of thought. Have you read Being and Nothingness? His thoughts are very similar.

>>3504
No. I am (or was) kind of familiar with Heidegger's existencial analityc from Being and Time, in wich also first appeared "the nothingness" as a formal (necessary) object of study; but I wouldn't say it specially shows on that post, or didn't do it on purpose, anyway. Gues I'll might check on that; thanks.

>>3506
I don't think this is some /a/ related faggotry. It just seems to me that someone had a different view on it and felt like expressing it. I've never understood the whole sharing the same girl thing. I don't think there's anything wrong with being jealous.

Post edited on 27th Jun 2011, 9:18pm

>>3506
Thanks for calling everyone with a different opinion a faggot.

Personally, I tend to interprete characters quite different from what they were intended to be anyway.

And I don't see a problem with 2 people loving the same person at all.

>>3497
I will admit, I have but a grasp of it.
In the end, it's just a way for me to rationalize this

>>3495
Yes, that is true.
I didn't bring that up because it gives me hope. It's just my personal way to rationalize. Nothing else

>>3516
What I didn't get, at this point, is wich one this different opinion was:

- that waifus are interpretations (or not)?
- that jelaousy is out of place (or not)?
- taht waifus exist in some R^n (or not)?

WTF

>>3520
Well if you read his post again it's pretty obvious.

>>3521

Actually, you misread my point. I don't think you get it yet. Think harder.

>>3523
>All I see here is faggotry
Iunno, seems pretty straightforward.

>>3530
such is the influence of alcohol