>The US has very little of that since we started off from a blank slate not all that long ago.

The US actually has a very large folk tradition, and it wasn't done from scratch. Appalachian folk for example is heavily influenced by Scottish folk tradition while places like New Jersey had a far greater Irish influence. The point being that the folk tradition of the United States is a divergent development of other styles. To say that it is a small tradition is just wrong.

The Civil War especially is probably one of the most important events in the development of American folk tradition because the nature of camp life necessitated easy to play and easy to sing songs that reflected the everyday lives and desires of those singing them. John Brown's Body is even allegedly a song that was made up by one regiment to make a joke at the expense of one of their comrades who shared a name with the abolitionist. Also if you listen to enough, you will see that often times certain versions have just ripped lines from other local songs and transplanted them into another. Shady Grove and Cindy especially are very guilty of having a lot of interchangeable stanzas.

The folk tradition isn't perhaps as old as some places, but it is there and it is developed. Songs like Green Shenandoah and Tenting Tonight are every bit as moving as older songs, and stories like that of John Henry are every bit as inspiring as the heroes of other traditions, it's just born in an era of industrialism instead of some mythic past.

I'm not qualified to talk about the rest however, so I'll just leave my post there.

I think a major part of the issue is the impatience (I don't want to say 'short attention span' as that trivializes or psychologizes it too much) prevalent in society.

In the 21st century, it has become easy for cowards to take advantage of such things as general as political correctness and as specific as the anonymity of our image boards to hide, stand at a distance, and manipulate the situation to avoid any blame. For instance, politicking and doctrinaire intentions within entertainment industries. At this very moment there are people who believe the country is better off than it was eight years ago. All this is because of this generation's skill at building shields and choosing scapegoats, no matter how blatant the truth is. Perhaps those of us who are more patient have tolerated it too much.

The reason I think the patience of the individual matters as much as the age and venerability of the people's culture is because the lack of it - equipped with these recent societal changes - is what leads people to flock to that horrid way of life. I'm of a very ancient cultural background and I'm also an American. I don't know much of the folklore of either sources, but I know that the 2nd paragraph of the OP describes something that can hardly coexist with the traditions. There's not much that's commercial about the stories and 'culture' if not the people as a whole. The mode of transmission, simply talking, is simple and there has never been much room for those tricks I mentioned.

But nowadays, not only do selfish people (such as the so-called shit-posters of our image boards) get away with things, the ones who can stop them let it happen. There's no more authority. The same goes for ancient lore as well, because in the 21st century, at least in the West, forcing people to pay respect to things (even harmlessly) is frowned upon. All it takes for evil to triumph is for a few good men to do nothing. And these traditions can disappear.

I think it goes back to a whole complex of values relating to honor, code, and loyalty that humanity has mostly had, but is getting taken underground as mass society becomes degenerate. Not only do the heroes in the stories abide by these values, but to even take the time to pay attention to what's going on, takes these values, as does the time to form them, or to form interesting thoughts as I hope this post is and believe yours is.

The other poster mentioned how America has this culture, but it's not from any mythical age. Well that hiding behind shields I was talking about had perhaps begun long before the 19th century. Yet the culture often survives. Why? Some would say that that fact disproves the notion that the last generation was better, which is found in most generations. But look at the screen in front of you, at the page on the screen, at the letters printed on the page - the further in you go, the more basic a development which these traditions never needed.

So I say, in conclusion, that it's high time to recognize that that which is individual, and nuclear, is something invulnerable to the annihilations of the cowardly bandwagoning of the masses if only we make sure that that which is on the inside always outweighs that which is external. This nation may have been founded on modern principles but we can still prevail in maintaining the knowledge if we know we have nothing to fear from the degenerate hordes, and don't play the game by their rules. Even if it takes an avid devotion to Japan.

Also disregard my rhetorical tone of trying to convince people; this may be like the disease you spoke of.

>>156
You're right, that is all there. I think the problem is just that it has very little influence in day to day life or culture, at least in these parts. I've never even heard of those songs you've mentioned. That's one of the things I'm talking about. It's nice to see stuff like exists, but it's been made so obscure that you essentially have to be a history buff to know anything about half that stuff. How often does any of that come up in daily life compared to 80s pop songs? It should be clear which one has more influence over modern culture.

Goebbels said a similar thing, way back in the 1940s. It is almost like he and his crew were trying to prevent this from happening.


'They [Americans] cannot believe that there are cultural values that are the result of centuries of historical development, which cannot simply be bought. It was no bad joke when, after the war, they bought the ruins of German castles and moved them stone by stone to the U.S.A. They really thought that they had purchased a piece of national history embodied in stone, and were naive enough to think that mocking laughter from Europe was respect for the wealth that enabled them to buy what their own tradition and culture lacked.'

