NEET is not a label, it's a way of life!

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11778 No. 11778 [Edit]
What are your thoughts on a NEET register?

By this I mean that any able bodied person under 30 who is not clearly disabled and known to be receiving welfare payments is put on a register and then placed in basic employment 101 classes where they learn a variety of simple skills tailored to their personality (determined by psychological testing) like - warehousing skills, basic licenses like forklift tickets, cash handling, customer service, cleaning, etc... all of this would be combined with mandatory counseling with mental health professionals and mandatory health and fitness classes with trainers.

Also, there would be a 3 strikes policy where refusal to comply would result in their payments being stopped and they would be sent to military style boot camps.

Thoughts?

Something like this seems draconian but hell, it would help me a lot.
>> No. 11779 [Edit]
Hm. Impractical by private means given the present long-term labor surplus in developed countries. Would require government to institute an employer of last resort program like the WPA.

I kinda like the idea I guess? Dunno about the rest of you, but for me the process of getting a job is really scary--resumes and interviews and applications and being judged and being confused. If it was just a matter of showing up at the local bureau it wouldn't be so bad, maybe.
>> No. 11780 [Edit]
>Something like this seems draconian but hell, it would help me a lot.

Then go to an employment agency or trade school, or join the military. Why do the rest of us need to be put on some government registry bullshit for something you're already free to go and get on your own?
>> No. 11781 [Edit]
can i be a starving artist
>> No. 11782 [Edit]
>>11781
No, just starving
>> No. 11783 [Edit]
There arent enough jobs out there. If the employment rate is 5%, 8%, whatever it is where you live, it means that bottom part of society wont be able to find a job.

and of course its kind of hard (impossible) for politicians to "create jobs" anymore since everything is outsourced to developing countries.

The government where I live already has something like employment 101 classes for people who remain unemployed. They could do more things like OP suggests but at what cost?
>> No. 11784 [Edit]
>>11780
Because I'm not being forced to, of course. Don't underestimate the inertia of depression.

>>11783
I know nothing about economics. But I think unemployment is partially because of people unwilling to settle for crappier jobs. Competition for jobs helps the economy to an extent because it lowers salaries. Companies would be able to get more competent labor at a lower price.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
>> No. 11785 [Edit]
I don't like it.

Post edited on 15th Sep 2012, 1:54am
>> No. 11786 [Edit]
>>11784
It's also partly because people like me don't know how to find jobs. I would literally work for anything. Haruhi fucking dammit. I just want a fucking job. I'm going to go cry now if that's okay.
>> No. 11787 [Edit]
>>11784
>Don't underestimate the inertia of depression.
Really? If somebody tried to force me into a job while I was at my worst, it'd only make things worse. Hell, if they got REALLY serious about it, it probably would be the thing that would push me into suicide.
>> No. 11788 [Edit]
>>11787
So true.

Forcing people to do things usually don't bring any good.
>> No. 11789 [Edit]
>>11788
I guess that's true. But when I was really depressed, I would have liked a job (like I still do). I guess it depends on the person and their specific causes behind their depression. How into jobs? I cannot into jobs. I'm so fucked, but at least I'm not as miserable as I used to be. It will end soon, either in suicide or glorious redemption. Almost certainly suicide.
>> No. 11791 [Edit]
>>11789
Well, if not being able to get a job was the source of your depression then yeah, it's likely getting a job would help. For me it was a chemical thing. Mostly, anyway. I think. It's left me with a lot of doubt about myself and what kind of person I really am.
>> No. 11792 [Edit]
>>11786

what part of finding a job do you not understand? the concept is simple.
look for vacancies on the internet, send off applications (1 page resume with 1 page cover letter). look for vacancies in the newspaper. call the numbers. if you know people IRL, ask if they have any leads for you.
>> No. 11793 [Edit]
I agree with you. Yet, i'm trying to fix my life with my own means, but i would be nice to have help from the government. Right now i'm finishing highschool in a accelerated class that eats all my money (I work as a cashier in a shop)
>> No. 11795 [Edit]
I'm incapable of holding down a job that requires that I do anything, I'll eventually screw stuff up and be fired. and I'm to dumb for school. there's not much they can do to help me become a proper citizen.
>> No. 11808 [Edit]
What would have been nice was if high schools would have taught us those "common sense skills" that they expect us all to know, instead of expecting our parents to teach us (which didn't happen for me).
>> No. 11815 [Edit]
>>11808
There's actually a class for that here.

Except they only teach things that everyone does actually know. My class literally spent a week on "How to write your name".

