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File 131818756461.jpg - (50.82KB , 504x233 , may15shakespeare1.jpg )
6472 No. 6472 [Edit]
What are The Classics /an/?
Sure, everyone has favorites animes, but some works are true classics while other are mere pretenders.
In academic circles, which animes are discussed when the topic get some rare attention in a Communications Department course? Which shows or movies does one need to have seen to be considered a well rounded individual
I suggest, for the sake of further ease in discussing anime in the future, that we define The Classics right here in this thread.
Only mention on show per post so as not to spread yourself too thin, I hope that this thread will eventually allow us to compose a list which most of us, with our fair level of expertise, will be able to agree comprises The Classics. Just to make sure that all of our choices are selection which have stood the test of time, I think that nothing post 2007 should be added, but feel free to break with this suggestion if you see fit.

I will start with an obvious choice: Serial Experiments Lain is a classic
Expand all images
>> No. 6474 [Edit]
>academic circles
>anime

is this a joke?
>> No. 6478 [Edit]
File 13181883758.jpg - (31.59KB , 200x284 , Bokunopico.jpg )
6478
>> No. 6480 [Edit]
>>6478

I second this.
>> No. 6481 [Edit]
Why did you bold, underline, and italicize "The Classics" every time
>> No. 6482 [Edit]
>>4767
>> No. 6491 [Edit]
>>6478
>>6480
please keep the /b/tard shit where it belongs on /a/
>> No. 6494 [Edit]
I nominate Green Green, which I know that most people don't respect, but the show is just a mad all out comedy.
Nobody respects a clown, but everyone loves to laugh.
Whats up with that?
>> No. 6496 [Edit]
>>6491
Well it is a classic as far as H-anime go.

Post edited on 9th Oct 2011, 7:53pm
>> No. 6498 [Edit]
>>6496
yeah, on /a/
>> No. 6499 [Edit]
Akira definitely then. I think the animation still holds up today.
>> No. 6511 [Edit]
>>6491
I'm sorry I offended you by making a joke in your somewhat pretentious, reposted thread. I had forgotten after a while that no fun is allowed here. I will refrain from doing so in the future.
>> No. 6517 [Edit]
>>1346
>> No. 6525 [Edit]
>>6494

I'd nominate it for the most realistic H scene of all time (end of ep. 13).

>>6472

This is what I love about /tc/. On /a/, this would get a shitstorm going. Here, it meets ridicule. I'm glad at least one website recognises the concept of subjectivity.
>> No. 6548 [Edit]
>>6525
Nah, we're too busy arguing about what should or should not be posted to bicker about if a show is shit or amazing.

Also, I think I made this comment back in the ib4f days, but I dislike OP's question as I find the word, "classic" to be too loosely defined by people. Most of the time, it's just a more snobbish way to mean "really really good" but then at other times, people use it to describe that may be flawed but very influential and therefore a "must-see." I'd much prefer it if the question just asked if what anime has been most influential or just really really good.
>> No. 6550 [Edit]
Also, if OP and others do want to get a more legitimate discussion going, you guys should really state your reasons on why you think a particular work is a classic.
>> No. 6582 [Edit]
File 13183883125.jpg - (52.09KB , 400x220 , med.jpg )
6582
>>6548
> I find the word, "classic" to be too loosely defined

I don't think that is necessarily the case. In the world of movies and literature there are a number of works which are inarguably classics regardless if you liked them or not (i.e. Citizen Kane, War and Peace, etc.) and I think that the world of anime probably has a number of titles to which this would also apply.
We could probably herp and derp for weeks over if a popular show Fruits Basket is or isn't a classic, but something like Spirited Away or Perfect Blue is probably above this type of argument.
>> No. 6628 [Edit]
>>6582
I think a pretty good start would be to think of someone you admire at an intellectual level and ask "would he be impressed by this anime?"