'The U.S.A. has no poets, no painters, no architects or composers of world stature. Whatever culture it has is borrowed from Europe. The land lacks its own language, culture, and civilization. It has borrowed everything, generally debasing it by Americanizing it, never improving it. Americanization is a kind of kitschification that gives every cultural value an American stamp, turning a mature language into slang, the waltz into jazz, a work of literature into a crime story.'

'We have a level of culture and civilization that is denied to most Americans. One who understands this can hardly have much sympathy for what they understand as culture and civilization. Although we affirm the technical achievements of our age, we see behind them an intellectual strength that grows from the roots of our people. Machines are a means to an end, not an end in themselves. As much as we appreciate the achievements of modern civilization and use them to improve life, we know that they are not the sole meaning of life. There are national values that are the result of centuries of history and tradition. They cannot be purchased, only built by the labor of generations.'

'If the Americans lacked money, they would probably be the most despised people in the world.'

You've brought up some good points, but I feel you are being a bit narrow-minded on some of the issues you presented.

First off, the United States can already trace back it's history to the settlers in the early 1600's. That would give us 400+ years of heritage. Quite a few significant developments have taken place within that time span that have shaped our culture for better or worse.

Next, intellectual property along with capitalism are by no means sole American concepts. We essentially borrowed our law framework from Britain who borrowed from the many invaders of the Isles (along with whatever the "natives" conceived). This doesn't mean it isn't a part of our culture, I'm just stating that it these are things that have been in practice before our own nation.

>>159
The fact that our culture stems from borrowed concepts does not invalidate what we've fused it into. Like _all_ cultures the United States is a fusion of the different groups of people that have settled into the region. However, because it is a country developed in a time where different groups of people across the world could travel easier and quicker, it has a more vast pool of people that help shape the culture compared to the millennia before it. To call the achievements the United States has contributed to the world in all fields debasements is outright vindictive ignorance.

>>160
I wasn't done with this, shit. Oh well, I guess I'll reply with a finished version.

Please let me know if any of this is logically inconsistent. I have a habit of going off on tangents and I am not necessarily confident in my own thought patterns. Just consider it food for thought.
>>160
You've brought up some good points, but I feel you are being a bit narrow-minded on some of the issues you presented.

First off, the United States can trace back it's history to the settlers in the early 1600's. That would give us 400+ years of heritage. Quite a few significant developments have taken place within that time span that have shaped our culture for better or worse.

Next, intellectual property along with capitalism are by no means sole American concepts. We essentially borrowed our law framework from Britain who borrowed from the many invaders of the Isles (along with whatever the "natives" conceived). This doesn't mean it isn't a part of our culture, I'm just stating that it these are things that have been in practice before our own nation (and thus part of other countries cultures).

Also, as far as I know old books and the like are public domain 70 years after the author's death. There is a lot of classic American literature that is now in the public domain that you can get for free from places like http://www.gutenberg.org. I am no law expert but I believe corporations are somehow able to weasel out of this. Just letting you know the classic American staples are safe and free.

Alright, now for an actual counterargument; Single-entities controlling a fictional piece. I'm not arguing for or against companies controlling these, but rather the idea that the creator's decisions should be canon. I think it makes sense that the person who creates the fictional universe is the one who gets to decides what happens to it, otherwise the people enjoying it don't have any true piece of information to base discussion off of. How are you supposed to form arguments and debate with people without these atoms of truth? I'm not saying that _our_ world works so cleanly, but that it is the only way for the majority people to form consensus about it. Or you could just, you know, believe your own head-canon and not talk to people about it.

>>159
The fact that our culture stems from borrowed concepts does not invalidate what we've fused it into. Like _all_ cultures the United States is a fusion of the different groups of people that have settled into the region. However, because it is a country developed in a time where different groups of people across the world could travel easier and quicker, it has a more vast pool of people that have helped shape the culture compared to the millennia before it. To call the achievements the United States has contributed to the world in all fields debasements is outright vindictive ignorance.

>>160
>To call the achievements the United States has contributed to the world in all fields debasements is outright vindictive ignorance.
Name one good piece of USA cultural heritage.


'One is never sure which of two characteristics is more prominent in the American national character and therefore of the greater significance: naivete or a superiority complex.'

>>163
Let's see if any of this satisfies your subjective request:

Rock 'n' Roll. The long list of contributions to computers including the invention of what is now the Internet. Cowboys and the wild west. The sports we've adapted or created. The many fine authors that are American. Movies. Video games. Guns. Cool space stuff. A long list of other cool science stuff.

