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File 152963376791.jpg - (37.42KB , 930x523 , phone.jpg )
31640 No. 31640 [Edit]
People think tech is getting better. CPUs are faster, storage is cheaper, internet connections are faster. But I think it's getting worse.

I feel like the internet has lost its charm. It used to have a magical, positive, wild-west feel to it. Now it seems so commercialized, and you also have to be careful about what you post, since there's always a new flavor-of-the-month outrage issue.

Every site tracks you. Privacy is dead. You're expect to put more and more info online, yet there are tons of huge data breaches all the time.

If you post something that isn't politically correct, even if it's really mild, there are people who will try to doxx you, swat you, get you fired, publicly shamed, and so on. Twitter is especially bad about this. You can make an off-hand comment once and then a legion of angry people will try to ruin your entire life.

Everything is increasingly politicized now too. And now people who are at any political extreme will say shit like "everything is political" and "ignoring issues is tone deaf" so they're trying to convert neutral people to one side or another. The whole "you're either with us or against us" mentality is bullshit, but it's more pervasive than ever before.

But not just that, the internet is everywhere. It's not just confined to desktops and computer rooms. People are always on their phones. If you do or say something someone doesn't like, they can instantly record you and put it online, getting their followers to harass you.

But even aside from people harassing you, I just hate how everything gets posted online. You hang out with someone, then they take a selfie and you're in the background so your picture is online. Instantly. Maybe I don't like the way I looked at that particular moment. Maybe I don't want everyone knowing where I am and what I'm doing. But photo etiquette has shifted from it being rude to taking photos of people to being rude if you object to having your photo taken. It's like people think that you can't just hang out or go somewhere without documenting proof that you did it. People are creating their own dossiers. The NSA doesn't even need to exist. People are willingly posting all the intimate details of their life online, often completely publicly.

And not only that, but people get petty about stupid tech shit too. I have an iPhone. It's not the newest, but it still gets the latest iOS updates. But people have actually made fun of my phone before. It works just fine, doesn't have any cracks on the screen, still gets updates for the OS and apps, has enough storage for me, etc. But apparently phones are lame if you don't have the absolute newest ones. Culture and purpose have been replaced with disgusting hyper-consumerism.

A lot of this seems straight up dystopian and I hate this feeling.