For reasons like this, you're going to get responses of "yes" to anime like Lain and "no" to Haruhi.
>> No. 6629 [Edit]
>>6628
You just narrowed it down to like three anime
>> No. 6633 [Edit]
>>6628
Doesn't seem to be a great indicator since Haruhi would go to the "yes" pile.
>>6629
And this. How higher your standards for intelligent are, the less anime you will end up with (generally).
>> No. 6643 [Edit]
>>6633
Just because something is "intelligent" or "serious" doesn't make it good, Thats just a stereotype that ford drivers carry around in their head. You don't seem to understand that the single most difficult thing to do in the entertainment industry is good comedy. After a over a century of recorded media, it takes a lot of genius to come up with gags people haven't seen before.
My own standard for what makes a show/movie good, is if I enjoyed watching it. I enjoyed the first season of Minami-ke just about as much as I enjoyed Lain, but most people would consider SEL a real work of art while Minami-ke is "just a SoL comedy". I've seen some of ABe's humor work, its OK, but nowhere near the Minami-ke level. I doubt the collective behind DMC or Minami-ke could fuck with my head or predict the future the way ABe et al. managed to.
They're equal skills in my opinion.
>> No. 6646 [Edit]
>>6643
> You don't seem to understand that the single most difficult thing to do in the entertainment industry is good comedy.

Err, I don't know how you got that out of me saying that I disagree with >>6628 .
>> No. 6647 [Edit]
>>6646
He just responded to the wrong post.
>> No. 6653 [Edit]
File 131863932017.jpg - (107.73KB , 901x645 , BUSH_ANIME.jpg )
6653
I'll assume by "classics" you mean popular AND generally seen as decent among most fans. Time hasn't affected these shows (with possibly the exception of Sailor Moon) in a negative manner.

Ranma 1/2
Urusei Yatsura
Robot Carnival
Ninja Scroll
Armitage
Slayers
Sorcerer Hunters
Phantom Quest Corp.
Vampire Princess Miyu
Green Legend Ran
Iria: Zeram the Animation
Sailor Moon
Cyborg 009
Kekko Kamen
Blue Seed

All Purpose Cultural Catgirl Nuku Nuku (particularly the OVA)

Tenchi-Muyo and all its derivatives.
Ghost in the Shell
Akira
Most things Miyazaki
Mahoromatic
Galaxy Angel
El Hazard
3x3 Eyes
DragonBall


That's all I've got from the top of my head.
I don't know that much about the mech titles from the 90's era. Not too into mech.
>> No. 6655 [Edit]
File 131864001648.jpg - (844.91KB , 1160x2160 , Aimage_TVanime94.jpg )
6655
>>6653

You know what, nevermind.
/a/ compiled a list of all this stuff... and it is organized.

I'm not posting all of it, but here's an idea.
>> No. 6656 [Edit]
>>6653
Although I kind of like magical girl anime, and have no problem watching old stuff, Sailor Moon has really been affected in a negative manner if you ask me, not by time, but by the Internet.
>> No. 6658 [Edit]
File 131864101759.jpg - (193.87KB , 900x745 , SailorMoon5.jpg )
6658
>>6656

Yeah.
I had a feeling someone would say this, so I made it an exception. Though, one cannot deny it was influential during its time.

It was fucking HUGE in Japan.
My mom used to tape-record Japanese episodes of Sailor Moon (commercials and all) when I was a wee lad. The amount of merchandise/marketing this show received was rather impressive.

I've watched my fair share of Sailor Moon. I'm not afraid to admit it.
>> No. 6659 [Edit]
>>6658

>Japanese

I meant raw.
Silly me.
>> No. 6661 [Edit]
>>6653

>Not too into mech.

Most people who are into mecha are divided when it comes to opinion about 90s. On one hand you've got Giant Robo (which some label as the best mecha series of all time), on the other you've got Gundam fanbase claiming that 90s is where the Gundam franchise started to get bad (some outright blame Wing).

Overall there weren't that many memorable mecha anime from the 90s. After 80s' classics such as Dougram, Votoms or Patlabor the 90s were a disappointment if anything.

... Or at least that's what I've heard from some diehard mecha fans (and - in all honesty - I agree).
>> No. 6663 [Edit]
Alright, HUGE WALLS OF TEXT coming through so my apologies beforehand. I’m really not trying to be pretentious or pseudo-intellectual here, just trying to explain to the OP in detail why I dislike the term “classic.”