>'One is never sure which of two characteristics is more prominent in the American national character and therefore of the greater significance: naivete or a superiority complex.'
For one, I am not someone who believes in pride. I do not see these achievements or creations as my own, nor am I patriotic. However, when I see someone who is misinformed, willfully or not, I cannot help but counter with some actual facts.

>>164
>The long list of contributions to computers including the invention of what is now the Internet.
You have only proven you did not read everything I quoted from Goebbels.
'Machines are a means to an end, not an end in themselves. As much as we appreciate the achievements of modern civilization and use them to improve life, we know that they are not the sole meaning of life.'

>Cowboys and the wild west.
Yeah, totally on par, historically/culturally, with Teutonic Knights and the Crusades, totally.

>The sports we've adapted or created
You think anyone gives a shit about American football outside of America?
'They [Americans] really believe that Europeans are eagerly waiting to hear from them and follow their advice.'

>The many fine authors that are American.
Many is pushing it.

>[American] Movies
Mostly trash.

>Video games
Made by Americans? Usually trash.

>Guns
Yeah, America invented guns.

>Cool space stuff
Yeah, America created the Vergeltungswaffe 2 rocket.
'Operation Paperclip was a secret United States Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency (JIOA) program in which more than 1,600 German scientists, engineers, and technicians (many of whom were formerly registered members of the Nazi Party and some of whom had leadership roles in the Nazi Party), including Wernher von Braun's rocket team, were recruited and brought to the United States for government employment from post-Nazi Germany (after World War II).[1][2]'

>A long list of other cool science stuff
Once again, Operation Paperclip.


>However, when I see someone who is misinformed, willfully or not, I cannot help but counter with some actual facts.
'The less they [Americans] know about a matter, the more confidently they speak.'
'We would not say anything if the U.S.A. were aware of its intellectual and moral defects and was trying to grow up. But it is too much when it behaves in an impudent manner toward a part of the earth with a few thousands years of glorious history behind it, attempting to teach it moral and intellectual lessons, whether out of innocence or a complete lack of genuine culture and learning. We can forgive the mistakes of youth, but this degree of arrogance gets on one’s nerves.'

>/tat/ - Actual Nazis
great idea tohno, I totally feel /tc/ needs some stormfront politics in addition to the normal misanthropy and elitism

>>166
You're quite the slow one if you don't know that most animefags that visit chans are nationalists, of various forms. Hell, a good chunk of Japanese nationalists also are into Japanese otaku entertainment.

Unfortunately for the both of us, original /pol/ was never the same after A/pol/calypse Day (2014) and nowadays is under constant raiding by /leftypol/.
And way too many Libertarians, for my taste. They somehow became the main group, yet haters still think /pol/ is National Socialist.

>>165
>'They [Americans] really believe that Europeans are eagerly waiting to hear from them and follow their advice.'

Maybe Europeans should follow some American advice considering they're currently being taken over by the Middle East. Guns may just be a machine, but gun ownership is part of our culture. Though I admit that is fading fast.

>>166
Take it to /fb/.

>>165
You asked me to provide you with one good piece US culture. Things that are part of American history. This does not necessarily mean the United States was the first to create whatever I listed, although it has plenty of things it did invent. Seems like you've agreed that there is something.

>You have only proven you did not read everything I quoted from Goebbels.
I'll respond to this because it is the only argument you seem to be making. First off, I read that, and I have not said nor implied that modern inventions are the sole meaning of life. What I am saying is that these are very much an element of culture. I do not agree that the achievements of the modern day is any less a part of a culture than the ancient inventions of a time long ago. The effects of a mere "machine" such as a computer has had one of the most profound effects on our entire species, and will only continue to influence it. How is that any different from a relic of an ancient people?

>>169
Operation Paperclip, again.
At this point, you are not reading anything.

>>168
>considering they're currently being taken over by the Middle East
Sorry, but who is it that is de-stabilising the Middle East? America
Who forced Europe to adopt Liberal constitutions? America.

>>170
>Sorry, but who is it that is de-stabilising the Middle East? America
So Europe is so weak that it can't handle this?

>Who forced Europe to adopt Liberal constitutions? America.
I don't know much of the history involved, but again it seems that Europe must have already been weak to get put into that position.

Maybe you see political and military strength as merely a means to an end, similar to a machine? Though invaders are currently destroying centuries old artwork in Europe...

>Operation Paperclip, again.
What the hell are you trying to say, exactly? Your pure notAryan Germans are responsible for every American technological achievement?