Can you relate to this at all? What have your experiences with tech and the internet been like?
4 posts omitted. Last 50 shown. Expand all images
>> No. 31932 [Edit]
> to cover up that things have changed
I'm pretty sure that's just youtube trying to stay relevant and show people what's fresh cool new and trending, which is what generally people want.
>> No. 31935 [Edit]
Youtube's ranking algorithms are gamed to hell and back. They've changed it from returning what used to be relevant results to returning videos that their memechine learning system thinks will maximize addiction, watch time, and revenue.
>> No. 31936 [Edit]
File 154716771862.png - (0.97MB , 1773x1094 , Screenshot at 2019-01-10 19-46-39.png )
Use an element hider to get rid of them completely, been doing it for years. Was even able to get the front page completely blank except for the search bar.
>> No. 32722 [Edit]
I'm bumping this thread because I feel as though a lot of people on this site have the same mindset as OP but haven't found the proper thread to complain in.
All of that being said, I absolutely agree 100%. I can't tell you how stressful it is being an internet addict nowadays. You have to watch everything you post 24/7 or your life is over. Of course, after I saw these problems in society, I started to hang out in political circles and started seeing the exact same bullshit you mentioned. And then or course, I'm so tired of going to a gaming or anime community and someone is talking about politics, but when you tell them to cool it and just talk about hobbies, they plug their ears and scream "CENTRIST!!11!!". They keep mentioning that politics is so goddamn important and that we should be focused on it 24/7, but I can assure that not even people living in third world shitholes are obsessed with politics to this extent, and they are the ones who have more problems than us politically speaking.
Another thing I would like to mention is the culture of bullying that seems to have become normalized on the internet. Of course, being a dick on the internet and making fun of people is nothing new (hell I did a bit of it myself back in the day), but we are getting to a point where we are seeing things like legitimate threats of violence and doxxing becoming the norm. I will even go as far as to say that social media is partly to blame for the increase in school shootings. Back then, if you were being bullied at school, You were usually safe outside of school when you were with friends or engaging in hobbies at home. But nowadays, you get bullied at school, and then when you come home, your phone buzzes and you find that some dickwad took an embarrassing photo of you or leaked your home address and you are right back to where you were, but maybe ten times worse. So it wouldn't surprise me if more and more kids feel as though there only way out is to kill themselves and take a few people with them (not justifying the act of course).
You aren't the only one by the way, I am seeing the concept of neo-luddism gaining a bit of traction, and I'm even seeing some mainstream media outlets talking about the concept. It just goes to show that society in general is getting concerned over this very topic we are discussing now.
>> No. 32723 [Edit]
I know these issues exist, but they seem pretty overblown to me. I'm on the younger side for this site, and I don't notice it in my daily life. Don't use social media unless you have to. Don't use it to post anything personal if you do need it for work/school and max the "privacy" settings. Don't socialize with people that take selfies. Use burner emails for non-work related purposes.
>> No. 32724 [Edit]
>I'm on the younger side for this site
I'm 21 so we are probably not to far off in age. That being said, even if you don't see it in your daily life, that doesn't mean it isn't happening. Automation is creeping in and we are seeing things like depression linked to social media use. Hell, we are even seeing riots overseas due to online services like Uber. There is something going on, that is for sure.
>> No. 32727 [Edit]
File 156402074310.webm - (2.74MB , PC Barbarian vs Mage.webm )
In social media, the intolerant minority wins...
>> No. 32730 [Edit]
File 156402923435.jpg - (60.99KB , 650x488 , lain17.jpg )
This thread is essentially the complaints of social media users who insist on dragging their twitter & facebook world onto /tc/. I know all about the privacy issues on those other sites, thats why I don't use them.
If you know about the privacy problems and everything else that goes along with social media usage and you still insist on using that stuff and aren't technically knowledgeable enough to do it without exposing yourself personally, thats your own fault for failing to educate yourself. There is a very large contingent of internet users who are intelligent enough to do anything anonymously and all of the knowledge they have is freely available online.
If neo-luddites are gaining traction, thats because giving up entirely is less effort than reading the fucking manual. Nontechnical types will always be at a disadvantage online, if you're one of those people then just lol, because your willful ignorance will get you taken advantage of time and again.
>> No. 32737 [Edit]
I don't think you need to be a tech wizard to have common sense online. If a place sucks, avoid it.

Post edited on 25th Jul 2019, 1:44pm
>> No. 32804 [Edit]
I feel like I have a lot more free time in the day when I am not mindlessly surfing the web or video games. It’s just that I don’t have much else to do, as I don’t really like western books and LNs aren’t that good generally. Maybe I can put manga on my e-reader or something. Privacy feels more like a principals thing, as there are other powers that be spying on you besides your technology.
>> No. 32805 [Edit]
Neo-Luddism is more about caring about the environment, spirituality rather than privacy or plain technophobia.
>> No. 32826 [Edit]
File 156456944886.jpg - (1.18MB , 2546x3425 , 2f3982689ec2bf5fd8204b520a7950b816dc1474.jpg )
The neo-luddites were right about just about everything. The only thing they were really wrong about was the possibility of changing course. It's like speeding down a steep bluff that terminates in a sheer cliff, stop taking steps and you'll tumble down and break your crown anyways, but keep moving forward and you'll live another moment. Each move makes sense in the local moment, but look at the whole board and you'll see we'll lose the game. Step by sensible step.

Take privacy for instance. It's something that won't even exist in a few decades. Companies like f*c#book and the dummies who use it aren't just shooting themselves in the foot, they're screwing you over as well. All those pictures people share, all those videos, audio, gps coordinates, tower data, likes, habits, metadata and so on. It's a patchy -but growing- global surveillance network that increasingly allows predictions of behavior. The only reason that it hasn't yet been turned against people like us is that analyzing the so much data is slow and cumbersome work that still mostly needs people. That won't last. Building systems that can do the same autonomously and robustly is possible right now but costly. Going into the future costs will only fall, cost of compute will keep falling, better algorithms and techniques will be developed. FB has already said they intend to do as much, and you can be sure goverements are trying to do the same and worse.