>>6582
>In the world of movies and literature there are a number of works which are inarguably classics regardless if you liked them or not (i.e. Citizen Kane, War and Peace, etc.

You didn't address my point. It doesn’t matter if there are works in film or literature that are considered classics. I never questioned if there were classics in anime or not, I questioned how well-defined the term "classic" was.

>>6628
>I think a pretty good start would be to think of someone you admire at an intellectual level and ask "would he be impressed by this anime?"

An okay place to start, I suppose, but it’s still a much too imprecise definition as there’s no real set criteria outlined. 3 criteria that I’ve seen most frequently to define “classic” is exceptional quality, influence, and timelessness so for the rest of my posts, I’ll address why I think those are all still inadequate.
>> No. 6664 [Edit]
>>6663 (cont'd)

The first one, exceptional quality, should be fairly obvious why one might call it imprecise. Not only is it unclear at what degree of quality a work becomes a classic, but there’s also that whole can of worms about objectivity/subjectivity in art.

The second criterion, influence, is a little bit better. Influential works are the ones that tend to stand out and deserve credit regardless of whether one personally likes or dislikes it. I mean, I personally disliked Citizen Kane but I don’t really have a leg to stand on if I were to try to discredit it by ignoring the influence of its filmmaking innovations. But the problem I have with using influence as a criterion is that it’s difficult to measure. For some works, it’s extremely obvious to tell but for others, it’s hard to tell which work influenced what unless direct statements from the creators of subsequent works are issued. Take early mahou shoujo anime for example. How is one supposed to figure out which was more influential to early mahou shoujo anime, Ribon no Kishi, Himitsu no Akko-chan, or Mahou Tsukai Sally? And exactly how much influence is needed for a work to be “classic” anyways? It’s true that Mahou Tsukai Sally helped give birth to the mahou shoujo genre by being the first anime to feature a magical female protagonist but the work itself has largely been forgotten, or should I say overshadowed, by subsequent works like Sailor Moon which redefined the genre into the form that it’s known today. Should both be considered classics or only Sailor Moon? What about works that influenced piles of crap? Twilight has certainly spawned other romance novels with similar concepts and proven to be influential to many teenage girls but does it deserve the classic status?

Now for the third criteria: timeless appeal. If a work remains popular among the populace even after 50, 100, or even a 1000 years, it’s a classic. This is the best definition for classic that I’ve come across so far, though not without problems. One problem with this definition specifically for anime but not in other mediums like music or literature is that the history of anime is simply not that old. Yes, you could technically trace the origins of anime to some animated shorts produced in the first half of the 20th century, but the “anime” as we know of it today really began in the ‘60s when Japanese animators moved increasingly away from Disney/Western-influences. So, to be more lenient, let’s arbitrarily define a “classic anime” as something that can still be enjoyed even after a minimum of 10 years AND still be remembered all those years. The reason why I put an emphasis on the “and” is that there are a ton of old works that, though still enjoyable, has been largely forgotten. So a true classic needs to be of a certain level of quality such that it will not easily be forgotten by time. Unfortunately, this still doesn’t solve my beef with the term “classic” because I have objections against both the timeless enjoyable-factor and being remembered.
>> No. 6665 [Edit]
>>6664 (cont'd)

For the timeless enjoyable-factor, let’s use the Pokemon anime as an example. A little more than 10 years ago, I, like many other children, absolutely adored pokemon and thought it was the greatest show ever. Of course, like with most childhood favourites, once we grow up and develop more “refined” standards, we see that they really weren’t up to par and thus undeserving of the timeless-label. It’s what separates works like Disney’s classic Snow White and the not-so-classic Barney and Friends. But the problem with this is that many of these shows weren’t supposed to appeal to older people. They were specifically designed to appeal to the tastes of children so why should it matter if we can’t enjoy it once we grow up? If you think it does matter, then is the term “classic” exclusive to works that appeal to all demographics? If so, are works like War and Peace truly classics if they don’t appeal to children? Also, when rewatching anime that we saw in our childhoods to see if it was timeless or not, how can we be sure we’re not subconsciously being affected by nostalgia?