>>171
>So Europe is so weak that it can't handle this?
Not allowed to handle it. Because of Liberal constitutions and Liberalism enforced during the 'liberation' of Europe.

>I don't know much of the history involved
The part where America hangs all non-Liberals. You know? After World War Two.


>>172
I am not German, I am not even White. Now who's the real racist? I never said anything about race to begin with.
America was super racist in the 1940s, way more racist that Nazi Germany. Americans have no right to call Germans racist.
'Later, on October 15, 1936 Owens repeated this allegation when he addressed an audience of African Americans at a Republican rally in Kansas City remarking that "Hitler didn't snub me – it was our president who snubbed me. The president didn't even send me a telegram."[32][33]'

>are responsible for every American technological achievement?
Yes.
'We are not impressed by American big talk and orgies of numbers. We know well enough that the trees do not grow as high as heaven on the other side of the Atlantic either. As far as God’s country goes, Europeans discovered it and give it life even today. Were it left to its own resources, it would soon return once more to desert and prairie, as wide and as empty as the souls of its people.'


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_aerospace_engineers_in_the_United_States
'engineers, scientists and technicians specializing in rocketry who originally came from Germany but spent most of their careers working for the NASA space program in Huntsville, Alabama.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_of_NASA
'Stever's committee included consultation from the Army Ballistic Missile Agency's large booster program, referred to as the Working Group on Vehicular Programs, headed by the World War II German scientist Wernher von Braun,[2] brought to the US in Operation Paperclip.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
'Key recruits by Operation Paperclip (incomplete list)
-Aeronautics and Rocketry-
Hans Amtmann, Herbert Axster, Erich Ball, Oscar Bauschinger, Hermann Beduerftig, Rudi Beichel, Anton Beier, Herbert Bergeler, Magnus von Braun, Wernher von Braun, Theodor Buchhold, Walter Burose, G N Constan, Werner Dahm, Konrad Dannenberg, Kurt H. Debus, Gerd De Beek, Walter Dornberger, Gerhard Drawe, Friedrich Duerr, Ernst R. G. Eckert, Otto Eisenhardt, Krafft Arnold Ehricke, Alfred Finzel, Edward Fischel, Karl Fleischer, Herbert Fuhrmann, Ernst Geissler, Werner Gengelbach, Dieter Grau, Hans Gruene, Herbert Guendel, Fritz Haber, Heinz Haber, Karl Hager, Guenther Haukohl, Karl Heimburg, Emil Hellebrand, Gerhard Heller, Bruno Helm, Rudolf Hermann, Bruno Heusinger, Guenther Hintze, Heinz-Hermann Koelle, Sighard F. Hoerner, Oscar Holderer, Hans Hosenthien, Walter Jacobi, Erich Kaschig, Ernst Klaus, Theodore Knacke, Siegfried Knemeyer, Gustav Kroll, Werner Kuers, Hermann H. Kurzweg, Hermann Lange, Hans Lindenberg, Hans Lindenmayr, Alexander Martin Lippisch, Hans Maus, Helmut Merk, Joseph Michel, Hans Milde, Heinz Millinger, Rudolf Minning, Willy Mrazek, Hans Multhopp, Erich Neubert, Hermann Oberth (advisor), Hans von Ohain, Robert Paetz, Hans Palaoro, Kurt Patt, Hans Paul,Theodor Poppel, Werner Rosinski, Heinrich Rothe, Ludwig Roth, Arthur Rudolph, Fredrich von Saurma, Martin Schilling, Helmut Schlitt, Albert Schuler, August Schulze, Walter Schwidetzky, Ernst Steinhoff, Wolfgang Steurer, Ernst Stuhlinger, Kurt Tank, Bernhard Tessmann, Adolf Thiel, Georg von Tiesenhausen, Werner Tiller, J.G. Tschinkel, Arthur Urbanski, Fritz Vandersee, Werner Voss, Theodor Vowe, Herbert A. Wagner, Hermann Weidner, and Walter Fritz Wiesemann

-Architecture-
Heinz Hilten and Hannes Luehrsen.

-Electronics - including guidance systems, radar and satellites-
Wilhelm Angele, Ernst Baars, Josef Boehm, Hans Fichtner, Hans Friedrich, Eduard Gerber,Georg Goubau, Walter Haeussermann, H. Otto Hirschler, Otto Hoberg, Rudolf Hoelker, Hans Hollmann, Helmut Hölzer, Horst Kedesdy, Kurt Lehovec, Kurt Lindner, J.W. Muehlner, Fritz Mueller, Johannes Plendl, Fritz Karl Preikschat, Eberhard Rees, Gerhard Reisig, Harry Ruppe, Heinz Schlicke, Werner Sieber, Albin Wittmann, Hugo Woerdemann, Albert Zeiler, and Hans K. Ziegler.

