I'm liking maria holic. I do a lot of over analyzing as well, so I can relate to the characters in a way.
Most stuff might not be the kind of stuff you'd like though, but that doesn't make it crap. You could say what you're saying about anything and everything.

This might hold true from your viewpoint
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon's_Law

Baccano!
Eve no Jikan
Kaiba
Tatami Galaxy
Kuuchuu Buranko
Mononoke
Dennou Coil

Lain might be a bit of an unfair thing to compare against, there weren't many shows with anywhere near the depth and creativity and effort as it before then either.

I'm tempted to agree that there is more formulaic crap coming out these days than there was in the past, but I'm also aware that my view is heavily biased since in the past I would only have watched shows that were highly recommended, whereas for the past few years I've been watching everything as it airs and so don't end up avoiding the crap due to not hearing of it, as in the past.

God damn, my opinions are always so half-assed and pointless.

Post edited on 15th Jun 2011, 7:33am

What >>4378 said but I'd add a couple more shows, and that doesn't even include shows which I didn't think were particularly creative, but were highly entertaining nonetheless.

It all just sounds like a bunch of nostalgiafagging to me, to be honest. Shows like Lain weren't common then and they're not common now. I'm just glad that I don't have to sift through all the shit shows that aired back in the 60s~90s because it's usually only the good ones that are memorable enough to get recommended to people in the present.

Same thing goes for manga whenever I hear nothing can hold up to the classics. Pic tangentially related.

Anime now might be now a sea of lolicon anime made for the moe obsessed, but there are still titles floating around out there that aren't only cute girls doing cute things, just as before 2006 anime was a sea of shitty harems with a few good titles floating around, it's not like there was a time when every single animation was a epic masterpiece.

Guys, guys! I watch anime for the entertainment, not to discuss it liberally over tea and crumpets.

>>4383
>it's usually only the good ones that are memorable enough to get recommended to people in the present

And this is why nostalgia is a horrible, horrible thing. You remember the good, but subconsciously block out the bad. There were many, many shitty shows in the 90's. It's the same as it is today, just more computerized. Per season you had 3-4 harem shows nearly identical to one-another airing at the same time and 1-2 interesting shows that were by all accounts mediocre. Throw in some kids shows and a few saturday morning cartoons and you pretty much had an anime season right there.

Really, all that's changed now is that we only sightly moved away from all the pantyshots and open-ended endings towards more fetishes, characters have become more standardized, and production quality has arguably decreased.

Funny, I can't think of a Miyazaki production that isn't the same rehashed morals shit he always makes devoid of any actual plot/development/entertainment.

His movies are beautifully animated, by other people at least.

>>4395

>I can't think of a Miyazaki production that isn't the same rehashed morals shit he always makes devoid of any actual plot/development/entertainment.

My thoughts exactly but I didn't want to say it out loud because at times like this Miyazaki Defense Force usually shows up. Seriously, I can't fathom how this guy can still complain that younger generation lacks creativity after churning out Ponyo.

Hey, I liked what I've seen of Miyazaki's stuff. Yeah, part of it is the high production values, the animation and soundtrack, but they've got a nice epic scale to them.

Miyazaki himself does come off as kind of preachy and full of himself though.

Miyazaki/Ghibli films are always godly.

>>4398
As much as I hate people with overinflated egos, he sorta earned it.

>hating on moe
>on /tc/

Complete heresy!

>>4393
>And this is why nostalgia is a horrible, horrible thing.
Why can't more people think this way?
>>4400
Not really, no.

I'd say nostalgia is a good thing up until the point when you start preaching about how good stuff used to be and how shit it is nowadays. Glorifying and romanticizing past is a human trait no matter how you look at it - it can't be helped.

>>4393

Glad other people have came to this conclusion about things. I might add that when it comes to younger people saying that the past was better its generally because they only get recommended the good stuff, if you've ever just picked a random anime from the 80's chances are its going to be pretty shit. They also had a lot of stereotypes and cliche's then contrary to popular belief.

>>4417
>Glorifying and romanticizing past is a human trait no matter how you look at it - it can't be helped.
Not really, no.

Most people don't care about most anime made in the 70's to 90's. They're mostly forgotten and in the trashbin of history.

>>4423

If you don't think nostalgia is a human trait then you're pretty dense.

Why do you think people study history, and humans repeat the mistakes of the past?

>>4429
Neither of those are nostalgia. Studying history, maybe, but unless you're studying a period you actually lived in, it's just learning; you're not reminiscing about the good ol' days in the Roman Empire. And repeating mistakes of the past is not nostalgia, it's being uneducated.