If they could actually get the concept of that class down right, it'd be great.
>> No. 11817 [Edit]
Has anyone here tried to apply to some sort of trade job instead? I understand colleges may not be for everyone but it might be worth a try. A skilled tradesman can make good money and you can learn a useful skill. I went to my local union a month ago, had to take 2 reading & math tests and now I have an interview at end of this month. I'm still very nervous about it but I hope I get in and can start working. Or maybe you can try applying for one of those civil service jobs in your city?
>> No. 11818 [Edit]
>>11778
>military style boot camps

But I'm a current neet who was formerly in the military
>> No. 11819 [Edit]
That wouldn't even help me, I can't even *get* to the government offices to get money monthly because I'm too scared. I had a payment for one month then they expected me to get back to them and I couldn't do it so they cut me off.

>>11818
Same. I should have stayed in the military.
>> No. 11823 [Edit]
I would take a job for half the salary they would give anyone else, if only se they me as "that one guy just wants half of it? Go hire it, I don't care if he's an idiot and can't do anything right!"
>> No. 11828 [Edit]
>>11792
That's what I've been doing. I know I'm a tard, but I could only find the job listings in a newspaper a few times, and there were only like 7 jobs listed, all but one required experience and/or were for skilled workers. The other one was a scam.
>> No. 11837 [Edit]
>>11823
They'd probably be worried about a idiot who can't do anything right costing the company much more than it would to hire someone qualified for the position.
I once fucked up at a job that cost the company more than $100,000.
>> No. 11845 [Edit]
Honestly I think the government should simply pay for a certain number of people who are unemployable or close to unemployable to do work like cleaning up garbage, graffiti, etc. Also education should be more focused on simply getting people into good jobs. Anyone who actually wants to learn things can always do so in their spare time.
>> No. 11846 [Edit]
Go to the French Foregin Legion

Lol, seriously, being a NEET is a PRIVILEGE !

So be glad that you can be a NEET.
>> No. 11847 [Edit]
>>11846
Check your privelege, normal scum.
>> No. 11849 [Edit]
>>11847
Lol, you are the normal scum in disguise, you are the one who wants to be a normal sheeple.

I am a real NEET.
>> No. 11852 [Edit]
>>11792

I'm not the guy you're replying to, but I'm in basically the same situation. I'll just say that ALL of those things are FAR easier said than done. If you are capable of writing a cover letter (and not just staring at a blank page for three hours, suddenly forgetting how to write in your native language), putting together a resume that looks good and sounds convincing, and calling up complete strangers and asking them to hire you without wanting to crawl into the nearest hole and die, then you are in far better mental shape than I am.

Trust me, I get the overall concept of what you're saying, it's the execution that's impossible. It's like asking a paraplegic what's so hard about walking, even a baby can learn how to do it.
>> No. 11853 [Edit]
>>11852
And that is why I'm stuck too, the most I can go is filling out an application and sending it in and then I am forced by parents to annoy the shit out of the manager even though I know that person isn't even considering my worthless ass. There nothing to even tell him/her besides to ask that they consider me. All this does is make me look more pathetic to them and tell them that I'm a nagging loser. I can tell by their voice over the phone that they get annoyed too and I cringe with every sentence they say. Sometimes I'll even pretend I called and make up a story for my mother so she shuts up and I don't have to annoy someone to death. I have nothing to write about at all, so doing anything more than that is completely out of the question. And me just the fact that I want to work for a store is probably insulting to the manager when they take a look at my application. I swear they probably just laugh and throw it in the paper shredder instantly. This week is going to be another bitchy week of annoying the manager to death. One time though I actually made it to an interview but that experience so pathetic the person doing it actually started giggling at me probably thinking "This guy is so brain dead it's funny! I'll send him to the next person instead of kicking him out just so the other person working here has the pleasure of seeing how dumb he is!". I'm just a pest to everywhere I apply to.
>> No. 11855 [Edit]
>>11852
>Trust me, I get the overall concept of what you're saying, it's the execution that's impossible.

That isnt the impossible part. What makes it impossible is that for any job you apply for there will be dozens of other applicants with better skills and qualifications. Still, it can be done. I applied like this for years and usually failed hard whenever I would get an interview, eventually I got lucky and now I work full time.
>> No. 11861 [Edit]
...but it kind of has to.

If you're applying this from a socialist concept it would fail if only because what you say as basic is going to be interpreted as "cheap must have support".

Again see why not all people pursue trade schools. It's the psychological flaw of it's principle and in things not dealing with life or death like healthcare (and even with healthcare depending on the doctor-patient culture) you're talking about an institution where the worst of gov support is going to there, where society especially parents would induce guilt upon students to attend and in general you're dealing with forcing people to go to a place where they don't see the benefits of.