-Material Science (high temperature)-
Claus Scheufelen and Rudolf Schlidt.

-Medicine – including biological weapons, chemical weapons, and space medicine-
Theodor Benzinger, Rudolf Brill, Konrad Johannes Karl Büttner, Richard Lindenberg, Walter Schreiber, Hubertus Strughold and Erich Traub.

-Physics-
Gunter Guttein, Gerhard Schwesinger, Helmut Weickmann, and Friedwardt Winterberg.

>>163
>>165
It seems to be that you, personally, have an inferiority complex rather than the entirety of US culture and its citizens having a superiority complex.

The only tangential merit to such an absurd claim would be that the US is marginally more nationalistic than your country that likely goes through great lengths to celebrate "vibrant diversity".

>>174
Sorry, but who hanged all the nationalists in Europe after WWII? America.

>Yes.
Of course you do. I'm done here.

>I'm done here
You were done the moment you began, fucking Liberal.

>>174
Who literally supported Marxism during World War Two? America.

Please refrain from posting pictures of 3D people.

>>175
The US was pretty much an isolationist nation (and a "racist" one, did you say?) at the beginning of WW2. Were Japan not stupid enough to directly attack them, you and your country would probably not exist today.

>>179
>you and your country would probably not exist today.
First you joke about how Europe is multiculti, now, in light of the fact that it is Americas fault, you say Europe is lucky to even exist. Your points are childish. You genuinely think Hitler was a comic book villian. Or you are making a mockery of me.

>The US was pretty much an isolationist nation
''The outbreak of the Second Sino-Japanese War in 1937 saw aid flow into the Republic of China, from the United States under President Franklin D. Roosevelt. A series of Neutrality Acts had been passed in the US with the support of isolationists who forbade American aid to countries at war. Because the Second Sino-Japanese War was undeclared, however, Roosevelt denied that a state of war existed in China and proceeded to send aid to Chiang''

>and a "racist" one, did you say?
I quoted an American Black man, from the 1930s, saying the USA president was worse to him than literally Hitler, literally literally Hitler.


This is a deliberate joke, everything you say simply causes me to repeat myself.
Whatever man, I'm bored of it which either way it is. At the very least you have been a tool, for me, to simply dump National Socialist propaganda.

I think the bigger problem is that nobody gives a damn about our culture, our history. It's routinely reshaped, reinterpreted and thrown to the side for whatever cheap thrill comes next. When you talk to the average American today they don't know many of our influential figures. They're not even familiar with the founders outside of what they've been told by the media, who distort it wildly. Liberals honestly believe Jefferson was a closet muslim and conservatives honestly believe Franklin (among others) were fire and brimstone conservatives. Granted, you can't really blame people too much. Whites are instilled with massive guilt and browns are given colossal inferiority complexes. It's no wonder people go to such lengths to invent clear bullshit, they're all suffering trauma from things that they never did or experienced. The lies wouldn't be so bad if they weren't ripping the country apart.

I actually somewhat agree with >>159 despite despising his tone of "America never made anything good.". We DO lack great artists, philosophers, scientists. We have them, but how many? And of those how many are first, second generation immigrants instead of people who've put roots down into this soil? In fact a lot of them are people who've just came here because of economics; not because they actually wanted to come here.

And America, it seems to take people in and rip them apart. When I look around the people who've been here for most of our history aren't that well off. People come in, do well for a time and begin to degenerate. I'd know because my family is no different. We've lived in the same general area for almost two-hundred years. The first several generations did great. We owned huge farms, took part in local politics, people had dozens of children. But now... well, we're shit. Reduced to emotional children without a clue in affairs of finance, nature, philosophy, religion. Just barking about some perceived slight or inconvenience so we can pretend we have worth, pretend we're something. Disgusting.

People like us, people discontent with the current state of affairs. We need to work on creating new culture. On changing our culture. Because if we don't other people will, and look at where that's gotten us. If we want a better future, all we can do is fight, take back what's rightfully ours, and fix what these last several generations have ruined. And if we only get the framework of the house built, then fine, it's better than nothing.

>>180
Your seem to be confused. I'm not the same person you were arguing with above; you are rambling on about nothing.

Never once have I stated Hitler to be a villain.

Post edited on 13th May 2017, 3:58pm

>>181
all we can do is fight, take back what's rightfully ours