It's not a problem solvable by just reading the manual. I use tor and I2P and GNUnet, encrypt all my shit with veracrypt and PGP, use virtualized sandboxed systems on trusted hardare, but even with all that I doubt that I am not leaving my fingerprints all over when I use the net. Even a relatively computer literate person like me can't be expected to even know what best practices are against states or corporations that have higher income than most states. Hell even this long winded post is probably giving away my identity. Identifying the author of a post was possible long ago through statistical methods, but these days the sensitivity of these techniques is much greater and more automated. I only post on places like this using anonymized means, but can I be sure that some other datapoint won't tie me back to this post and others? No, I can't and I can't think of any solution.

There was a good line in lain, when the knights have all been killed, the men in black are told something to the effect of "if you want to survive, all you need to do is go somewhere not covered by satellite or network" The point being no place like that really exists anymore.
>> No. 32827 [Edit]
Even if all of this becomes completely automated, it still requires ,energy, effort and organization. The whole thing will inevitably collapse under its own weight. Why even bother acting on this information in real life? How would they act on it? Eventually elites wont even need the masses, so why continue doing it?
>> No. 32833 [Edit]
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>It still requires energy, effort, and organization
True, but these things are already being expended on this task. Think about how much is already invested in government security apparatus, the NSAs and stasi and whathaveyou. Or how many people FB or goggle employs to do less sophisticated advertisement targeting. Now replace some of that with a more efficient automated system. They will get more bang for less buck. It will add complexity, but it will probably on balance reduce how much energy and effort needs to be spent for a given outcome to be achieved.

>Why even bother acting on this information in real life?
In the case of large companies, you're right they won't do much in real life, mainly it will be limited to manipulating you into lining their pockets. All the big tech companies are profitable almost exclusively because they have so far managed to do that better than anyone else. Sophisticated automated data could make such companies bottlenecks that can strongly manipulate people into not only sales, but also into distorting the entire market.
In the case of the government they'd act whenever they thought it would increase their stability. It's extremely unlikely they'll arrest every jay-walker or lolicon even if they could, because that would be a massive waste of time and effort. But certain types or classes of people, certain keystone people who drive social dynamics, those would be worth interfering with. The types who try to maintain privacy will be a small minority, one that will be watched closely.

>How would they act on it?
For the state it would most importantly be through traditional legal tactics and harassment, the courts that have always been used against the enemies of the state. The police and other armed civil forces are obvious methods as well. In another two decades or so you could also expect automated weaponry in some cases. The US has already killed citizens in war zones using missiles fired from drones, but future weapons will likely be smaller, closer range, and more targeted.

However the more interesting method will likely be through information manipulation using automated processes since those can scale to match the automated surveillance. Already much of the internet and the information that flows through it is controlled by simple algorithms. Sophisticated automated systems would be another step in this trend. For example many large companies are working on chatbots that can actually pass for human. Though they aren't there yet, recent advances in Natural Language Processing makes me think that in a decade or so it may be entirely possible to create bots that fool most people all of the time. It's already relatively easy to use extremely stupid bots to manipulate people and algorithms online. Now imagine a future where any rumor or hype for a product is as simple as renting server time and running a program. Other trends in this sort of tool are things like Generative Adversarial networks which are increasingly able to create realistic outputs like audio and video. Even old hat hacks like Man-in-the-middle and phishing attacks can become significantly more sophisticated if you know enough about your target. All of those sorts of tools and more will increasingly become capable of operating without a human making more than high level decisions and tweaks.

It's like the wired in SEL, if you can manipulate perceptions well enough people won't be able to tell your creations from reality. Control people's reality, and you can control behavior. Automated tools will increasingly be able to do this cheaply and at scale that humans likely won't be able to successfully defend against.