However if you can create/establish an institution where teachers need to trade between going to that place or going to a poor troublesome school for their year 1-3 training/teaching experience, this changes things around because now the instructors there have a certain incentive to view people as an alternative form of poor people which means now you have an actual school setting rather than a school excuse setting for the staff. That makes it more capitalist minded if only because the staff has to worry about their positions. Nothing revolutionary but at least you have a quality safety net. That is the thing that you need to start establishing the reputation of such a place.

The 2nd thing needed is to change the culture and the concept of what is employment 101. If you look at it from a socialist concept, then employment 101 will be as what the critics said. A far inferior place to learn how to get a job especially in countries with decent community colleges to begin with.

A capitalist mindset doesn't work here either because as the better this place goes, the more there's going to be a pyramid scheme to nab very special underdog stories to sell the place for future enrollments. Basically becoming a chartered public school functioning closer to a 3rd world private school.

You have to be libertarian about it. That is to say, you have to reform employment 101 from employment to employment mobility 101. You have to allow for courses that these people don't just have to learn but these people aren't able to acquire if they go the normal school route. Unpopular courses are a good start for this.

The reason for this are that unpopular courses may be unpopular because no one sees the opportunity for it but by opting for this route, instead of competing with schools, you are providing instead additional associated knowledge which would help boost new entrepreneurial ideas for many of these students. Will that guarantee employment? No.

It would guarantee mobility however for the first sets of students who could make those courses work because it provides them with a set of classmates that are potential "already trained" employees for their new idea.

The reason I say it has to be libertarian is because you can't build upon the success of one course or the self-capability of a set of students as that will make it vulnerable towards market factors such as the trickle down effect.

You want this place to be as mobile as possible and training people to be as mobile as possible and yes, initially you have to opt-in people, but the most important factor is that you have to redefine success, failure, employment, opportunities, metrics in order for both this place and the student to survive and grow.

If you're just treating this place as a meat shop, it's going to be a meat shop. If you're treating this place as a free prison with training, it's going to have close to the same failure rate as a public school.

It's also going to be very difficult to sell the success of this school long term both to it's provides (gov/investors/etc) and to future students coming in who will train themselves to dodge the lessons like how they try to pretend through anger management classes. The draconian staff is also going to become less draconian and just more stupid and robotic. None are what's going to preserve the school much less progress it.

You have to have a school that is able to prepare even the below average ones to want to be future staff for this school even if their ideas don't pan out. You have to have students trained in basic skills but with the associated knowledge of how to befriend and work together with their fellow classmates to utilize these projects. Again, mobility is very important. Even in the poorest places of Africa, if you can get a bunch of Africans to band together and try their luck in a country with more liberal minded people and far freer government intervening concepts, they have more chances of not wanting to return as NEETs even if they fail in their project if only because they have more reason to view cash beyond currency, jobs beyond corporate slot machines and ideas beyond mere holes that you have to fill correctly to get a business off.

It's a tough thing to pull off and just this reply is bound to tick someone off into accusing me of misrepresenting these political mindset but regardless of the difficulty that's what a place like this needs. It needs a free market thinking culture that, even if the actual place fails, you can train and regrow current students into a trailer for example or renting inconsistent rooms while continue the ongoing lessons in a standardized philosophy that's culturally organic, prone to mobility regardless of and especially in spite of failure and a staff that understands why that's necessary because if there's one thing that can separate this from other learning environments - it's that it's aimed at helping NEETs change their culture not necessarily aimed at helping the great and talented NEETS from finding their motivation to get themselves employed. That and that there are actual schools/trainings for the poor. It's not poverty that creates a NEET alone. It's different factors and if those factors aren't addressed, long term, it is going to produce non-NEETs who are non-NEETs for the wrong reasons. (i.e. they have the same NEET culture but they are not seen as one because they have and are doing jobs and work for the wrong reasons.)
>> No. 11865 [Edit]
>>11861
I don't understand a word you just typed.
>> No. 11866 [Edit]
Huh, I saw an ad for a clerk for election shit. Applied. Probably won't get it, but I'm hoping other people will be turned away by where it says that election day is a 14 hour day. Also, who do I put for references? I don't know anybody. I would prefer not to put my parents; I don't want them to know where I'm working, I never want to see them again.

Post edited on 17th Sep 2012, 5:12pm
>> No. 11867 [Edit]
And not to fucking mention all the shit that leads nowhere. Maybe they're harvesting clicks or something, it's fucking bullshit and pisses me the fuck off. I feel like I'm looking for an obscure torrent or something, and it feels just as hopeless.
>> No. 11868 [Edit]
>>11867
same, I sent in a bunch of resumes/emails to various job postings but all I got were these generic replies that asked me to sign up/register for something on shady websites
>> No. 11869 [Edit]
>>11865

I was approaching the topic from the how to and why not to do it like this approach. Not just from the what can it do to me or will it actually matter.