Now let’s turn our attention to the second factor, how “well-remembered” something is even after many, many years. It’s entirely possible a given work will be remembered not necessarily because of its merits but rather external factors beyond its control. For instance, consider Ashita no Joe, Candy Candy, and Rose of Versailles, three 70s anime/manga that are commonly labelled classics as they were all well-received both inside and outside Japan and still fondly remembered in the countries that aired it back then. Are these works well-remembered because the works themselves were good? Or is it because they were the first anime seen by the viewers who had never seen anything like it before in cartoons of their native countries and was thus bound to leave more of an impression? There’s also the fact that all 3 of these anime are targeted to children. As kids, we’re much more susceptible to being influenced because of our inexperience with art in general. So it’s entirely possible that a given anime is well-remembered solely because it targeted us when we were most malleable.

So there you have it. My reasons for why I dislike the term “classic.” Just to be clear, I’m not saying “classic works” don’t exist, but merely that it’s just too imprecise for my liking so I’d much rather discuss specific well-defined aspects of a given work. If this were any other board than tohno-chan, I wouldn’t have bothered typing up all this because people would inevitably respond, “you expect me to read all that shit, nigga?” I also agree very much with this fellow >>6643. At the end of the day, the only two useful categories for me to judge art is those I like and those I dislike (I forgot which famous person this quote is from but if anyone knows, I’d be happy if you could jog my memory).
>> No. 6666 [Edit]
>>6643
This is insightful. It's true, you can take a general plot or drama and change a few aspects around, and it will feel more fresh and worthwhile than if you did the same with jokes or comedies.

>>6664
>>6665
All very good points.
>> No. 6668 [Edit]
>>6667
I think that was fairly unnecessary.
>> No. 6670 [Edit]
File 131864690953.jpg - (338.68KB , 1502x907 , anime worth buying.jpg )
6670
>> No. 6671 [Edit]
>>6669
Let me rephrase.

You're mean.
>> No. 6672 [Edit]
>>6670
What's wrong with Bakemonogatari?
>> No. 6679 [Edit]
>>6672
better question would be, what isn't?
>> No. 6686 [Edit]
>>6672
>>6679

I think we should just leave this one alone guys.

To this day, I've yet to see anyone have a civil discussion about this show that wasn't biased.
>> No. 6691 [Edit]
>>6686
This isn't 4chan, there's no reason why people can't have a calm argument about Bakemonogatari. The only thing that matters is if whether or not each side will provide legitimate reasons to support their opinions rather than always sidestepping the issue with lame wisecracks like >>6679.

Post edited on 15th Oct 2011, 9:17pm
>> No. 6692 [Edit]

Post edited on 15th Oct 2011, 10:41pm
>> No. 6693 [Edit]
>>6663
>>6664
>>6665
These are some good points, and many echo my own sentiments.
Having thought about what I would consider a classic anime/manga, I can only think of Azumanga Daioh. It's nearly universally loved in the fandom; it's accessible enough to appeal to casual fans, and also high-quality enough for the more discerning, over-saturated otaku. It was highly influential on a trend that has persisted for a decade, and yet remains better than the vast majority of titles that have imitated it over the years. It's characters remain distinct amongst a sea of cliches.
As for the true timelessness, well, I wouldn't be surprised, but we'll have to wait and see.
>>6691
Bakemonogatari has it's merits. If nothing else, it's visually unique and entertaining, and it came at a time when the industry seemed rather stagnant. Will I want to watch it again in ten, or even five years? Probably not.
>> No. 6695 [Edit]
>>6693
>it's visually unique
You haven't seen many of the shows Shaft has done have you?
>> No. 6696 [Edit]
>>6690
No
>> No. 6699 [Edit]
>>6668
really On any other board I would instantaneously assume this thread was a relatively cleverly disguised recommendation thread.
>> No. 6701 [Edit]
File 131878253950.png - (0.98MB , 1280x720 , Bakemonogatari12.png )
6701
>>6690

I think Bakemonogatari tried to cater to too many audiences at once, thus the split opinions when it comes to the show.

One one hand, it tries to draw in people that prefer plot and action with the decently animated action sequences and supernatural aspects, then tries to draw in the SoL/romance crowd with the shipping/harem aspects.