>>4426
The same is going to happen to 00's anime in a decade.

>>4376
>creativity and effort the Lain had?

I love Lain and everything (shes my waifu), but the show was hardly creative. Its plot was the most cliche and easiest things to write in terms of cyberpunk story telling, and all it did was rely on very lame, elementary quotes from vague scientific theories to bring it all together. Not a bad show, but it wasn't ground breaking or anything.

>>4423

Let me quote somebody here:

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

Looks like a rather recent quote, right? Something somebody would say some 50 years ago? Except it was said by Socrates (or Plato, some argue Socrates himself attributed it to Plato but that's beside the point here). Some pharaoh said almost the same thing, too (couldn't find the quote).

People have been complaining like that for thousands of years. This isn't exactly new and isn't going away anytime soon. By now it would be stupid to deny that malcontency is part of human history and human nature.

I haven't seen as much anime as a lot of you, so I don't know how much current original work has been produced compared to adaptations vs. ten years ago or the quality of that work. But I have seen quite a few Miyazaki movies, so I can say that these remarks don't carry a lot of weight coming from a guy who's been using the exact same themes in his work for almost thirty years now. He just sounds like a bitter old man.

Hes a twat who made a few subjectively good productions, got a high off it, and thinks he's the supreme authority on what is and isn't anime. He's kind of always been like that. To him, what you see on TV isn't anime. Anime is "high class" swill like the stuff he does.

>>4440
You keep trying to attach things only marginally related to the topic (at best). Exactly how do grumpy old men complaining about rebellious children prove that everyone naturally gets nostalgic? There are countless people - older than Socrates was when he wrote this - that would sooner kill themselves than dwell on the past. I never said there's no such thing as malcontent; I said just because someone doesn't like things as they are, that doesn't automatically mean they thought things were better back in the day. It is possible to think things will be better in the future.

And don't do the arrogant "Looks like a rather recent quote, right?" thing. No, it doesn't.

>>4440
that's not nostalgia either.
nostalgia is delusional, and its not an irremovable part of human nature. sure it's common, but so are alot of delusional thoughts and feelings, that doesn't give it any validity. some people dont feel the need to idolize the past.

>>4447

>Exactly how do grumpy old men complaining about rebellious children prove that everyone naturally gets nostalgic?

They focus on what was good back when they were young and ignore all the problems. That's every how 'back in the good old days' looks like.

>I said just because someone doesn't like things as they are, that doesn't automatically mean they thought things were better back in the day.

Actually all you said was 'not really, no'. Hard to argue with a denial like that.

>It is possible to think things will be better in the future.

Doesn't change the fact that there are just as many people who would rather say that everything is shit nowadays.

>No, it doesn't.

Depends on what do you define as 'recent'. It was very popular in the 60s and considering how vast our (as a race) history is I'd definitely say stuff that happened in the 60s is pretty recent.

>>4448

>that's not nostalgia either.

I said 'glorifying and romanticizing past is a human trait'. It might not be nostalgia (but I still would argue it is) but it's definitely the latter.

>its not an irremovable part of human nature

Again, this depends on what do you think about when you hear words 'part of human nature'. Nostalgic inclinations is definitely a trait that has been obviously noticeable throughout the history in all eras. Sometimes it was more visible, sometimes less but overall there were always people who felt that way.

Until he stops having little girls, or moe blobs in the case of ponyo, I don't think he really has much right to complain.
currently airing shows, such as Kaiji for one, already beat him out on his own game, because Kaiji doesn't have a single little girl anywhere in it ever, where as his stuff is almost always centered around little girls.

>>4450

Not to imply at ALL that that's a bad thing.

>>4451
of course not, That just seems to be one of his main problems with anime I think, that so much of it is just, as the retards of /a/ would put it "moeshit", anime that focuses primarily on little girls being cute.

Is there are real reason why Miyazaki can't have young boys as the protagonists in his films? maybe even grown women/men?

I personally like anime with cute girls, but if he thinks that's wrong, why does he keep using them?

Post edited on 18th Jun 2011, 4:20pm

>>4452

>Is there are real reason why Miyazaki can't have young boys as the protagonists in his films? maybe even grown women/men?

Yes - they would automatically lose half of their appeal. The other half is animation by the way. Watching his movies for the stories itself isn't exactly a good idea.

I watched Mononoke, Nausicaa, Spirited Away and Cagliostro mainly for the incredibly good animation, the stories weren't the strong points of either movie imo as none of them made me think for more than 30 seconds. I didn't bother with the rest of Ghiblis stuff for the reason that's it's always the same rehashed garbage, I'd prefer to watch Disney movies instead for their entertainment value, seriously.