It may help to have a small bit of knowledge on the mess schools/other learning environments have failed/get stuck on.

Then again, it may not help because most of those mess come from people who have the most knowledge to argue against the solutions.

I also hinted to some of the basic phenomenon found in the Lost Decade: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Decade_(Japan)

It's basically a comment towards the strategic principle and philosophy needed to be the foundation of such a register/school/employment 101 seminar/whatever the final product is/whatever the final governing effect necessary for it to succeed long term is.
>> No. 11874 [Edit]
>>11869
it's like you actually thought I cared about any of it either.
>> No. 11878 [Edit]
>>11874

Of course. What's the point of posting here if you don't care?

Only lame trolls think Chans like this are worth trolling when there are juicier targets.

Everyone else is just trying to live and carry each other through the daily grind of life.
>> No. 11966 [Edit]
>>11861

Doing work for the wrong reasons is better than not doing work at all.
>> No. 11970 [Edit]
>>11966
No
>> No. 11991 [Edit]
Look, the only reason we have a society is because people are conditioned into believing such a thing exists. Now don't get me wrong, this isn't some shadowy, sinister plot. It's simply a fact. If people no longer desire to contribute to society, then society will obviously disappear.

So you are sent to schools where you are told that you need to go to a different school, then when you get there you are told you need to get to yet another school, then when you get there you are told you must get a career, then you have to climb through the ranks at your work, get married, have kids... it's a game of carrot-on-a-stick that finally ends when you're a tired-ass old man. Obviously this entire system is utterly ludicrous. There is no reason that children can't be taught standardised advanced mathematical, medical or engineering skills at a much earlier age as a matter of course. There's no reason that any of this has to be the way it is when we have the technology and resources to house and feed every single person. Conditioning is why things are the way they are.

Now obviously us outcasts know all this and consequently refuse to participate, largely because there is simply no point. Conditioning doesn't work on everybody and the government knows that. They have had the finest scientific minds studying human psychology for over a century, and believe me, we NEET's are not a 'problem'. They understand perfectly well what we are. They know that if they force us to work - us outcasts, not the gullible drunks - that we will simply refuse, self-sabotage and at worst resort to crime. They know all to well that we would rather be a criminal class than a slave class.

The point is this. The government is bribing us. They give us just enough to live by - which is all we want - and then leave us alone. In return we leave them alone, because we'd be a far more expensive problem if we were pushed. And that's it, the game of live. You do whatever you can to get by, desperately trying to avoid victimisation as much as you can. That's all it's ever really been about, and this is how we get by.
>> No. 11992 [Edit]
>>11991

I mean, think about it. They don't have to pay us anything. There are plenty of broke-ass niggas and hobos out there that the government isn't doing shit for. Hell, the only difference between us and them is tolerant parents. You think that if they stopped paying us that there'd be outrage, people marching in the streets? Of course not. Everybody hates us. The only people complaining would be us, the lazy, parasitic class 'that should just shut up and get a job'.

The government knows that if they shipped us off to the military that we would just shoot our officers in the back. They know that if they made us work that we would just burn down the workplace and start selling drugs, undercutting them in their own market. They know that if they tried to implement hard slavery that we would start killing them like fucking crazy.

This way is for the best. We keep our mouths shut, we give the general public something to grumble about instead of actual problems like corrupt politicians and the government gets to blame us for everybody's financial problems while stealing everyone's money.

Hey, I'm cool with it. It's the system baby. There's no escape. Don't try. Just play your role and everything will be fine. Sure, they'll fling some shit at us every now and again to try and shift attention away from some other bullshit they're trying to pull. But that's just our role to play, man. We give the people something to hate and we can take it because we don't really give a fuck. Not like the Jews, they're always complaining about discrimination. But trust me kids, welfare will never go away. It just works too well.
>> No. 11993 [Edit]
>>11992

Oh, and we tend to die relatively young because we're so damned unhealthy, which is handy. Plus we tend not to breed.

Utimately, the government would love to just exterminate us and be done with it. But as history shows, genocide doesn't usually go over too well. So they do the next best thing - use us. It's what they do best, it's WHY they're the government.

You brothers seriously need to chill. Stop worrying! You'll get to be a NEET for as long as you want to, and if you ever finally decide to move on, that's fine. There's a role for everybody to play in the system, tailored to suit all your neurotic little needs. Just relax and go with it.
>> No. 11996 [Edit]
>>11993
that's a very interesting way of looking at the situation.
>> No. 12060 [Edit]
>>11993
You really got hit the nail on the head with those lengthy posts. In a nutshell, it's all just "push a dog in a corner and it's going to fight back" so you just give it a treat so it goes away and no one gets hurt.
>> No. 12779 [Edit]
No, that's retarded.

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