>Eventually elites wont even need the masses, so why continue doing it?
It's quite true they won't need us eventually, but until that point they will want to control us to their profit and manage risk. As long as we have any value, they'll obviously want to extract and secure it for themselves. And as long as we may end up aligned against their interests they'll want to manage that risk. For instance what if during the next economic downturn or economic depression if say the unemployed population went into revolt? Even if it isn't very likely and they they probably wouldn't win, it could still result in significant losses for some elites. Some of the them may even lose their fortunes or even their lives. Sure most of them probably wouldn't, and for every loser there would be a gainer, but without knowing the outcome they collectively wouldn't want to risk it. I am not saying that they'll rule over us forever with this technology, but that use it to tighten their grip on us right until they can finally throw us away.

Also, sorry if I'm aggressively ranting. I don't mean to argue or anything, just have a lot of opinions on the matter.
>> No. 32835 [Edit]
With technological development, the first thing people think about is how those developments can be used as weapons or tools of control. How those developments are used for defensive purposes is much less discussed. Even if you're right about you leaving some fingerprints despite all your precautions, is anybody able to benefit from those traces of your presence? Wont even better ways of protecting privacy be created? Aside from that, if ai really will be able to perfectly replicate humans, wouldn't everybody know it? Why would you trust anybody online if you know an online person's word is worth nothing?
>> No. 32837 [Edit]
File 15646062276.jpg - (428.32KB , 1920x2870 , city2018resize.jpg )
>Defensive purposes
It is true that there are attempts being made at this. However the balance of power is asymmetric in this case. The side with the most resources is going to be the attacker. Further in many of the uses of these sorts of technology success does not require that all attempts are successful, only some subset. If you block a million attempts, but the million and oneth gets through, you may be just as buggered.

> is anybody able to benefit from those traces of your presence?
Possibly but it is hard to quantify the risk. Big data is sort of like a mystery image jigsaw puzzle. Any piece may not actually let you know what you are looking at, but sometimes all it takes is one more piece to know what the whole is. Maybe this post could somehow provide the last bit of data needed to link me to something incriminating. Probably not though...

>Wont even better ways of protecting privacy be created
Unfortunately I don't think so. The current methods of protecting privacy are pretty much as good as they are going to get, as they are all in essence the same thing, encrypting and obfuscating data. However only some types of information can be well protected this way. Digital stuff can be made reasonably secure, but anything physical is nearly impossible. You can't really hide where you live, or where you drive in your car, or what in your DNA. Well you can try, but you won't have much success, and many of the ways of doing so are already illegal (hiding your license plates or your face for instance). Everything you do leaks some data, and the more data you have the more you can use it to reason about the data you still don't have. If people started all using the tools available to protect privacy they would probably be able to hide their communications and some other things. It would probably help a lot truthfully, but at the same time as long as other types of data are leaky and insecure it's going to be a losing battle.

> if ai really will be able to perfectly replicate humans, wouldn't everybody know it?
Maybe. There's plenty of interesting work going on in AI right now that most people know nothing about even though it's all public. A combination of choosing to keep a low profile and people's general disinterest can be powerful. It's also possible that it might be kept as a trade or state secret for a while after such a thing is developed.

>Why would you trust anybody online if you know an online person's word is worth nothing?
The problem is that you wouldn't necessarily have to trust anyone. Psychologically there are all sorts of ways to manipulate people who don't trust you. One example is that people tend to think something is more true, the more they hear it said. This is the case even when they are absolutely aware the information is false and that they are being manipulated. People also have a hard time maintaining distrust of systems that seem human, tending to anthropomorphize them. Even if everyone starts distrusting everything they see on the net, that may actually benefit the adversary. If you don't believe anything or trust anyone, it's difficult to actually change anything.

The best way to make sure one doesn't get manipulated by such theoretical systems would be to avoid using the internet for information or to connect with others, or at least only doing so with people they physically know and can verify. However I doubt that will happen, largely because people are already very invested in the existing internet ecology of social media, mass media, and mass connectivity. Though it is possible I suppose.
>> No. 32885 [Edit]
File 156496920244.jpg - (863.51KB , 3996x2250 , 1563162143886.jpg )
Something tells me the latest shooting is the last straw for imageboard culture.
>> No. 32886 [Edit]
What are you talking about? I'm out of the loop with that stuff.
>> No. 32887 [Edit]
This gives a good enough overview:

It's only a matter of time before one of the nations in its infinite wisdom passes some new regulation banning anonymous forums.
>> No. 32888 [Edit]
When will people learn that adults are acountable for their own actions? You can't blame a website for the crimes its users commit. When you do that, the meaning of adult becomes lost. Imageboards will be fine. They were always part of the counter culture and there will always be ways around the moronic regulations put in place by nanny states.
>> No. 32889 [Edit]
No offense, but it’s 8chan. If anything it’s a net-gain for imageboard culture.
>> No. 32890 [Edit]
I thought about saying this, but they'll probably just change hosts. Also, 8chan is great for containment. You wouldn't want them leaking out, right?
>> No. 32891 [Edit]
It's not a good precedent.
>> No. 32892 [Edit]
This is such a ridiculous attitude. Imageboards are open and anonymous, it's not possible to "contain" anyone. The only way to keep them out is either harsh moderation (costly) or just trying to make sure they don't know about your chan. All "containment" boards and chans do is make the second one impossible
>> No. 32897 [Edit]
If they're spending most of their time on one chan, and that chan disappears or changes in a way they can't tolerate, they move on to other places. It's happened before.
>> No. 32898 [Edit]
8chan is (at least temporarily) dead. Their hosting provider nixed service this morning. Unfortunate since there were some decent smaller boards there. It's probably going to become a cat and mouse game now.

Post edited on 5th Aug 2019, 12:03pm
>> No. 32899 [Edit]
I think 8chan facilitated echo chambers to a greater extent than other chans, because people could split off into their own boards. /leftypol/ was a pretty big board there, for example, so that's a whole group of Communists/anarchists/whatever who weren't present on its main /pol/ to push back on any of the neo-Nazi shit.
>> No. 32901 [Edit]
The death of 8chan means nothing to me. But threat against imageboards and imageboard culture worries me greatly. Will we see the final death of the old internet in the 2020s?
>> No. 32902 [Edit]
There was a thread about older otaku on /so/ too, the general consensus is maybe. But for example, sites like this has existed way longer than people thought they would so who knows.
>> No. 32903 [Edit]
Only because, for the most part, this site was made BY older otaku FOR older otaku. This may very well be the highest concentration of oldschool otaku in the west outside of some forums which may or may not still exist. I certainly wouldn't count places like 4/a/ and 4/jp/, or even most of the other alt/a/s. They are largely populated by "ironic weebs", and people of varying levels of that description.
>> No. 32905 [Edit]
>Will we see the final death of the old internet in the 2020s
I hope not, but maybe. I visited twitter recently just to see people's response to this (I don't visit twitter that often) and I was honestly horrified to see how many people were cheering on the death of 8chan and even calling for it's users to be doxxed and arrested. I know it's been said flippantly a lot but I am saying this with absolute sincerity: We are living in a dystopia.
>The death of 8chan means nothing to me
It should. 8chan's shutdown is merely the beginning of a slippery slope. Next, more and more tame websites will be shut down, until we get to a point where the only things available on the internet anymore, are teenage bloggers on youtube and social media websites. If we don't do something now, the elite will finally win and control the narrative. It seems the only hope we have now, is waiting for it all to collapse in on itself, which is honestly inevitable at this point.
>> No. 32908 [Edit]
I wouldn’t look at pearl clutching twitter users as an example of the trend. Not even Redditors like that crowd.
>> No. 32911 [Edit]
>horrified to see how many people were cheering on the death of 8chan
One thing that surprised me was that in all this discussion of 8chan – the cloudflare post, twitter, news articles, etc., – almost no one draws a distinction between 8chan's /pol/ board and the other boards. I had to double check that I wasn't being gaslit and thinking of some other fork. This sheer disregard to the collateral damage of taking down 8chan as a whole is perhaps more concerning than their views on the /pol/ itself.
>> No. 32912 [Edit]
I don't think they know there is a distinction, or are even all that clear on what the site is because all they've seen is the news articles. I browse some of the hobby boards and see very little of what people hate about that site there, so I don't like seeing people react that way, but it can't be helped.
>> No. 32913 [Edit]
I know what you mean. It genuinely left me feeling a bit distressed seeing those twitter replies. Those political nuts on twitter though probably wouldn't listen even if you explained to them the distinction.
>> No. 32950 [Edit]
8chan had some decent boards that were unfortunately crossboarded by /pol/tards a ton. Though, they all either are non-English or have this samey quality to them. 8/a/, for example, which has very strict rules which I like, doesn’t bother to ban the abusing of the quote function or non anime pictures. What is even the point then?
>> No. 32962 [Edit]
I wouldn't worry it. As long as boards dedicate themselves to niche interests and hobbies, the mainstream won't care, and people will be left in peace.