Imo it should have just stuck with one or the other. It reminds me of that SHAFT Negima adaptation, where it started out action/plot based, then went a completely different direction that I couldn't follow.
>> No. 6703 [Edit]
>>6701
I don't think it was doing that to appeal to different people; it was doing that for variation. All action or all SoL would get boring. Also, it's not like there haven't been successful supernatural SoLs or action harems. You can certainly argue the show didn't balance everything well, but it wasn't flawed from conception.
>> No. 6710 [Edit]
File 131881508145.png - (358.83KB , 1024x819 , xxxholic1024zn3.png )
6710
>>6703

The format for the supernatural elements reminded me a bit of xxxHolic. I initially started watching it (back when it first came out) as a xxxHolic replacement... but was disappointed.

It could have easily stuck with the supernatural part and still been entertaining.

xxxHolic did it... on a much lower budget even.
I'm not crying, just making a comparison.

Imo Bake is a decent SoL, but a sub-par supernatural/psychological series... with high quality animation here and there.
>> No. 6714 [Edit]
>>6710

'Bake' and 'animation' don't belong in one sentence (unless there's 'lack of' in between).
>> No. 6717 [Edit]
File 131885970742.png - (472.16KB , 1080x535 , Bakemonogatari_WIG.png )
6717
>>6714

Eh... it had it's moments.
Even if the ratio was merely 20/80 animation to slide-show.

It's not like SHAFT is poor, I don't understand why they had to do that. They definitely made a profit from this series I must say.

People are suckers.
>> No. 6720 [Edit]
>>6717

They are ridiculously understaffed. They are in constant need of animators. Money is not (the biggest) issue here.
>> No. 6721 [Edit]
>>6717
bakemonogatari and madoka were shaft's big hits, so before it was made they had alot less money
>> No. 6722 [Edit]
>>6672
Of all the shows on that list you could ask about being there, you pick Bakemonogatari, which many are known to hate, nice job bro.
>> No. 6730 [Edit]
>>6722
>Of all the shows on that list many are known to hate, you ask about one many are known to hate
>> No. 6732 [Edit]
>>6721

Ah, good point.
>> No. 6851 [Edit]
>Which shows or movies does one need to have seen to be considered a well rounded individual

No shows are a requirement, and if anything most shows make you square.
>> No. 7266 [Edit]
File 132144118457.jpg - (75.96KB , 468x689 , Zsample-2a6fb27806bbf797dbaa2af5ac0068d8.jpg )
7266
Only anime classics get made into live-action movies. Does this criteria apply?
>> No. 7273 [Edit]
Lotgh
Hidamari Sketch
Hyouge Mono even though subs are still not out.
3x3eyes
Bartender
NGE
FLCL
TTGL
Genshiken
Clannad
ef
Higurashi
NHK
Ichigo Mashimaro
Nodame Cantabile
HxH(1999)
Sailor Moon
Katanagatari
Mahoromatic
He is my master
Monster
Satoshi Kon films
Redline (because of the animation)
Otaku no Video
Pokemon
Slayers
School Days
Haruhi

That´s everything from my side. Discuss.
>> No. 7275 [Edit]
>>7273

>That´s everything from my side. Discuss.

The 'I will just state something controversional without providing any arguments backing my case and leave it at that' method is a pretty common way of trolling (even though I'm quite sure that trolling wasn't your intention but it doesn't change the fact that that's not a way one should go about when it comes to dicussing anything).

Discuss.
>> No. 7276 [Edit]
>>7275
It would be too much of a bother to give reasons for every listed anime there. It is much easier to just write it down so everyone can read it. As far as the "Discuss" goes: I just wanted to know if someone disagrees with one anime or another.
Sorry if my choice of words was misleading.
>> No. 7280 [Edit]
>>7273
Seems like you're just listing off shows you liked.
>> No. 7281 [Edit]
>>7280

"Classics" are subjective, so his list makes sense.
>> No. 7283 [Edit]
>>7280
>>7281
>>7276
See, I told you guys arguing about classics, or any debate for that matter, is pointless unless we have a specific criteria (subjective as that criteria may be) from which to work on.

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