>>4452
He enjoys portraying women as strong.

>>4449
>Actually all you said was 'not really, no'. Hard to argue with a denial like that.
I explained in another post.

>Doesn't change the fact that there are just as many people who would rather say that everything is shit nowadays.
...That's exactly my point. Some people think everything in the past was better, some people think everything in the past was worse. Neither is hardwired into humanity.

>>4455
Then why not have strong women? why have little girls?

>>4459
Because adults and children alike can identify with little girls.

>>4376
You seriously need to watch Boogiepop Phantom

>>4376

Why Lain of all things?
What about Mushishi, Mononoke, Gankutsuou, Le Chevalier D'eon, and Welcome to the Space Show?

I mean, that's just a few but I think you're being really rigid here in your thinking.

Ultimately, they have to go with what sells.
The "formulaic" stuff you mentioned happens to sell the most... mainly because the majority isn't into creativity and "something new and innovative."

They can't even think of making something "different" without adhering to the formulas the majority is so familiar with. So expect to see loli, panty-shots, pairings, and onsen/umi scenes in nearly every series you watch.

That's just how things are for the moment.

>>5597

Oh, and just for the record, when I say "majority" I'm referring to the people that actually buy things.

>>5597
Gankutsuou wasn't good though

>>5606

Well, I liked it.
It's too bad you couldn't appreciate its value.

>>5611
Then tell me one good thing about it. The only thing I liked was the artwork and how pretty everything was, but the story was average. It didn't do any justice to the original Count of Monte Cristo.

>>5612

The artwork... music... and the count.
He was awesome.

>>4376

>I'm beginning to agree with what Miyazaki and all his pals said about how anime is dying because people just make formulaic crap these days. I can't think of a show that I thought was genuinely good that was made more recently than 2006.

Okay, okay.

When was the last time someone made anime with anywhere near the depth of creativity and effort the Lain had?

>Lain

9/10, OP. 9/10.

Every year you'll find at least one series that will match the creativity found in Lain. Unfortunately, Lain isn't that creative, as the concepts have been explored in common sci-fi books and shows for a very long time. In short, bad thread.

>>5643
badmouthing SEL as being shallow and uncreative and then calling OP a troll? thats fairly ironic, don't you think?

>>5649
Maybe not everyone thinks lain is the godly opium of anime some people praise it as?

>>5650
Just because people have different opinions, that doesn't mean they're trolling.

True, but the serious opinion-as-fact tone of OP's post sounds like a typical, /a/-level troll-thread topic.

Any topic that starts with Miyazaki, contains the words formulaic crap/creativity, and ends with Lain is just begging for a flood of disagreements. I knew where the thread was going to go before I read a single post.

>>5651
Exactly.

>>5654
Maybe he is trolling, I don't know (I doubt it), but even if he is, accusing someone of being a troll just makes it worse. Don't feed them, etc.

>>5648

>Every year you'll find at least one series that will match the creativity found in Lain. Unfortunately, Lain isn't that creative, as the concepts have been explored in common sci-fi books and shows for a very long time. In short, bad thread.

Whether Lain is good or not is kinda besides the point here I think. The thread isn't about Lain afterall.

>>5650

>Maybe not everyone thinks lain is the godly opium of anime some people praise it as?

I didn't really like Lain that much either (Haibane Renmei was much better by the way) but that doesn't mean all the fans of the show are trolling you know.

>>5654

>True, but the serious opinion-as-fact tone of OP's post sounds like a typical, /a/-level troll-thread topic.

No, sorry, that's just you.

>I knew where the thread was going to go before I read a single post.

Care to explain where was it headed, exactly? Aside from my argument with giascle (that had little to do with the matter at hand) there was no tension and people were discussing their POV on the matter peacefully. It took almost 2 months (and a person straight out of 4chan judging by the pic) to actually label OP as a troll. If anyone is shitposting here it's you.

Whether OP means what he said or not is irrelevant. Many decent discussions start with a slight (or not) provocation. Labeling people who don't agree with your opinion as trolls doesn't make you look like experienced troll hunter, it makes you look like a shitposter who does his best to render further discussion meaningless.

>Any topic that starts with Miyazaki, contains the words formulaic crap/creativity

Funny as even fans of Miyazaki agree his movies are awfully similar.

>>5657

Why the hostility sir?

Keep in mind I'm not one of the people that referred to you as a "troll."

I was merely stating the reasons why some posters might have come to that conclusion.

It's because Miyazaki is a troll.

>>5657
I never said the fans are trolls, I don't see how you can get that from my message, all I was saying is that not everyone likes the same stuff.

This is dumb.