You shouldn't be surprised. Most people are ignorant about imageboards--even the ones who pride themselves in being "internet savvy." This wouldn't be a problem, of course, if it weren't for the fact that they talk about imageboards as if they were some authority on it. Reading some shit article from some shit publication doesn't make one knowledgeable about a myriad of websites, their culture, and their users. But, since these people have to have an opinion, and it has to be heard, they start typing their diatribes and their loquacious posts.

I remember /tech/ being good on one point, but I didn't use it often.
>> No. 32966 [Edit]
>I remember /tech/ being good on one point, but I didn't use it often.
8chan boards were decent in the first or so years but /tech/ very quickly got filled with paranoid extremists and paranoid criminals.
>> No. 33014 [Edit]
File 156602895017.jpg - (146.91KB , 850x1203 , ly.jpg )
Is 8ch still off-line?
>> No. 35560 [Edit]
Mobile smartphones gave internet to anyone anywhere and people are stupid.
>> No. 36750 [Edit]
Unfortunately true...
>> No. 37002 [Edit]
What is a good /tech/ at this point?
>> No. 37004 [Edit]
I assume you've already checked lainchan? There's also /g/ on nanochan, but I haven't tried it.
>> No. 37007 [Edit]
Nanochan is decent. It's 8chan's /tech/ exodus that started way before the site died, if that gives you any hint.
>> No. 37008 [Edit]
File 16080403731.jpg - (12.83KB , 184x255 , 1565432950472.jpg )
To be fair, it's not like the internet/what people did with tech was ever high art. Go back and read stuff from the 90s/2000s, it's a lot of stupid shit regurgitated, pages of flame wars and people looking for piracy.
We just got older.
>> No. 37011 [Edit]
It was more genuine. Back in the personal website days, people wrote sites because they were interested in a topic and wanted to share. Nowadays they do it for internet points, which brings in the attention-seeker demographic.
It also used to be more free than in-person communication because you could speak your mind without worrying about losing your job over it.
Above all, there was a lot of self-selection going on, in the 90s/early 0's only people who were somewhat competent at tech really used the internet. That doesn't mean there was no stupidity, but there was a different kind of it. For example, you rarely had to deal with people incapable of following simple instructions: If they had been, they wouldn't have been here in the first place.
The darknet has a lot of promise in getting back that old feeling, but we'll see.
>> No. 37012 [Edit]
In the personal website days, most sites made by average people were "personal pages". Just somewhere for people to post their pictures and blog posts, not inform anybody on esoteric subjects. They'd show it off to people, "look, I'm on the internet". Livejournal and myspace then hit the scene and offered a free alternative.
>> No. 37014 [Edit]
>Nowadays they do it for internet points
Nowadays they also do it for ad revenue. In addition to the demographic changes you mentioned where the tech-savvy base was gradually diluted, companies realized the value of having silo'd in systems and made every effort to usurp and control the communication platforms. And the people went along with it: first those less tech-savvy who were wooed by the ease of use and rounded edges, and then eventually even the tech-savvy were forced to concede and move to discord/twitter/whatever.
>> No. 37042 [Edit]
> is decent.
decent may be an overstatement. I just checked it out, and it's not not some fabled eden. The lounge board is mostly filled with talk of 3D, and /g/ is underwhelming in the breadth and depth of topics talked about. The posters are also nearly indistinguishable from those on current imageboards, so if you're hoping to escape the lingo and image macros that have taken root on those boards, then it's not much of a panacea.
>> No. 37043 [Edit]
File nano_s.pdf - (867.57KB )

E.g. attached is a screencap of what was probably the most interesting thread (also relevant to this thread); some good thoughts there, but also a lot of noise.
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